Political Digression Thread -- Save UP! Move the politically focused stuff here

[davidclt]

14 hours ago, RANYC said:

We've got all these needs and shortfalls as a state, and just read that the most recent budget is phasing out the corporate income tax and reducing individual income taxes over several years.  The state is booming with current rates, why are we cutting taxes?

Moving my response to the Political Digression Thread. The Republican Party has claimed for years that government doesn't work. Now they're cutting it to the bone, selling off functions previously handled by government as kickbacks for rich donors and proving that they were right, government doesn't work because they're ensuring it doesn't.

Are there things they could do better? Sure! A trip to the DMV is an exercise in misery (it's also a function they've outsourced). Funding transport infrastructure in NC has always been a $h!tshow with legislators of both parties shoveling cash to their pet projects. Mental health care in our state (outsourced), charter schools (outsourcing education) . . . we're headed for a world of hurt.

[deleted account]

1 hour ago, TGIBridays said:

Oh man, I would love to... He's my rep as well. Cynthia Wallace actually got a higher percentage than I thought she would (44.4%), but Bishop raised over $4 million while Wallace only raised a bit over $800,000 (Open Secretes Source).  That's a massive disadvantage.  I get his weekly emails and it's just a mess of the latest GOP lies and talking points. He's as bad as Cawthorn, except without any of the charisma/public appeal.

Dan McCready was the best chance we had in the 9th and he barely lost twice (he may have actually won the first time but the party always complaining about voter fraud was once again the culprit in this instance). I don't think Bishop can be beaten in the next election (which will probably be good for Republicans unfortunately, largely because of the craziness (lesser so but still) of Democrats and the incompetence of Biden).  We need better options and an electorate that isn't blindly partisan and stupid.  I'm not at all hopeful. Today, the national Republican party is completely unprincipled/insane and Liz Cheney (!) is who passes as principled and reasonable in the party. And Democrats are too damn woke (among other things) for their own good. God help us.

[kayman]

1 minute ago, JBS said:

Dan McCready was the best chance we had in the 9th and he barely lost twice (he may have actually won the first time but the party always complaining about voter fraud was once again the culprit in this instance). I don't think Bishop can be beaten in the next election (which will probably be good for Republicans unfortunately, largely because of the craziness (lesser so but still) of Democrats and the incompetence of Biden).  We need better options and an electorate that isn't blindly partisan and stupid.  I'm not at all hopeful. Today, the national Republican party is completely unprincipled/insane and Liz Cheney (!) is who passes as principled and reasonable in the party. And Democrats are too damn woke (among other things) for their own good. God help us.

I don't know about that.  With the right resources and a strong Democratic candidate NC-9 along with a couple other districts could be flipped. Bishop isn't politically invincible. The fact that a relatively new to the political scene black female candidate like Cynthia Wallace was a formidable opponent in 2020 shows that the only way Bishop would continue to win is via gerrymandering.  The pandemic caused depressed turnout in NC-9 in 2020.  NC GOP has known this for awhile now hence why they drew the court-contested maps now. 

[deleted account]

Just now, kayman said:

I don't know about that.  With the right resources and a strong Democratic candidate NC-9 along with a couple other districts could be flipped. Bishop isn't politically invincible. The fact that a relatively new to the political scene black female candidate like Cynthia Wallace was a formidable opponent in 2020 shows that the only way Bishop would continue to win is via gerrymandering.  The pandemic caused depressed turnout in NC-9 in 2020.  NC GOP has known this for awhile now hence why they drew the court-contested maps now. 

I certainly hope you are correct, I'll be holding my nose and voting Democrat.

[kayman]

1 minute ago, JBS said:

I certainly hope you are correct, I'll be holding my nose and voting Democrat.

Well remember to bring 4 more Democratic voters with you when you do

[davidclt]

59 minutes ago, JBS said:

Democrats are too damn woke (among other things)

What does this mean? Inquiring minds want to know?

[15895]

I am far from woke, super politically incorrect, I really don’t care about gender identity, (identify however you want - I truly, don’t care) etc. 

And I’d consider myself pretty far to the left within the Democratic Party.

Wokeness doesn’t bother me because I’m not obsessed with transgender people using the bathroom they identify with whereas some, that’s a HUGE issue for them. The off chance some over weight woman at a Texas Road House in Iowa has to be in a stall next to a transgender woman literally consumes some people. I personally would find it slightly odd (wouldn’t care though) if a transgender woman used a male bathroom as opposed to the female bathroom.

I’m not obsessed with the thought that k-12 kids (of which I don’t have) are secretly being taught Critical Race Theory in Virginia even though it’s not taught. And that was like. A #1 issue in the Virginian elections (CRT) for Republican voters and it fired them up. 

I care about sustainability, education, environmentalism, mobility, urban issues, hospitals, libraries, attracting good jobs, etc. That’s why I’m Democrat. I could imagine, Charlotte and Raleigh would be better off if the post-tea party GOP didn’t have a stranglehold on the state. 

Edited January 7, 2022 by AirNostrumMAD

[deleted account]

20 hours ago, davidclt said:

What does this mean? Inquiring minds want to know?

Here are just a couple examples (there are many I could send) of excessive "wokeness". The second is particularly egregious and I encourage you to Google his story for even more context:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/613615/

[Durhamite]

2 hours ago, JBS said:

Here are just a couple examples (there are many I could send) of excessive "wokeness". The second is particularly egregious and I encourage you to Google his story for even more context:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/613615/

This is simply another term or word that right wing zealots has taken hostage that has nothing to do with what it means.  This is what they do…contort injustice  awareness to create fear of absolutely nothing.  They are so accustomed to getting away with saying and doing anything that when the pendulum slides any small measure the other way, it creates fear….God knows no way society or the justice system treat you unfairly. Well, welcome to the party, pal.

Real talk, Black folk are on egg shells all day, everyday…365/24/7.  That wrong look, word, etc at work or anywhere can go sideways quick.  All it takes is a “Karen” to say is he was looking at me funny and your ass is fired, arrested, anything. End of discussion.  

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Durhamite

[kermit]

8 hours ago, JBS said:

Here are just a couple examples (there are many I could send) of excessive "wokeness". The second is particularly egregious and I encourage you to Google his story for even more context:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/613615/

I completely agree that the two examples discussed in the Atlantic article are reprehensible and should never happen.  That said, I am not sure I would consider such actions to be the sole domain of the political left.  Taking nothing away from the examples, I think its important to point out a couple of things about the topic:

First, the media, in particular the "news" machines on the right are very interested in exaggerating the significance of this sort of behavior. These stories certainly get eyeballs and galvanize opposition. Having said that, as someone who works in a place that most on the right would consider to be at the center of 'wokeness' I see very few (none actually) examples of any retribution for speech happening in my workplace. I do see civil discussion, some debate and a little bit of shouting, but never any destructive efforts between individuals when they disagree about culture war issues like these. This is certainly not meant to suggest such things never happen, but in my experience their frequency is greatly exaggerated in political and social media.

Second, from my perspective, I find the right to actually be the worst offenders in terms of the frequency and severity of thought policing. As cited on the previous page of this thread, the right is quite happy to use the machinery of the state to punish those who disagree with them (e.g. Dan Bishop's threats to businesses earlier this week that they had better contribute to the GOP 'or else'. see also critical race theory legislation, see also Colin Kappernick, see also Nikole Hannah-Jones at Chapel Hill). I rarely see these sorts of actions from elected democrats. I can't say the same for the politicians on the right.

I am not saying that any of this behavior is excusable, but, from my perspective, the frequency of bad thought police behavior is exaggerated and the suggestion that only democrats are guilty of it is misplaced. 

Edited January 9, 2022 by kermit

[deleted account]

15 hours ago, kermit said:

suggestion that only democrats are guilty of it is misplaced. 

That certainly wasn't my suggestion, at least not intentionally. Republicans in the Trump era are the biggest snowflakes ever, regularly inventing controversies and reasons to be offended. Hell, they've been fighting the "war on Christmas" for a decade and actually believe that straight white Christian men are persecuted (GMAFB!). Republicans will never be an option for me again but there are also many more examples of left cancellation that are tiresome and unjustified. I only provided those examples in response to a request. My point all along was that I was voting for Democrats but they weren't making it easy on me, a center right independent. 

I'll add that I could literally not care less if people agree with me/my opinions.  I'm surprised that a generally conservative guy saying he's voting for Democrats but not loving it was met with anything other than enthusiasm from the left leaning members of this board. That's no way to attract voters folks...

Edited January 9, 2022 by JBS

[deleted account]

15 hours ago, kermit said:

rarely see these sorts of actions from elected democrats.

To be clear, I vehemently disagree with this.

[kayman]

https://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/topic/44383-misc-uptown-projectsnews/page/269/#

@Spartan Honestly, CATS, Charlotte Water, and CRTPO (Charlotte urbanized area metropolitan planning organization (MPO)) are the only entities that need to be independent of COC now. As of now all these entities have primary service or coverage areas well beyond the City of Charlotte municipal boundaries. All these entities have major transparency, responsiveness, accountability, and regional representation, and trust issues with the citizenry and elected officials outside of the City of Charlotte (COC). CATS services extend into Rock Hill, another state.  Charlotte Water provides water to all of Mecklenburg County.  CRTPO is the regional transportation planning responsibilities for all of Mecklenburg and Iredell counties and most of Union County but staffed by COC housed in the Charlotte Planning Design &Development department (Charlotte PD&D).   Also, the Charlotte urbanized area extends well into South Carolina yet there are planning agreements in place to prohibit cohesive regional transportation planning with SCDOT because CRTPO is seen as "a City of Charlotte entity". CRTPO likely needs to merge with Centralina Regional Council, the regional planning and coordination council of governments, to allow more impartial regional transportation planning along with regional land use planning bodies like most other MPOs have in other major Southern cities (see the Atlanta Regional Commission, Greater Nashville Regional Council , North Texas Council of Governments (Dallas-Fort Worth), Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments, Hampton Roads Planning District Commission houses the Hampton Road Transportation Planning Organization, and Greater Houston-Galveston Area Council which houses the Transportation Policy Council of Greater Houston).

 

They should be more inclusive of the adjacent municipalities in the representation and decision-making as they already pay for these services and activities. 

Charlotte Fire Department primarily serves the City of Charlotte with reciprocity agreements with adjacent municipalities for major emergencies so I'm not sure why you mentioned them. The park & recreation and MEDIC are departments of the Mecklenburg County government. There have practically no real problems have been expressed by the public with these arrangements. 

Edited January 11, 2022 by kayman

[deleted account]

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/01/16/adams-new-york-city-council-527151

[Madison Parkitect]

8 hours ago, JBS said:

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/01/16/adams-new-york-city-council-527151

Their City Council is 51 people? How does anything ever get done?

[JRCLT]

Their City Council is 51 people? How does anything ever get done?

Well we have 7 and they have 9x the population so if you do the math it makes sense in the number of people each council member represents. here it hovers roughly around 120,000-126,000. With 51 member and a population ~8.4 million that would leave around 164,000 people per council member. It gets much harder to represent a lot of people with one person. That is the reason we have councils after all. 51 members is a lot, but so is the city’s population.

[kermit]

I'll admit they are not the most objective of pollsters, but it appears that even 75% of NC republicans would like to get their (legal) smoke on. Seems like even the base wants the  yall'qaeda to get out of the way of legalization.

Edited January 19, 2022 by kermit

[videtur quam contuor]

This is an easy win for democrats running in NC. Tax sales, Free money!! Tough for republicans as their issues are primary contests where the 25% not in favor (on this poll) are the ones which will strike you with lightning and bury your ashes.

[videtur quam contuor]

Using these data:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1103688/coronavirus-covid19-deaths-us-by-state/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/

and knowing that deaths from Covid were disproportionately older citizens who are also disproportionately voting republican one wonders if Covid fatalities have skewed swing states such as AZ, GA, NV, PA, a bit to the left. Most states are reliably R or D so deaths not meaningful for voting patterns in statewide offices. FL and OH maybe, though unlikely. NC certainly not*. Disregarding in-migration and other factors that affect voting results.

Also, how much has Covid affected overall census prediction models which were based on mid 2020 surveys with quite significant excess death numbers since that time?

*Presidential certainly not, though other state offices perhaps.

Edited February 3, 2022 by tarhoosier

[deleted account]

Apparently liberals (!) agree that Democrats have moved too far to the left (at least based on recent elections and the right wing New York Times):

https://messaging-custom-newsletters.nytimes.com/template/oakv2?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20220217&instance_id=53470&nl=the-morning&productCode=NN&regi_id=165140853&segment_id=83041&te=1&uri=nyt%3A%2F%2Fnewsletter%2F262c18f8-f6a4-5c48-8ac9-b30c43a8365a&user_id=8de7b42f62eef28dcda56aa17229e209

FWIW, this newsletter is free and it is awesome. Great info recently on why both parties are insane on reaction to Covid. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by JBS

[LKN704]

I'm not positing a solution, but I am attempting to explain what I see as the problem with the Dems today:

The issue (as I see it) is that the Democrats are essentially trying to be multiple things at once. That's nothing new. The Democratic party is nothing but a coalition of different groups all trying to get their agenda across. It's extremely hard for Democrats as a whole to rally behind and get excited about one single candidate (though I believe Obama was able to overcome this). There is no magic issue that every single Democrat in America today can agree on. The Democratic Party as a whole couldn't figure out how to run a lemonade stand...let alone a government. 

Conversely, the Republican Party is much more homogenous. There are millions of single-issue voters (Guns, abortion, etc) in the GOP that frankly don't exist in the Democratic Party, and it's easy to find a candidate that checks off all of those issues.

People seem to forget/be misinformed, that we do not have a left-leaning party in the United States. The Democratic Party is nothing more than a Centrist party. Every other Anglo-Western Democracy has a left-leaning party: Labor Party (AU), Labour Party (UK), Labour Party (NZ), NDP + Liberal Party (Canada). 

I find it amusing that internationally, the Democratic Party is a member of Progressive Alliance (together with the above mentioned foreign political parties) but when you look at the Democratic platform, it is much more ideologically aligned with say the center-right Liberal Party of AU than the Labor Party. 

The frustration that centrists and independents have is the same frustration I have with the Dems. I am extremely far-left (think mandatory board-level employee representation on corporations, much more progressive tax structure, complete overhaul of the criminal justice system and abolishment of the death penalty, cutting our ridiculous military budget that feeds into the military industrial complex and diverting the funds towards social programs, etc) and there is no where for me to go when voting but the Democratic Party.

Of course any candidate or ballot-issue that had to do with "defunding the police" got rejected by voters. No one is or was advocating for the complete abolition of police forces, but rather redirecting some of the funds away from the police force and delegate certain police responsibilities to other government entities. 

Another issue: we are essentially witnessing the creation of two different countries (culturally speaking) within the US and our current political system is not designed for such a cultural rift. 

The map below depicts "Jesusland" (in red) and "the United States of Canada" (in blue). It's satire of course, but one who lives in a blue state (especially along the coast) has almost nothing in common with someone who lives in Middle America and vice-versa...not only just politically speaking but culturally.

A funny (but sad) example...I was on a work trip pre-pandemic to Wichita, KS (a place I hope to never have to visit again) and I went to a bar near the hotel one night, and started talking to these two couples who seemed nice.  We got to talking about favorite types of food somehow and I brought up mine was either Iranian or Ethiopian, and how I loved living in DC because there's great access to both. The response from both couples surprised and disturbed me; one didn't know Ethiopia had a cuisine (they literally thought that all African countries had the same cuisine) and the other didn't know what Ethiopia was (I remember one distinctly saying "It's a country?").  Both couples didn't think it would be appropriate to have partake in a cuisine (Iranian) from a country that wasn't our ally.

[deleted account]

2 hours ago, LKN704 said:

There are millions of single-issue voters (Guns, abortion, etc) in the GOP that frankly don't exist in the Democratic Party, and it's easy to find a candidate that checks off all of those issues.

I'm clearly outnumbered as a center right Trump hating independent. That said, y'all say some...interesting things. Republicans (who, for the record, I detest) are single issue on abortion and guns (which are two issues, needless to say) but Democrats aren't similarly "single issue" on the same two topics? I definitely know more pro-choice Republicans than pro-life Democrats. Democrats are more hostile to the rare pro lifers in their party than Republicans are to those who support abortion rights in their party (see Bob Casey in PA). Every time Jon Stewart or Bill Maher say something remotely questioning Democrat groupthink there are thousands of tweets from Democrats denouncing them. I would enthusiastically support a Stewart/Maher ticket in 2024 but Democrats today would view them as far too conservative. Both parties and their partisans are nuts. I do (sincerely) applaud you for responding though and not just tagging my comment with confused emojis like some of the cowards on this board. 

[LKN704]

59 minutes ago, JBS said:

 but Democrats aren't similarly "single issue" on the same two topics? I definitely know more pro-choice Republicans than pro-life Democrats. Democrats are more hostile to the rare pro lifers in their party than Republicans are to those who support abortion rights in their party (see Bob Casey in PA).

First I want to say I personally detest using the term "pro-life" as it is hypocritical but for the purposes of this argument I will continue to use it. If I could define the term myself, I would have it mean someone who is against abortion, but also against capital punishment, and for paid family leave, universal health care, universal child care, etc.

There are huge swaths of Democrats (especially in Long Island +  Downstate NY and Massachusetts) that are diehard, blue to the bone Democrats but vehemently pro-life. Very common in Catholic circles, especially in Latinx and Italian-American communities. 

[deleted account]

24 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

First I want to say I personally detest using the term "pro-life" as it is hypocritical but for the purposes of this argument I will continue to use it. If I could define the term myself, I would have it mean someone who is against abortion, but also against capital punishment, and for paid family leave, universal health care, universal child care, etc.

There are huge swaths of Democrats (especially in Long Island +  Downstate NY and Massachusetts) that are diehard, blue to the bone Democrats but vehemently pro-life. Very common in Catholic circles, especially in Latinx and Italian-American communities. 

I'm not fond of the term either.

I'm not saying you're wrong about Massachusetts since I have relatives there who generally fit the description. But I find it interesting that both recent Republican Governors there (Charlie Baker and Mitt Romney) were for abortion rights when running and in office. Republicans supported them in the primary but they'd have had no chance with Democrats in the general if they opposed abortion rights. Romney of course was lying (he's Mormon and has since been stridently anti abortion) but their election indicates that Republicans will occasionally consider pro choice candidates and Democrats will ONLY consider pro choice candidates. Larry Hogan in Maryland is also pro choice. Aside from Bob Casey in PA, which Democrat statewide officeholders are anti abortion? Even Republicans aren't dumb enough to believe Trump is "pro life"...wait, maybe they are.

[TGIBridays]

7 hours ago, LKN704 said:

 If I could define the term myself, I would have it mean someone who is against abortion, but also against capital punishment, and for paid family leave, universal health care, universal child care, etc.

Hey! That's me! And also why I'm registered independent. My views are definitely more nuanced than just that distillation, but over the years I've drifted from being pretty stereotypically "pro-life" to being broadly pro-life as described here. I would add in investing heavily in sex education and access to contraceptives to that already overly long descriptor.

But like you said, this means I am mostly voting for democrats these days and not just because of the abortion issue.