Political Digression Thread -- Save UP! Move the politically focused stuff here

[JeanClt]

I remember in the early 2000s a cow-orker of mine (born, raised, schooled K-grade 16) in Charlotte (CMS, UNCC) beat a path out of Mecklenburg County for Union County for "lower taxes" and to escape the ills of "big city" Charlotte for his kids. He then proceeded to lament the lack of infrastructure in Union County including overcrowded and insufficiently staffed schools. The mind blows.

This is a mind boggling (to me) view that I see some people have. I do acknowledge that some taxes are misused but that doesn’t mean taxes is money that is, in their words “stolen” money, and actually benefits them in forms of programs, institutions, and infrastructure projects that serve them. People that I hear say “I don’t want to pay any taxes” and give me that former response above. I tell them to go live in the middle of no where with no roads, no utilities, and anything that is paid for with taxes and see how it goes for them…

[LKN704]

5 hours ago, davidclt said:

decry "socialism" (for everyone but them and their cohort we paid in and earned our Social Security and Medicare) 

This is a common fallacy, and one I frequently hear...especially from those who I normally consider to be logical. If you are truly against social welfare programs, then you should be against Social Security and Medicare. Saying you are against universal healthcare and the expansion of social welfare programs but still want Medicare is no different in my eyes than saying 2+2=5.

I hear a similar argument from the endless conservative Canadian snowbirds my boomer relatives surround themselves with in South Florida. They endlessly complain about the high taxes in Canada, but are paranoid about meticulously planning their return date to Canada come April to ensure they don't lose coverage in their provincial healthcare plan, which typically is void after being out of the country for 6 months at a time. 

I confronted a close friend of the family once (I don't care what people think) about their hypocrisy and they blamed it on the US government somehow, saying "the US government would take their healthcare away, not Canada". I called BS, and told them the US government has no jurisdiction over another country's health system, to which they said they had to go back after 6 months because that's the maximum time Canadians are allowed in the US in a 365 day period. While true, that's also BS, as I reminded them they themselves have petitioned the USCIS to grant them extra time over the 6 month period and it was approved (I can't remember the specific reason but they are a homeowner in Florida and it's my impression USCIS is quite lenient to Canadian snowbirds, especially those that have a SSN and own property) before they attempted to change the subject so I just walked away. 

[tarhoosier]

US citizens are limited to a six month stay in Canada as well. And jumping across the border for a return to the US for a short time just to restart the six month clock is not allowed. There are exceptions but must be justified at entry.

People saying "I am unhappy with things here in the US and will move to Canada" have given no thought to that proclamation.

https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1016&top=16

Edited August 17, 2022 by tarhoosier

[elrodvt]

However if you're a grandparent and convince a child to move there then you can come under the grandparent rule (or some such). If the child has a priority skill that is.

Regarding the socialism discussion the folks who really crack me up are the libertarians who want to stick to the word of Rynd. "I'll put out my own house fire " an acquaintance told me. :-)

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by elrodvt

[LKN704]

58 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

US citizens are limited to a six month stay in Canada as well. And jumping across the border for a return to the US for a short time just to restart the six month clock is not allowed. There are exceptions but must be justified at entry.

People saying "I am unhappy with things here in the US and will move to Canada" have given no thought to that proclamation.

https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1016&top=16

Yes, I get that, but I don't understand what that has to do with what I said about my original argument. 

I said:

1 hour ago, LKN704 said:

I confronted a close friend of the family once (I don't care what people think) about their hypocrisy and they blamed it on the US government somehow, saying "the US government would take their healthcare away, not Canada". I called BS, and told them the US government has no jurisdiction over another country's health system, to which they said they had to go back after 6 months because that's the maximum time Canadians are allowed in the US in a 365 day period. While true, that's also BS, as I reminded them they themselves have petitioned the USCIS to grant them extra time over the 6 month period and it was approved (I can't remember the specific reason but they are a homeowner in Florida and it's my impression USCIS is quite lenient to Canadian snowbirds, especially those that have a SSN and own property)

But yes, the 6 month rule isn't typically flexible. 

If you are savvy enough, willing to put in the work, and have the skillset in a certain area, it is relatively easy for Americans to move to Canada...it just takes a lot of work. I had a friend I went to undergrad with who ended up getting her PhD in Physics, and she became disillusioned with how things were going in the US. She started applying to jobs in Canada in 2017, got hired, and just flew to Canada without having a work permit. Under NAFTA/USMCA, Americans in roughly 60 or so fields can work/live in Canada and don't even need to apply for a work permit before hand...they can apply at the port of entry in Canada. 

She now has a Canadian PR card. I'm not sure how she transitioned from the NAFTA/USMCA status to PR card. She has a Canadian boyfriend whom she lives with, so I am not sure if he had something to do with it. I don't think NAFTA/USMCA professionals are considered immigrants and you can't change the status once you are granted it, so he more than likely sponsored her. 

In any case, if you have a background in an in-demand field (very loosely defined IMO, from registered nurse to urban planner), you could make it work and try out Canada for a bit. You just might have to be willing to fall in love and pick up a partner in the process. 

[tarhoosier]

The point was that the six month rule applies both ways, Canada-US and US-Canada.

 

[davidclt]

4 hours ago, JeanClt said:

This is a mind boggling (to me) view that I see some people have. I do acknowledge that some taxes are misused but that doesn’t mean taxes is money that is, in their words “stolen” money, and actually benefits them in forms of programs, institutions, and infrastructure projects that serve them. People that I hear say “I don’t want to pay any taxes” and give me that former response above. I tell them to go live in the middle of no where with no roads, no utilities, and anything that is paid for with taxes and see how it goes for them…

Oh it was taxes and other stuff too. I won't share with you the toxicity in his Facebook timeline (I really should unfriend him, he's a jerk) and I won't share his general misogyny. Suffice it to say he's not shy about sharing his disdain for the current President. I had another acquaintance from high school, and another from Charlotte both "conservative" with special-needs children that were grateful for social security and Medicaid benefits (for life) for their kids but firmly against socialized medicine for everyone else. The mind boggles (and they don't see the disconnect or the hypocrisy).

Edited August 17, 2022 by davidclt
typo

[kermit]

Quote

Raleigh, N.C. — North Carolina Lt. Gov. Mark Robinson is dropping more hints about a potential run for governor in 2024. And, if elected, he says he’d work to keep science and history out of some elementary school classrooms.

https://www.wral.com/in-memoir-nc-lt-gov-mark-robinson-mulls-2024-run-calls-for-taking-science-history-out-of-elementary-schools/20427624/

No better way to encourage smart, skilled people (and the companies that rely on them) to move to NC than taking science instruction out of their kid's classrooms.

Edited August 23, 2022 by kermit

[abttown]

4 hours ago, kermit said:

https://www.wral.com/in-memoir-nc-lt-gov-mark-robinson-mulls-2024-run-calls-for-taking-science-history-out-of-elementary-schools/20427624/

No better way to encourage smart, skilled people (and the companies that rely on them) to move to NC than taking science instruction out of their kid's classrooms.

All the more reason to double down on funding public education.  Hard to believe there is an appetite out there for someone like Mark  .   Makes me think of an "I'd rather" comeback I once heard a relative say.  In this case it would go, "I'd rather sh!t in my hands and clap than cast a vote for Mark Robinson".  May that man (and all like him) just fade away...

[LKN704]

4 hours ago, kermit said:

https://www.wral.com/in-memoir-nc-lt-gov-mark-robinson-mulls-2024-run-calls-for-taking-science-history-out-of-elementary-schools/20427624/

No better way to encourage smart, skilled people (and the companies that rely on them) to move to NC than taking science instruction out of their kid's classrooms.

On the one hand, I really wish we could implement some sort of national education policy that was completely unbiased and rooted in science/history, but on the other hand,  it would just become politicized depending on who was in power. Book banning and the war on public education is such a national embarrassment. 

I'm not a parent (and frankly have no desire to be) but IMO a great deal of parents are clueless. Several have no idea how much they do not know about the world their kids live in day in and day out. That's easily one of the best things about public schooling…it helps you learn how to question orthodoxy, to think critically for yourself, and not just ignorantly parrot your parents, but I guess that's why education is so threatening to close-minded individuals. 

I am so thankful to have grown up and been educated in a liberal state (NY) for most of my childhood life (I really only attended NC high school for a year), but even then there are disparities amongst liberal states. I mentioned to a friend from Seattle a couple weeks ago that I had to learn about HIV/AIDS in 2nd/3rd grade, and had to take sex ed classes in 5th and 6th grade (called "Growth and Development" class) that introduced contraceptive methods and didn't necessarily emphasize abstinence. Boys and Girls were taught separately for the classes, but boys received education on the female body and vice-versa. IIRC parents could opt their kids out of the portions that talked about intercourse and bodily anatomy, but couldn't opt out of the HIV/AIDs or contraceptive portions. I don't remember anyone opting out. 

My friend remarked that he didn't learn about HIV/AIDS until middle school. Now granted, we only learned very basic things about HIV/AIDs in 2nd/3rd grade (like it attacks your immune system, make sure you wear gloves when handling blood/administering first aid) and nothing was discussed about sexual behavior...I don't see what the issue is with the material we received. 

I was never good at science, but I enjoyed taking science classes because I thought they were interesting, and one thing I loved about NY is that the state required a certain number of lab hours in order to graduate. I'm not sure if this was the case in most schools in NY, but we had a separate lab class...mine always seemed to be on "B" days. They were strict on the hour requirement, too. The lab teacher would lock the door as soon as the bell rang and if you were late you had to make up the lab hours after school. I never took science class in NC, but I asked my younger brothers if they had a separate lab class and they said they didn't. I also remember being somewhat shocked what my brother was learning in Biology in our school district in NC...nothing about the human body or global warming was discussed (stuff that we discussed at length in NY). 

It wasn't called Biology in NY (it was called Living Environment) but at a curiosity I looked at the state standards for education, and looked up the released Living Environment State Regents Exam I had to take in 9th grade to pass, and I came across the question in the exam that I had forgotten about until now:

I blocked out the image (not because I think it is vulgar or anything), but rather I am not sure of the UP's specific policy. In any case, I can only imagine what would go down if Mr. Robinson found out that we were learning about genitalia in science class. 

The same goes for English class/literature. There are a number of books I remember were taught in English class in NY that I wonder are allowed elsewhere. I remember in 9th Grade we read a book titled "Speak" who's plot revolved around sexual assault. It's apparently one of the top-5 banned books in the country (though I didn't know it at the time) because it apparently "promotes" a male bias and misandry. I never got that vibe from the book (or the English class) and that was never even remotely discussed. Oftentimes, I wonder if those who are so quick to ban books have ever even read the material inside. 

I remember in 8th Grade in Junior High there was a LGBT table with LGBT themed books. I can't remember the specific reason (it wasn't Pride month) but as a young gay teen who felt alone and had no one to talk to about what I was going through, but the fact that I could take home a book that was filled with characters/stories of people just like me was inherently comforting, and I cannot fathom how much more miserable I would have been if I didn't have that resource. 

[kayman]

19 hours ago, kermit said:

https://www.wral.com/in-memoir-nc-lt-gov-mark-robinson-mulls-2024-run-calls-for-taking-science-history-out-of-elementary-schools/20427624/

No better way to encourage smart, skilled people (and the companies that rely on them) to move to NC than taking science instruction out of their kid's classrooms.

That big fat dummy isn't going anywhere further after this stupid stunt.  His black ass caping for white supremacy and anti-intellectualism will not win him any additional allies within anyone non-white North Carolinians (like myself). 

 

14 hours ago, abttown said:

All the more reason to double down on funding public education.  Hard to believe there is an appetite out there for someone like Mark  .   Makes me think of an "I'd rather" comeback I once heard a relative say.  In this case it would go, "I'd rather sh!t in my hands and clap than cast a vote for Mark Robinson".  May that man (and all like him) just fade away...

That idiot only got in because the Democratic candidate for Lieutenant Governor, Yvonne Lewis Holley, wasn't properly funded nor truly campaigned for herself outside of the Raleigh-Durham-Fayetteville DMA in 2020.  His stupid ass barely won by 3 points, so a viable Democratic candidate who is an aggressive campaigner could beat this idiot. North Carolina is a purple state, so a slight increase in black and brown voters would shift this state in a much more progressive direction. 

This is why I encourage everyone to vote on Tuesday, November 8th for former NC Chief Justice Cheri Beasley for the US Senate, Lucy Inman for NC Supreme Court Seat 3, and Sam Ervin for NC Supreme Court Seat 5 along with the other Democratic candidates in the NC General Assembly.  This is type of stupidity of that dummy Robinson perpetuates must cease and desist. 

 

Edited August 24, 2022 by kayman

[SF2CLT]

21 hours ago, LKN704 said:

I looked at the state standards for education, and looked up the released Living Environment State Regents Exam I had to take in 9th grade to pass, and I came across the question in the exam that I had forgotten about until now:

As a former public school educator in both Nevada and California (Social Studies), I find it fascinating that a state testing program would test you on such specific, explicit details that most adults probably wouldn't be able to identify. 

At a curiosity, were you required to take state-level exams for every course of study?

Feel free to PM me because I am genuinely interested to learn more. 

[LKN704]

5 hours ago, SF2CLT said:

As a former public school educator in both Nevada and California (Social Studies), I find it fascinating that a state testing program would test you on such specific, explicit details that most adults probably wouldn't be able to identify. 

At a curiosity, were you required to take state-level exams for every course of study?

Feel free to PM me because I am genuinely interested to learn more. 

I had a long, hard think today about book bans and other methods to whitewash science/history education and found it to be extremely frustrating.

Professionally educated, certified librarians, often with master’s degrees in library science (required in some jurisdictions to be a school librarian) in addition various teaching licensures are trained in the selection of age-appropriate materials for their schools. It is up to them to curate what is in the library. There are a number of reasons that parents and politicians don't hold this job. Banning books is not in the interest of a democracy. 

If a group of parents and/or politicians would like to remove/negatively alter the material found in school libraries and in ELA/science/history curricula, I would like them to go back to school and receive the proper credentials before even beginning to address the issue. 

The very act of banning a book will inspire people to read it. They can ban it from the school library, but not from bookstores or the internet. I believe earlier this year after the book “Maus” was banned from various school libraries it had a “Streisand effect” if you will…sales of the book skyrocketed in bookstores and the book hit record sales on Amazon. 

One thing that really irks my nerves from the political right about health/history/science education in schools is that adolescents are a great deal smarter and mature than some adults would believe. If adults act maturely and don't make a big fuss when discussing sensitive topics, then kids won't either. For example, one week in Lab class in 9th grade we had to watch "The Miracle of Life". It's quite graphic, and shows an actual childbirth live on screen, including the third stage of labor. No permission slips were sent out, no warning. No announcement from the teacher beforehand to "be mature" or anything. It was just shown. Because the teacher was calm and mature, we were calm and mature. No laughing or snickering involved.

To answer your question, in general, yes, core subjects all had Regents exams. The Regents exam schedule went something like this when I was in school:

9th Grade: Living Environment (Biology), Integrated Algebra

10th Grade: Physical Setting (Earth Science), Geometry, World Language , Global History/Geography

11th Grade: Chemistry, Algebra II-Trigonometry , US History, Comprehensive English (was a whopping six-hour exam over two days that required us to write a mock presentation, a persuasive essay, and another type of essay that I can't remember)

I moved away from NY after 11th Grade so I am not sure of the testing schedule for 12th grade…maybe Physics. I think they made some changes since I was in school...I don't think the English exam is 6 hours long anymore. 

They were all pretty rigorous and intense...even the history exams. IIRC each individual history exam required us to write two essays each (one thematic and one document-based) in addition to a lengthy multiple choice portion. 

It might have changed, but now that I think about it my school in NY was relatively liberal and lax when it came to monitoring student movements, so I didn’t really mind the testing or anything. It was a small price to pay for relative freedom. 

You didn’t have to check out with anyone if you left early for like a doctor's appointment...you just walked out the door. It wasn't specifically allowed, but you could technically leave for lunch and come back. Many people did. Juniors and Seniors didn't have Study Halls but "Prep Periods" where they were permitted to wander aimlessly around the school and the inner courtyards. The cafeteria stayed open throughout the day and you could also hang out there during the Prep Period. Freshman and Sophomore students with good grades could "upgrade" their Study Hall period to a Prep Period. During lunch, you could either eat in the cafeteria, the library, or one of the courtyards...or just wander the halls. Every day between 3rd and 4th period we had a break for 15 minutes where you could quickly go to the library, catch up with friends, get a snack or coffee in the cafeteria, etc. After school, there were late buses that ran and you were free to take them if you wanted to go to the library, meet with a teacher, or just catch up with friends. The whole school-day was quite social IMO. 

This contrasts with the high school I went to in NC which was like a prison…the school had a large fence around it with a guard gate, we were locked in the lunch rooms by security guards, and there was no hanging around after school. The whole experience was quite dystopian and filled with rules. 

I totally get that there are greater security concerns today than when I was in high school 15 years ago, but IMO I think giving students more freedom, and treating them as future adults, rather than simply controlling every aspect of the school day like students are prisoners ultimately leads to better academic results and better behavior, which ultimately leads to more responsible citizens. 

[tarhoosier]

Good points, LKN. If you go to your bank branch and see 5-6 police outside, do you consider that location "safe"? The semiotics of safety theater send messages unintended yet lasting.

NC for some (too many) years had EOC (End Of Course) testing in the required curriculum classes which totaled as many as 11 or 12 over a four year period. Exam scores were a required 20% of the final course grade. This created a nearly monthlong series of testing at the end of the year, or semester, depending on the school year design, and the current EOC schedule is down to four exams including grade ten English, Biology, Algebra and Geometry (approximately, for the last two). 

https://www.dpi.nc.gov/districts-schools/testing-and-school-accountability/state-tests/end-course-eoc

[kermit]

The Onion remains undefeated...

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by kermit

[AirNostrumMAD]

HAHAHA, 

3 hours ago, kermit said:

HAHAHA. That is hilarious levity. 

[LKN704]

Back to what I talked about a couple of weeks ago in regard to banning books, this video makes my head spin and gives me so many questions. Imagine being so angry and radicalized at the very thought of a library having a children's book about Frederick Douglass that you have to march around town armed...

1) How do these people have the time to march around town and show up at the library with guns? Aren't they the same people who screamed that folks marching for racial justice should get a job?

2) How are these people accusing the "left/liberal media" of silencing them, if they refuse to be interviewed or refuse to show up to public meetings when they know there will be police +media presence...are they not silencing themselves?

3) NAL or a legal scholar, but doesn't showing up to a library and/or public meeting openly carrying weapons while at the same time demanding XYZ be done constitute a threat with a deadly weapon? Threats can be both verbal and nonverbal, and bringing weapons to a public meaning regarding book bans implies to me that you are threatening to cause harm unless your demands are met. 

[Popsickle]

1 hour ago, LKN704 said:

Back to what I talked about a couple of weeks ago in regard to banning books, this video makes my head spin and gives me so many questions. Imagine being so angry and radicalized at the very thought of a library having a children's book about Frederick Douglass that you have to march around town armed...

1) How do these people have the time to march around town and show up at the library with guns? Aren't they the same people who screamed that folks marching for racial justice should get a job?

2) How are these people accusing the "left/liberal media" of silencing them, if they refuse to be interviewed or refuse to show up to public meetings when they know there will be police +media presence...are they not silencing themselves?

3) NAL or a legal scholar, but doesn't showing up to a library and/or public meeting openly carrying weapons while at the same time demanding XYZ be done constitute a threat with a deadly weapon? Threats can be both verbal and nonverbal, and bringing weapons to a public meaning regarding book bans implies to me that you are threatening to cause harm unless your demands are met. 

Link to an additional article covering the video, published a couple days after the original. 
 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/05/us/idaho-bonners-ferry-library-books/index.html

[kermit]

I wouldn't ordinarily be posting here about an out of state race, but this Portland area politician is ‘talking’ about transit so…

I was highly amused that GOP candidates have extended their ‘transit brings crime’ fear mongering to Light Rail being the preferred mode of transportation for anti-faschists. “We can’t let light rail threaten my fascism!”

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/antifa-on-the-train-how-the-gop-is-making-new-rules-for-political-speech/

 

Edit: they lost

Edited November 15, 2022 by kermit

[DMann]

VOTE!

[Windsurfer]

2 hours ago, kermit said:

I wouldn't ordinarily be posting here about an out of state race, but this Portland area politician is ‘talking’ about transit so…

I was highly amused that GOP candidates have extended their ‘transit brings crime’ fear mongering to Light Rail being the preferred mode of transportation for anti-faschists. “We can’t let light rail threaten my fascism!”

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/antifa-on-the-train-how-the-gop-is-making-new-rules-for-political-speech/

So ridiculous. I live up here now. The real controversy is that so many Portlanders are moving to Vancouver and light rail is seen as an enabler for more movement to Washington.  Probably why one to Rock Hill will never get built.  Back in the 70s, I-77 was finished all the way to SC. There it stopped for several years, and I think lawsuits, because SC didn't want North Carolinians to suck commerce from SC to NC.  Of course we know the opposite is happening.

[gman430]

The red wave is coming.  

Edited November 8, 2022 by gman430

[AirNostrumMAD]

18 minutes ago, gman430 said:

The red wave is coming.  

If you complain a lot of us are Libs, what is the point of this post other than to annoy people on a day we all know we’re likely disappointed?  (This part is me annoyed at you) 

It’s your right btw, so I’m not telling you not to :p But you know your shady behind is rubbing salt in the wound lol (this part is me joking with you because my annoyance towards people last like. 5 seconds haha) 

Edited November 8, 2022 by AirNostrumMAD

[kayman]

11 hours ago, gman430 said:

The red wave is coming.  

You'll be disappointed

[elrodvt]

Hey don't quote him. My ignore settings don't handle filtering that. :⁠-⁠)