Political Digression Thread -- Save UP! Move the politically focused stuff here

[Richhamleigh, DC]

4 hours ago, JBS said:

1. Yes

2. Some Democrats' stance on crime.  Do some reading on Gascon and then tell me you don't think his policies are pro-criminal. Even the accused in this case mocked the lack of consequences for his crimes. I'm against the death penalty and support bail and criminal justice reforms. But, the policies of several prominent Democrat District Attorneys in "liberal" cities appear to be contributing to violent crime trends in several major cities. Gascon is in liberal LA and is potentially fighting his second recall in office. If you don't think that these crime trends and Democrats response to them are pushing moderates to the Republican Party you are lying to yourself. 

 

3 hours ago, Madison Parkitect said:

I don't really believe crime trends are what is driving people to a racist, science-denying, Trumpist death cult. Reallocating police resources and looking at justice reform as a way to holistically improve society gets turned into "Democrats are soft on crime and every transgender person is going to molest your kids" by the right-wing and far-right-wing media, and that message is attractive to both fascists and people who don't take the time to really understand what these leftist policies are proposing. The argument "look, you're the one proposing these slightly left-of-center policies that work well in other countries, it's your fault I'm driven to supporting fascism, racism, and an attempted violent overthrow of the government" infuriates me. It's insane.

Anyway, beyond that, how is the Democratic party leftist? Police and military funding is increasing, student loans are not being cancelled, kids are being put back into poverty... if that's leftist %I guess I'd hate to see what centrist is.

Based on data compiled by the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) program, it found that while Black people make up 13% of the U.S. population, they were 33% of persons arrested for non-fatal violent crime (NVC), which includes rape, robbery, aggravated assault, and other assaults. Black people were 36% of those arrested for serious non-fatal violent crimes (SNVC), including rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

Similarly, Hispanics make up 18% of the US population and were 21% of those arrested for serious non-fatal violent crimes. Whites, who are 60% of the population, were 46% of persons arrested for non-fatal violent crimes, and 39% of those arrested for serious non-fatal violent crimes.

The designation “Black” and “white” often did not include those who are Hispanic. In 9% of single-offender incidents and 12% of multiple-offender incidents, the victim was unable to tell whether the offender was Hispanic.

The study compared the UCR statistics with those from the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS).  Whereas the UCR relies on reports of criminal arrests submitted by law enforcement officials to the FBI, the 2018 NCVS was based on interviews from 151,055 U.S. households. Thus, the NCVS identifies crimes that are not reported to law enforcement. In the 2018 NCVS, Blacks accounted for 29% of violent crime perpetrators in 35% of the violent crimes reported to police. By comparison., the UCR statistics showed Blacks were 33% of all people arrested for violent crimes.

I now live in Durham since the death of my husband.  The City is a majority non-Black.  It is controlled by Black citizens from the Mayor to the Police Chief to the City Manager.  The City Council is majority Black; there are zero Whites on the Council.  The overwhelming amount of crimes committed in Durham are by Black humans.  But, we can't talk about it.

Durham is not a city where Black residents are not in positions of power.  

An honest discourse about race in America must include an acknowledgement of responsibility.  Blaming others isn't productive nor is it even true.  Let's have a real discussion about culpability that doesn't include generalizations or histrionics.  

Edited February 22, 2022 by Phillydog

[deleted account]

24 minutes ago, Phillydog said:

 

Based on data compiled by the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) program, it found that while Black people make up 13% of the U.S. population, they were 33% of persons arrested for non-fatal violent crime (NVC), which includes rape, robbery, aggravated assault, and other assaults. Black people were 36% of those arrested for serious non-fatal violent crimes (SNVC), including rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

Similarly, Hispanics make up 18% of the US population and were 21% of those arrested for serious non-fatal violent crimes. Whites, who are 60% of the population, were 46% of persons arrested for non-fatal violent crimes, and 39% of those arrested for serious non-fatal violent crimes.

The designation “Black” and “white” often did not include those who are Hispanic. In 9% of single-offender incidents and 12% of multiple-offender incidents, the victim was unable to tell whether the offender was Hispanic.

The study compared the UCR statistics with those from the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS).  Whereas the UCR relies on reports of criminal arrests submitted by law enforcement officials to the FBI, the 2018 NCVS was based on interviews from 151,055 U.S. households. Thus, the NCVS identifies crimes that are not reported to law enforcement. In the 2018 NCVS, Blacks accounted for 29% of violent crime perpetrators in 35% of the violent crimes reported to police. By comparison., the UCR statistics showed Blacks were 33% of all people arrested for violent crimes.

I now live in Durham since the death of my husband.  The City is a majority non-Black.  It is controlled by Black citizens from the Mayor to the Police Chief to the City Manager.  The City Council is majority Black; there are zero Whites on the Council.  The overwhelming amount of crimes committed in Durham are by Black humans.  But, we can't talk about it.

Durham is not a city where Black residents are not in positions of power.  

An honest discourse about race in America must include an acknowledgement of responsibility.  Blaming others isn't productive nor is it even true.  Let's have a real discussion about culpability that doesn't include generalizations or histrionics.  

I'm the wrong person to respond to this (as a white male) but that's never stopped me before. The difficulty in forming conclusions on racial crime statistics is that the "playing field" is not level. I'm not necessarily excusing Black males for committing a disproportionate amount of violent crime but there are reasons for it. Following reconstruction, blacks were discriminated against to such an extent (far beyond Jim Crow laws) that they literally were barred from participating in society in many ways. This impacted their income, where they could live, the education they had access to and ultimately what their families looked like. That lack of opportunity in minority neighborhoods led to higher crime rates from desperate people who felt they had nothing to lose. That continues today. White privilege is a very real thing and I never had to deal with the institutional racism that people of color still experience every day. So, even in a city like Durham with many Black leaders, that long term multigenerational discrimination and racism has a direct correlation to racial crime statistics. Not to mention, the bias in jurors carefully selected by white prosecutors, the inequitable access to quality legal representation,  etc., etc. This is wildly oversimplified and I'm sure I misstated something (apologies if I inadvertently offend anyone on a sensitive topic). My point is that I don't think it's fair to compare statistics based on race since I'm confident that circumstances and not race are the reason for the discrepancy. If whites were enslaved and treated as Blacks have been over the years, I suspect the statistics would reflect a white population that was disproportionately responsible for violent crime. 

[allthingsplanes]

^ This.  What an amazingly good, well thought out post.

[JRCLT]

Truly the stereotype above crime in the black community has been over sensitized and truly disproportionate. Though I’d say that is a product of history and oppression as to why the African American people have been pushed so far into poverty disproportionately, or rather barred from opportunity and thereby wealth. Crimes associated with “thugs” or the fear mongering perpetuated within society for decades or perhaps centuries are simply crimes anyone would do regardless of race or ethnicity if our in a situation of desperate need whether that be financial or other surrounding pressures within society and in the family unit. (Sure there are outliers, but there outliers in everything). Sadly history has a perpetual and lasting effect on the future and for that fact we may not have to look any further than the past couple of years and many more examples of how history shapes the future. That including the conscious; unconscious; ignorant; and or but not limited to manipulated thoughts and actions by society. Hopefully a century from now things are very different for the better. Hopefully we will be in a better place as social and economic mobility as well as reform have taken root over years and years. I hope that we as human beings can understand and empathize with each other to work together for a better future for everyone. It is unimaginable what we can accomplish when we consider each other and also learn to live alongside each other. There’s a lot of disregard for other people other than ourselves and our family and friends in this country which bothers me. We truly cannot survive without others independently and we rely on one another. The least we can do to “thank” each other for what we do is mutual respect and acknowledgment.

(I know a lot of people don’t know the extent and consequences of their actions and words, but they most definitely causing long reaching and rippling effects throughout our society and the world).

This thread has filled up quickly and I guess that is because we are frustrated these days and want to see positive change and solve issues, etc. it has become an outlet. So this was my “little” rant/thoughts.

[Richhamleigh, DC]

10 hours ago, JBS said:

I'm the wrong person to respond to this (as a white male) but that's never stopped me before. The difficulty in forming conclusions on racial crime statistics is that the "playing field" is not level. I'm not necessarily excusing Black males for committing a disproportionate amount of violent crime but there are reasons for it. Following reconstruction, blacks were discriminated against to such an extent (far beyond Jim Crow laws) that they literally were barred from participating in society in many ways. This impacted their income, where they could live, the education they had access to and ultimately what their families looked like. That lack of opportunity in minority neighborhoods led to higher crime rates from desperate people who felt they had nothing to lose. That continues today. White privilege is a very real thing and I never had to deal with the institutional racism that people of color still experience every day. So, even in a city like Durham with many Black leaders, that long term multigenerational discrimination and racism has a direct correlation to racial crime statistics. Not to mention, the bias in jurors carefully selected by white prosecutors, the inequitable access to quality legal representation,  etc., etc. This is wildly oversimplified and I'm sure I misstated something (apologies if I inadvertently offend anyone on a sensitive topic). My point is that I don't think it's fair to compare statistics based on race since I'm confident that circumstances and not race are the reason for the discrepancy. If whites were enslaved and treated as Blacks have been over the years, I suspect the statistics would reflect a white population that was disproportionately responsible for violent crime. 

I appreciate your thoughtful contribution but it's a very Southern perspective and the generalization about "white privilege" utterly ignores the suffering of Southern and Eastern European immigrants, Jews, and homosexuals to name just a few.  Categorically dismissing the de facto Jim Crow laws and practices, the urban renewal projects that destroyed (white) neighborhoods is the problem and impediment to an honest conversation about equality.  

[Madison Parkitect]

15 hours ago, JBS said:

I'm the wrong person to respond to this (as a white male) but that's never stopped me before. The difficulty in forming conclusions on racial crime statistics is that the "playing field" is not level. I'm not necessarily excusing Black males for committing a disproportionate amount of violent crime but there are reasons for it. Following reconstruction, blacks were discriminated against to such an extent (far beyond Jim Crow laws) that they literally were barred from participating in society in many ways. This impacted their income, where they could live, the education they had access to and ultimately what their families looked like. That lack of opportunity in minority neighborhoods led to higher crime rates from desperate people who felt they had nothing to lose. That continues today. White privilege is a very real thing and I never had to deal with the institutional racism that people of color still experience every day. So, even in a city like Durham with many Black leaders, that long term multigenerational discrimination and racism has a direct correlation to racial crime statistics. Not to mention, the bias in jurors carefully selected by white prosecutors, the inequitable access to quality legal representation,  etc., etc. This is wildly oversimplified and I'm sure I misstated something (apologies if I inadvertently offend anyone on a sensitive topic). My point is that I don't think it's fair to compare statistics based on race since I'm confident that circumstances and not race are the reason for the discrepancy. If whites were enslaved and treated as Blacks have been over the years, I suspect the statistics would reflect a white population that was disproportionately responsible for violent crime. 

Great response to a really troubling rant.

[11 HouseBZ]

19 hours ago, Phillydog said:

I appreciate your thoughtful contribution but it's a very Southern perspective and the generalization about "white privilege" utterly ignores the suffering of Southern and Eastern European immigrants, Jews, and homosexuals to name just a few.  Categorically dismissing the de facto Jim Crow laws and practices, the urban renewal projects that destroyed (white) neighborhoods is the problem and impediment to an honest conversation about equality.  

"White privilege" doesn't ignore the suffering of those you mentioned, it proves it's real. All of the ones you mentioned weren't considered "purely" white back in the day so they were relegated to the same status as other "non-whites". Over the years, who was considered "white" has changed to the point that it's inclusive of nearly all of whom stem from the European continent. I found a link from PBS that shows some of the historical uses of terms to refer to those perceived as "inferior/ superior" in the US. Though I haven't commented much as of late, I thought this would help this discussion. Cheers

https://www.pbs.org/race/000_About/002_03_c-godeeper.htm

[Durhamite]

On 2/22/2022 at 5:19 PM, Phillydog said:

 

Based on data compiled by the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) program, it found that while Black people make up 13% of the U.S. population, they were 33% of persons arrested for non-fatal violent crime (NVC), which includes rape, robbery, aggravated assault, and other assaults. Black people were 36% of those arrested for serious non-fatal violent crimes (SNVC), including rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

Similarly, Hispanics make up 18% of the US population and were 21% of those arrested for serious non-fatal violent crimes. Whites, who are 60% of the population, were 46% of persons arrested for non-fatal violent crimes, and 39% of those arrested for serious non-fatal violent crimes.

The designation “Black” and “white” often did not include those who are Hispanic. In 9% of single-offender incidents and 12% of multiple-offender incidents, the victim was unable to tell whether the offender was Hispanic.

The study compared the UCR statistics with those from the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS).  Whereas the UCR relies on reports of criminal arrests submitted by law enforcement officials to the FBI, the 2018 NCVS was based on interviews from 151,055 U.S. households. Thus, the NCVS identifies crimes that are not reported to law enforcement. In the 2018 NCVS, Blacks accounted for 29% of violent crime perpetrators in 35% of the violent crimes reported to police. By comparison., the UCR statistics showed Blacks were 33% of all people arrested for violent crimes.

I now live in Durham since the death of my husband.  The City is a majority non-Black.  It is controlled by Black citizens from the Mayor to the Police Chief to the City Manager.  The City Council is majority Black; there are zero Whites on the Council.  The overwhelming amount of crimes committed in Durham are by Black humans.  But, we can't talk about it.

Durham is not a city where Black residents are not in positions of power.  

An honest discourse about race in America must include an acknowledgement of responsibility.  Blaming others isn't productive nor is it even true.  Let's have a real discussion about culpability that doesn't include generalizations or histrionics.  

In my experience as an African American, don’t pay any attention to crime stats.  The overwhelming amount of people arrested for crime are Black, yes but White crime ain’t crime, never has been.  Tossed out, never happened  etc plus the judicial system goes after low hanging fruit, folks with no means to fight it.   I mean you can literally shoot someone and get away with it….true quote from you know who.
The scary thing is white people don’t think other white people are dangerous.  

[nicholas]

What a load of crap this thread has turned into.

[allthingsplanes]

In what way exactly?

[gman430]

WW3 didn’t happen when Trump was in office. Just saying. Biden’s approval rating looking like the stock market today. 

Edited February 24, 2022 by gman430

[allthingsplanes]

6 hours ago, gman430 said:

WW3 didn’t happen when Trump was in office. Just saying. Biden’s approval rating looking like the stock market today. 

This is an idiotic but not surprising statement.  You think Putin is attacking because Biden is in office?  He was what, scared of trump?  More like he knew trump was undermining NATO and wasnt as worried about it.  And they likely had an agreement - leaving it to trump to just blackmail Zelensky.  Crawl back under your rock.

[kayman]

On 2/22/2022 at 5:13 PM, Phillydog said:

Your analysis is racist.  Mark Robinson is not an outlier.  I watched as busloads of Black voters went to the polls to vote against my civil rights (as a Gay human).  I have also worked with the HIV community and lived in rural NC and know that homophobia in the Black community specifically has led to the expansion of the HIV epidemic.  My husband of 30 years ran the Habitat for Humanity in our majority Black county, and together we sacrificed our time and resources to help the Black community.  When he died, the Black community rejected me, failing to acknowledge me as his spouse and ignoring our sacrifices.  My respect and sympathy for the Black community is gone.  Insisting that "White" people are inherently racist and privileged  is racist.  It's not OK to generalize about any group of humans...except White people?  Gay White humans are "privileged"?  Really?  We have no legal protections in North Carolina (as in most states) and a prevailing culture, that very much includes the Black community, that hates us.  And, let's not forget or ignore that it is Black nations that will legally execute and imprison Gay humans.  Point of fact, Latinos are not POC and are hardly a monolithic voting bloc.  Including Asians in your narrative is equally laughable.  A complete history of the world would include the fact that it was Black Africans who were actively involved in the slave trade and that "Black heroes" like Malcolm X were homophobic racists.  I would also argue that "Black" Americans are not a monolith politically or culturally.  A multicultural coalition including 43% of White Americans elected a Black President.   A Black Senator from South Carolina, Black governors in Virginia and Massachusetts, etc. were elected with substantial White votes.  Pontificating and generalizing about "White" people is narrowminded and bigoted.  It will be very interesting to see how Mark Robinson does with Black voters when he runs for Governor.  My prediction is very well. 

 

Your whole diatribe is very racist, bigoted, and extremely offensive. I have nothing for you.  Goodbye. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by kayman

[tozmervo]

7 hours ago, gman430 said:

WW3 didn’t happen when Trump was in office. Just saying. Biden’s approval rating looking like the stock market today. 

you mean that it finished higher?

[deleted account]

Republicans are now the party of Donald Trump, Tucker Carlson, Paul Gosar, Marjorie Taylor Green, Lauren Boebert, Madison Cawthorne, Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley, Ken Paxton, Mike Lindell, Laura Ingraham, Matt Gaetz, Jim Jordan and Kevin McCarthy. There is NO ONE in the Democratic party that rivals this group for evil, corruption, idiocy, racism and hypocrisy. There is no way to justify voting for Republicans today. I say that as a center right voter. America is broken. 

PS Democrats were wrong to demonize a reasonable man like Mitt Romney. Four short years later Republicans nominated a truly horrible person and our country may never recover (and no, I'm not blaming Democrats for Trump).

[LKN704]

My favorite photo from last night. They look pathetic and quite frankly...crazy. It looks like they are cheering on a sale at Bath and Body Works or Yankee Candle. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by LKN704

[deleted account]

28 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

My favorite photo from last night. They look pathetic and quite frankly...crazy. It looks like they are cheering on a sale at Bath and Body Works or Yankee Candle. 

If they were the last 2 women on earth and I was the last man, humankind would die out. Truly repulsive. 

[go_vertical]

Supposedly Boebert yelled something during the speech when Biden was talking about the troops but I couldn't make out what was said.  Anyone know what the comment was? 

EDIT:

Nevermind, I just read an article about it and yeah, she's pretty damn despicable.

Edited March 2, 2022 by go_vertical

[Madison Parkitect]

23 minutes ago, go_vertical said:

Supposedly Boebert yelled something during the speech when Biden was talking about the troops but I couldn't make out what was said.  Anyone know what the comment was? 

EDIT:

Nevermind, I just read an article about it and yeah, she's pretty damn despicable.

It was awful.

[JRNYP2C]

On 3/2/2022 at 2:12 PM, LKN704 said:

My favorite photo from last night. They look pathetic and quite frankly...crazy. It looks like they are cheering on a sale at Bath and Body Works or Yankee Candle. 

I very rarely post anything political (mostly b/c I am staunchly independent), but these two are the epitome of classlessness and disgust.  It sickens me that the people of Colorado and Georgia find their behavior even remotely normal or objective.  This behavior and these "ladies" have no place in what should be a dignified arena.  And to be even keeled in my independent mindset, Pelosi's behavior was just as juvenile with the clapping and tearing up of the speech a few years ago.  

This looks like they should be at a WWE event.

Repugnant.

[LKN704]

I'm not in Charlotte, and I am asking this here because mask wearing has become so politicized, but what is the estimated percentage of those in Charlotte who still wear masks in public settings?

DC was one of the last state-level jurisdictions (not a state but I am treating it as such) to get rid of its mask mandate, dropping it on 1 March. I would say roughly 50-70% of people still wear masks in grocery stores/drug stores here (depends on the store I guess, I was just in the crowded Soviet Safeway by my house and I only saw one person not wearing a mask) and about 5-15% of people still wear masks when walking around outside (it helps with the cold weather). Nearly every frontline service industry worker still wears a mask, and I would say the majority of people still wear masks when moving about restaurants/cafes. Even though our vaccine requirement has ended, a significant number of restaurants still require vaccine cards for entry. 

Not trying to make this a mask debate, just interested in rough numbers. 

[15895]

6 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

I'm not in Charlotte, and I am asking this here because mask wearing has become so politicized, but what is the estimated percentage of those in Charlotte who still wear masks in public settings?

DC was one of the last state-level jurisdictions (not a state but I am treating it as such) to get rid of its mask mandate, dropping it on 1 March. I would say roughly 50-70% of people still wear masks in grocery stores/drug stores here (depends on the store I guess, I was just in the crowded Soviet Safeway by my house and I only saw one person not wearing a mask) and about 5-15% of people still wear masks when walking around outside (it helps with the cold weather). Nearly every frontline service industry worker still wears a mask, and I would say the majority of people still wear masks when moving about restaurants/cafes. Even though our vaccine requirement has ended, a significant number of restaurants still require vaccine cards for entry. 

Not trying to make this a mask debate, just interested in rough numbers. 

It's like 95% in Southwest. A restaurant required me to show vaccine card and wear a mask to enter this previous weekend (Republic Cantina on New York Ave & N St. NW.)

Yesterday I was annoyed on the phone and when I went into CVS by Waterfront Metro and the guard told me I had to wear a mask. I didn't have one, so I was annoyed. 

I'm sort of annoyed because I feel like masking is useless. but whatever are peoples rules, whatever.

[videtur quam contuor]

Schools and government mask rules ended this week here in Charlotte. Quite a few restaurant servers still have them in my experience. Customers much less so. Some elderly with masks in public places of all kinds and occasionally families with small children. 

My wife has health issues and my choice was to avoid my preferred locations where I knew that customers and employees were cavalier with their mask use. She says she feels more comfortable now so I may slip into my previous bar and restaurant rotation. 

[JRCLT]

It’s not useless. I feel like this entire two years people have been arguing about it and I still don’t understand why people can’t thing of it rationally. There’s a literal barrier on your face that stops your breath composed of drops and air from spreading farther than without a mask. The fact that it limits the spread around you, it clearly then limits the spread to others. Also puts a barrier between you and the outside air which also helps reduce chances of inhaling viral particles from others. It’s not that hard to understand. I don’t know why this was ever a point of contingency for many during these past two years.

Now is it relevant to require them as harshly? Who knows. As of now I have mixed thoughts about it’s effectiveness. As COVID assimilates into the population it will become less of a threat. I have lost the main person that I wanted protect, my grandmother who had asthma. Clearly people forget the fact that we’re all in this world together. There’s really no “I” there’s only “we” on this earth. It is selfish sometimes that people think their small inconveniences overpower the value of life. Especially those conservative republicans that can’t stop yapping about abortion bans but can’t even wear a mask to protect the lives already here (but I digress).

Masks at this point are worn at the discretion of the person and business. Respect a businesses wishes it doesn’t do any good to anybody to get frustrated or annoyed about something as trivial as a mask.

[kermit]

36 minutes ago, LKN704 said:

I'm not in Charlotte, and I am asking this here because mask wearing has become so politicized, but what is the estimated percentage of those in Charlotte who still wear masks in public settings?

DC was one of the last state-level jurisdictions (not a state but I am treating it as such) to get rid of its mask mandate, dropping it on 1 March. I would say roughly 50-70% of people still wear masks in grocery stores/drug stores here (depends on the store I guess, I was just in the crowded Soviet Safeway by my house and I only saw one person not wearing a mask) and about 5-15% of people still wear masks when walking around outside (it helps with the cold weather). Nearly every frontline service industry worker still wears a mask, and I would say the majority of people still wear masks when moving about restaurants/cafes. Even though our vaccine requirement has ended, a significant number of restaurants still require vaccine cards for entry. 

Not trying to make this a mask debate, just interested in rough numbers. 

I don't wander very far these days but I would estimate that mask wearing is about 30% in the East blvd Teeter, maybe 10% in the Sedgefield Teeter. Most employees seem to be still wearing them. Masks appear to have been dropped completely in some crowded restaurants like Snooze Southend (zero masks this morning including employees) or Resident Culture Southend (no masks on anyone on Friday). 

I am just back from Denver, I was surprised at how few masks I saw pretty much everywhere other than the commuter rail (LRT riders generally were not wearing masks). No masks on restaurant employees at all (which is fine, I was just surprised it was so common). 

My rule of thumb recently has been to do what the employees do. While my mask wearing will certainly become more spotty, I'll continue to avoid a) crowded places; b) places with low ceilings (tough for this dive bar connoisseur. Not an epidemiologist but it makes sense to me as a proxy for air circulation). I may continue to wear an N95 on transit for while after the requirement is dropped. If cases spike up again I'll quickly put an N95 back on in all public settings. I do feel like cloth masks are pretty useless in one way masking environments, and I expect that community-wide masking is now gone forever in the US.

Edited March 10, 2022 by kermit