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New Richmond Arena


eandslee

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10 minutes ago, drayrichmond said:

That's the problem, I'm afraid most people won't quite understand that, and automatically jump to thinking it's a huge tax break for Dominion. NH Corp and the City need to work over time to really get that message out there that the money would be used for the project, not go back in to Dominion coffers. 

Lets also keep in mind, and I think they need to harp on this too, that the economic ripple effect from a project this size should be quite noticeable. 

Quick example: A larger hotel and new arena should attract larger/more conventions which in turn means more people flying to RIC or taking the train to Main Street Station, renting cars, getting hotel rooms, eating out, etc... That alone will give a big a boost to city income and growth. 

Since the project supposedly pays pays for itself without including the towers, I wonder if the proposal to include them is a pre-planned “concession” to give the city something they can point to as a way to show they are hard negotiators.  

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2 minutes ago, jbjust said:

Since the project supposedly pays pays for itself without including the towers, I wonder if the proposal to include them is a pre-planned “concession” to give the city something they can point to as a way to show they are hard negotiators.  

I see it as the exact opposite. The towers are collateral to pay off development bonds if the project can’t pay off the bonds itself. 

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4 minutes ago, vaceltic said:

I think a lot of people might also wonder if the two Dominion Towers $7.7 million in annual taxes go to improve city services like schools, police, and infrastructure without this deal, why use it as collateral and redirect those planned taxes into an area with no schools until 2049?

While that is a valid argument, 7.7 million in annual taxes toward city services will be great, the argument can also be made that this in turn will help schools more. The school system needs more than money, many of our students, especially here on the east end, live in poverty and the projects. These communities need more than state of the art schools, they need jobs and security, they need better public transit (see GRTC transfer center). I'm not saying I'd rather have this than brand new schools across the city, but I think this would help the bigger picture. 

Either way, let's hope this happens with or without the TIF on Dominions new tower. 

 

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1 minute ago, drayrichmond said:

While that is a valid argument, 7.7 million in annual taxes toward city services will be great, the argument can also be made that this in turn will help schools more. The school system needs more than money, many of our students, especially here on the east end, live in poverty and the projects. These communities need more than state of the art schools, they need jobs and security, they need better public transit (see GRTC transfer center). I'm not saying I'd rather have this than brand new schools across the city, but I think this would help the bigger picture. 

Either way, let's hope this happens with or without the TIF on Dominions new tower. 

 

I completely agree with you there drayrichmond. There are systemic problems with richmond schools that go far beyond throwing money at the problem, which is a much bigger topic for another day.

But the development website is being disingenuous when it claims it will provide money for schools and city services. Ok, if the development is successful maybe there is a cut of tax revenue above and beyond the bond payments that can be used for those purposes. If it is not, dominion towers are included until the bonds are paid off through 2048.

Wait, what? The proposal suggests contingency plans to support the development? MINUS $7.7 million annually to the city that would already be collected?

I’m also surprised the housing density isn’t greater than proposed. Packing in greater density would support the proposal and help feed riders to the Pulse line

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I really don’t understand how people can’t see the corporate welfare at play here. 

$7.7million that would go to the city is going to pay off Doninion’s own investment across town.  We are giving a billion dollar corporation $7.7 million a year (basically in perpetuity)  to pay off their debt elsewhere.   It doesn’t make Richmond look progressive at all. 

 

 

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55 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

I really don’t understand how people can’t see the corporate welfare at play here. 

$7.7million that would go to the city is going to pay off Doninion’s own investment across town.  We are giving a billion dollar corporation $7.7 million a year (basically in perpetuity)  to pay off their debt elsewhere.   It doesn’t make Richmond look progressive at all. 

 

 

They are paying this amount regardless. I don’t understand how it is a break. 

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Disclaimer:  I did downvote, but I don’t do this to take a personal jab at you...I think we are a close group here and I get along with all of you.  I’m just showing that I disagree with your comment.  We can still be friends and still disagree on a point or two.  I just wanted to explain myself as I’m not one to create divides between us since we all bring value to our discussions, even points of view that we may disagree with. 

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9 hours ago, Brent114 said:

I really don’t understand how people can’t see the corporate welfare at play here. 

$7.7million that would go to the city is going to pay off Doninion’s own investment across town.  We are giving a billion dollar corporation $7.7 million a year (basically in perpetuity)  to pay off their debt elsewhere.   It doesn’t make Richmond look progressive at all. 

 

 

With all due respect, you have no idea what you’re taking about.   This is not a Dominion project and the success or failure of the project will not affect Dominion.  

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 The CEO of Dominion is spearheading the development and Dominion has its name all over it (name on the arena, name on all the marketing materials and the domain name).  In a sweetheart deal with the city,  tax revenue from a completely unrelated project that would go to the city, goes to service the debt on Dominion’s  pet project (making it magically successful...good PR).  Money that would go to the city of Richmond is instead used to raise Domonion’s profile.  Nothing to do with Dominion at all....

 

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34 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

 

 The CEO of Dominion is spearheading the development and Dominion has its name all over it (name on the arena, name on all the marketing materials and the domain name).  In a sweetheart deal with the city,  tax revenue from a completely unrelated project that would go to the city, goes to service the debt on Dominion’s  pet project (making it magically successful...good PR).  Money that would go to the city of Richmond is instead used to raise Domonion’s profile.  Nothing to do with Dominion at all....

 

Yes, it’s very improtant for the company who literally has a monopoly over the sale of electricity to build up it’s advertising and brand awareness.   The naming rights will have to be sold to the highest bidder.  

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19 hours ago, Brent114 said:

I really don’t understand how people can’t see the corporate welfare at play here. 

$7.7million that would go to the city is going to pay off Doninion’s own investment across town.  We are giving a billion dollar corporation $7.7 million a year (basically in perpetuity)  to pay off their debt elsewhere.   It doesn’t make Richmond look progressive at all. 

 

 

I agree with you on this one. I'm not completely opposed to this but definitely think Dominion is getting a break.

18 hours ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

They are paying this amount regardless. I don’t understand how it is a break. 

How is it a break? From the way I understand it they are going to use money they would have payed no matter what to possibly help pay off another project, that sounds like a free 7.7 million. At worst you can look at it as money that would have been going to the city that is now being allocated to the new project, which pretty much seems to be like Dominion is asking the City to put up their own money (7.7 million that they would have received) to go to the new project. No expert here, and could be mistaken but that generally how I see it.

However, I'm for this project. Brent114 I know you have mentioned Columbus and being against mega multi block projects. I too don't generally like mega multi block projects and think Columbus's "Arena District" is just atrocious, but this is actually better than I thought was going to be proposed. I would also so that this still isn't an ideal project for me given its gigantic scale, however I've given up on the idea that things will get done in ways that I actually prefer haha. Overall it seems like a dense project that is doing a lot of infill. There aren't giant "plazas" and useless "open space" but it looks to be truly urban. I hope it happens and I hope it's a success.

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Seems like good compromise they could come up with is to not include the current new tower.  Let that money go to general fund.   

but include the second  tower in the tif.  That way incentive for all parties to get the second tower built ... also the second tower should be as large thx increase since it is replacement of the current tower. 

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4 hours ago, jbjust said:

This is not a Dominion project.  There is a group that has formed a non-profit to develop this area for a new arena and the CEO of Dominion is doing this on his own time.   No money will flow to Dominion from this project no matter how successful.  If Dominion wants the naming rights, it is going to have to outbid everybody else who wants the naming rights.   

Right but the non-profit is ran by people associated with Dominion and just 'randomly' the dominion towers and somehow being tied to it? I don't think those things are a coincidence.

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https://www.richmond.com/news/local/city-of-richmond/coliseum-redevelopment-group-led-by-dominion-energy-ceo-wants-city/article_c8e62505-2a29-538a-b7c2-0c1b1ca0d648.html

here is a copy of the article without the pay wall.  Including the towers in the TIf was a suggestion to secure more favorable bond terms and to speed up repayment. It is not prerequisite to making the deal work. 

Would we all agree that so long as this deal is at least revenue neutral for the city it would be a good deal?

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7 minutes ago, tparkerzut said:

Right but the non-profit is ran by people associated with Dominion and just 'randomly' the dominion towers and somehow being tied to it? I don't think those things are a coincidence.

It may seem "coincidental," but Dominion just so happens to be in a good position to offer up the most tax to go toward the new arena development.  There are other CEOs on the panel (Altria, for example), but none of the other companies have structures built within the city that offer (or would offer up) as much tax base as the new Dominion Energy towers.  I can see where you might think there is some self-service going on here, but to make the plan work financially, Dominion's position to offer more than the other companies is the better plan to make the project a reality.  I'm sure the other companies represented in NH District Corp would have liked the same thing, but they aren't as well-positioned.  So, for the greater good and to get the project off the ground, Dominion is the one that offers up the best case scenario.  I really believe that it is just coincidence.  Otherwise, the other panel members would be "up in arms."  Remember, this is a non-profit, so they are not looking for any incentives to themselves, but this plan works where none other would.  That's the way I see it.

5 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

https://www.richmond.com/news/local/city-of-richmond/coliseum-redevelopment-group-led-by-dominion-energy-ceo-wants-city/article_c8e62505-2a29-538a-b7c2-0c1b1ca0d648.html

here is a copy of the article without the pay wall.  Including the towers in the TIf was a suggestion to secure more favorable bond terms and to speed up repayment. It is not prerequisite to making the deal work. 

Would we all agree that so long as this deal is at least revenue neutral for the city it would be a good deal?

Absolutely!!!

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30 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

https://www.richmond.com/news/local/city-of-richmond/coliseum-redevelopment-group-led-by-dominion-energy-ceo-wants-city/article_c8e62505-2a29-538a-b7c2-0c1b1ca0d648.html

here is a copy of the article without the pay wall.  Including the towers in the TIf was a suggestion to secure more favorable bond terms and to speed up repayment. It is not prerequisite to making the deal work. 

Would we all agree that so long as this deal is at least revenue neutral for the city it would be a good deal?

Again I am not against this project, but no I do not like the idea of a revenue neutral project. The city SHOULD be making money off of development that are happening in the city, they shouldn't be forfeiting their tax money just to get the development to happen (at least not all of it). The city has had to deal with the construction of the Dominion tower, public money and resources have gone to that building not just Dominions. And now Dominion asks the city to give up the money they would be getting for the project. I realize there would be more people downtown because of the tower but there is also additional costs of infrastructure support because of the added people. Richmond needs to be collecting money from projects so they have the money to support that project. What happens if in 10 years there are 5 more towers downtown with 10000 more people (which would be great) and to get those towers to happen the City allowed them to put their taxes to other projects opposed to giving them to the city. Then when everyone is complaining to the city about a lack of parking and infrastructure they'll talk about the incompetence at city hall and how terrible everything is ran, which people already do. Instead the tax money from these projects should be going to City Hall so that the have the funds and resources to deal with the challenges of added development and people.

I realize this is one project and not 10 but I can see processes like this creating financial distress for a city. Property taxes are a huge amount of revenue for the city, much more than the meals tax payed by an extra 2000 people living in the city. I realize Dominion isn't getting a break here specifically, but the city is being asked to forfeit needed tax income.

Again, still for this project :tw_wink:

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14 minutes ago, tparkerzut said:

Again I am not against this project, but no I do not like the idea of a revenue neutral project. The city SHOULD be making money off of development that are happening in the city, they shouldn't be forfeiting their tax money just to get the development to happen (at least not all of it). The city has had to deal with the construction of the Dominion tower, public money and resources have gone to that building not just Dominions. And now Dominion asks the city to give up the money they would be getting for the project. I realize there would be more people downtown because of the tower but there is also additional costs of infrastructure support because of the added people. Richmond needs to be collecting money from projects so they have the money to support that project. What happens if in 10 years there are 5 more towers downtown with 10000 more people (which would be great) and to get those towers to happen the City allowed them to put their taxes to other projects opposed to giving them to the city. Then when everyone is complaining to the city about a lack of parking and infrastructure they'll talk about the incompetence at city hall and how terrible everything is ran, which people already do. Instead the tax money from these projects should be going to City Hall so that the have the funds and resources to deal with the challenges of added development and people.

I realize this is one project and not 10 but I can see processes like this creating financial distress for a city. Property taxes are a huge amount of revenue for the city, much more than the meals tax payed by an extra 2000 people living in the city. I realize Dominion isn't getting a break here specifically, but the city is being asked to forfeit needed tax income.

Again, still for this project :tw_wink:

I hear ya, but what makes you think the city is responsible enough to use the tax dollars to do the things it needs to, like pay off the debt for this project (if it comes to fruition)?  At least this way, there is a sure way to direct the taxes to pay off the new arena project.  If we just give the city the tax money to do whatever with it, who knows what they'd do with it?!  There's no guarantee they'd devote it to infrastructure to accommodate additional people downtown or even direct it toward schools/education...or in this case, pay off the debt of the project.  This city's leaders (by past experience) tend to be somewhat corrupt.  They say that they will direct tax money toward a certain cause (i.e. schools), but somehow the money gets directed elsewhere.  The latest increase in the meal's tax could be a good example of this (we'll have to wait and see if the money collected from the meal's tax actually goes to the schools and although they SAID it would...there's just no guarantee).  The TIF in the NH District Corp's plan guarantees that the tax dollars collected from Dominion will go directly to paying of the debt of this project.  For me, I like the security of that plan.  I think it's far and away better than allowing City officials to decide where they want to direct tax dollars, as that system can easily lend itself to corruption.

Glad that you are still for this project!! :)

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