New Richmond Arena

[vaceltic]

I'm not against the concept of redevelopment persay, but organic development is happening all over town, why not wait for it to happen here too? Look at the state of Scott's Addition and Manchester 10 years ago. The city is trying to socially engineer a section of vacant land, when:

#1: The whole reason the area is vacant today is due to Richmond's own failed social engineering efforts between the 1950s-70s that destroyed the neighborhood of navy hill (interstate highway construction and construction of the Richmond Coliseum itself). See this informative article about history repeating itself: http://richmondmagazine.com/news/richmond-history/downtown-transformation-richmond-coliseum/

#2: Richmond has a terrible track record of success with large-scale public-private partnerships

#3: The proposal didn't get any competitive bidding. I would assume if its parameters were feasible to the private sector, there would be multiple bidders clamoring to bid on it

#4: The proposal attempts to solve some problems that aren't there and tries to address ones that have been there for years, but they won't connect the dots for you on the last point. Isn't the hotel's construction trying to solve the issue of not having enough events at the convention center of a size and scale that make the city break even on THIS past investment? So lets throw more money there to create a hotel that no private developer thought to build since the convention center opened? The opening of the Moxy, Marriott Courtyard, Hilton Garden Inn, Quirk, Hampton Inn/Homewood Suites combo (office tower conversion), Hyatt have  happened been done or planned  in the past 5 years in proximity without using city bonds.

If the true concern is affordable housing,  there are several Community Development Corporations in the area that have been doing this for decades and are experts in accomplishing this all over town. Better Housing Coalition and Southside Community Development Corporation come to mind as pioneers in resurrecting Cary St., Church Hill, Blackwell, and other southside neighborhoods.

If the concern is the arena and quality of life, we have the choice of several within a two hour drive (DC, JPJ in Cville, and Raleigh - although Raleigh is a bit further but I've gone to plenty of concerts there on a day trip - tix are usually cheaper than DC too). 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by vaceltic

[jbjust]

The uninformed negativity on this thread makes my head hurt.  Going to take a break for a while.  

[tparkerzut]

43 minutes ago, vaceltic said:

I'm not against the concept of redevelopment persay, but organic development is happening all over town, why not wait for it to happen here too? Look at the state of Scott's Addition and Manchester 10 years ago. The city is trying to socially engineer a section of vacant land, when:

#1: The whole reason the area is vacant today is due to Richmond's own failed social engineering efforts between the 1950s-70s that destroyed the neighborhood of navy hill (interstate highway construction and construction of the Richmond Coliseum itself). See this informative article about history repeating itself: http://richmondmagazine.com/news/richmond-history/downtown-transformation-richmond-coliseum/

#2: Richmond has a terrible track record of success with large-scale public-private partnerships

#3: The proposal didn't get any competitive bidding. I would assume if its parameters were feasible to the private sector, there would be multiple bidders clamoring to bid on it

#4: The proposal attempts to solve some problems that aren't there and tries to address ones that have been there for years, but they won't connect the dots for you on the last point. Isn't the hotel's construction trying to solve the issue of not having enough events at the convention center of a size and scale that make the city break even on THIS past investment? So lets throw more money there to create a hotel that no private developer thought to build since the convention center opened? The opening of the Moxy, Marriott Courtyard, Hilton Garden Inn, Quirk, Hampton Inn/Homewood Suites combo (office tower conversion), Hyatt have  happened been done or planned  in the past 5 years in proximity without using city bonds.

If the true concern is affordable housing,  there are several Community Development Corporations in the area that have been doing this for decades and are experts in accomplishing this all over town. Better Housing Coalition and Southside Community Development Corporation come to mind as pioneers in resurrecting Cary St., Church Hill, Blackwell, and other southside neighborhoods.

If the concern is the arena and quality of life, we have the choice of several within a two hour drive (DC, JPJ in Cville, and Raleigh - although Raleigh is a bit further but I've gone to plenty of concerts there on a day trip - tix are usually cheaper than DC too). 

 

 

I completely agree with your statements and they outline my main concerns. Especially the idea of organic development. They best urban environments are built from small individual developments that come together to make an area or neighborhood. This type of development is hard to pull off and make it look cohesive and not exclusionary, my main concern with mega multi block developments. The renderings are promising however and address some of my biggest concerns about mega projects. The outcome would still be better if it was more organic though.

[jbjust]

7 minutes ago, tparkerzut said:

I completely agree with your statements and they outline my main concerns. Especially the idea of organic development. They best urban environments are built from small individual developments that come together to make an area or neighborhood. This type of development is hard to pull off and make it look cohesive and not exclusionary, my main concern with mega multi block developments. The renderings are promising however and address some of my biggest concerns about mega projects. The outcome would still be better if it was more organic though.

I love small, organic arenas. 

[eandslee]

10 minutes ago, jbjust said:

The uninformed negativity on this thread makes my head hurt.  Going to take a break for a while.  

My thoughts exactly.  I was about to come on and say, "come on guys, help me out here!" (because I know a lot of you are just standing by watching/reading).  BUT, you just said exactly what I'm thinking and I'm struggling to stick around having to explain (albeit poorly) what's actually being proposed over and over again.

[tparkerzut]

4 minutes ago, jbjust said:

The uninformed negativity on this thread makes my head hurt.  Going to take a break for a while.  

This place is meant to be a conversation, not a blanket statement pro development no matter how bad the design or any other aspect of the project is. Unfortunately it's difficult to have true discussions on the internet and often times legitimate concern can come off an NIMBYism. Sometimes the lack of understanding of good urban design on this form makes my head hurt. Maybe some people here have actually payed attention to failed projects, their outcomes and how certain decisions have destroyed cities in the past. Just because urban environment are popular again doesn't mean people aren't still designing projects that destroy the urban fabric of a city. I am pro-Richmond as much as if not more than any other person on here. We are seeing great growth right now despite a 600ft tower downtown, which some people on this forum would lead us to believe means we are doing terribly. Success isn't about having 20 huge projects being built with multiple skyscrapers. It isn't about having every block full in Richmond, which I would love however. It's about smart, sustainable growth. I would rather surface parking lots sit idle until a truly useful project came along instead of a highrise that destroys walkability and function.

Again....... I am for this project, just have some concerns and thought this was somewhere I could have a conversation about it.

[jbjust]

8 minutes ago, eandslee said:

My thoughts exactly.  I was about to come on and say, "come on guys, help me out here!" (because I know a lot of you are just standing by watching/reading).  BUT, you just said exactly what I'm thinking and I'm struggling to stick around having to explain (albeit poorly) what's actually being proposed over and over again.

I have to say that I'm really shocked by the negative reaction to a comprehensive, self-funding proposal put forward by a non-profit group of prominent Richmonders that happens to involve the CEO of Dominion (as well as a number of other big companies based in Richmond).  I don't know if it's because of the Atlantic Coast Pipeline or what, but so many people seem like they want to hate this project because of Dominion's involvement even though the success or failure of the project won't affect Dominion at all.   Maybe people just want to hate it because it involves leadership from big business, which are inherently evil as we all know.  

In my opinion, while there are definitely details and compromises to be ironed out, this is probably the last best chance to have redevelopment of this area for at least 20 years.  Who do you think will step in and do this if we reject this proposal out of hand?  

[RVAbigdawg]

I'm for this project as well.  Our city needs a new arena, period.  Our city needs some areas fixed up, period.  If NH District can get it done, that's a major step in the right direction.  I have also wondered that maybe Farrell's group was the only group to submit because of the failed past proposals that happened with The Diamond.  Groups came forward to put a stadium next to it, a stadium at 95/Broad, a stadium at the old Cloverleaf Mall, etc. and none of them worked.  Because those proposals didn't work, nobody wants to submit anymore.  Who knows?  Let's just get something done!

[jbjust]

4 minutes ago, Hike said:

Tom Ferrell, Dominion CEO, has to have pretty thick skin, I doubt if some negative reactions will ruffle much, if things did bother him,  a push for the pipeline would have been over years ago. 

I'm not worried about Ferrell getting his feelings hurt, I'm worried about the thin-skinned city council-members.  As we know, they're not above knee-jerk reactions based on community complaints without any independent thought or analysis (see, e.g., the Brook Road bike lane ordinance). 

[vaceltic]

5 minutes ago, jbjust said:

I'm not worried about Ferrell getting his feelings hurt, I'm worried about the thin-skinned city council-members.  As we know, they're not above knee-jerk reactions based on community complaints without any independent thought or analysis (see, e.g., the Brook Road bike lane ordinance). 

I saw the notice that was put out for changing the bike lane route. Pretty shameful tactic, IMO.

[Icetera]

While I certainly prefer more organic development in general, I do not see that happening with this section of town.  Having worked in BioTech park, it is rather frustrating how isolated that area is due to everything being owned by a large government entity (VCU, City, State, Fed), therefore, preventing any smaller developer from making any improvements in the area.  So far this plan looks like it has the potential to fill in the government wasteland and reconnect Navy Hill, Jackson Ward and the Central City (I really love the capping of the garages!).  However, I am really curious as how the hotel project will come about and how Shamin and other hoteliers in the area will react (f not involving themselves).

[vaceltic]

The proposed hotel is a Hyatt brand. Wonder if this affects the Canal Walk Hyatt proposal at all?

[Icetera]

Just now, vaceltic said:

The proposed hotel is a Hyatt brand. Wonder if this affects the Canal Walk Hyatt proposal at all?

I have been wondering if that is a factor in its delay (beyond right-of-way issues).

[wrldcoupe4]

Hyatt Place along the canal - this would have to be one of their higher end brands, hopefully a Hyatt Regency which seems like it could be based upon the typical format.

[vaceltic]

Not really new news, but related, the city center proposed development rendering is OBE - the article mentions potentially expanding the TIF district into this block is as part of the overall proposal. 

[eandslee]

18 minutes ago, vaceltic said:

Not really new news, but related, the city center proposed development rendering is OBE - the article mentions potentially expanding the TIF district into this block is as part of the overall proposal. 

If it’s part of the proposal, what is going in the city center block?  Did I miss something?  Sorry, if I’m just forgetting. 

[wrldcoupe4]

What is OBE?

[eandslee]

8 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

What is OBE?

Overcome By Events

[vaceltic]

2 hours ago, eandslee said:

If it’s part of the proposal, what is going in the city center block?  Did I miss something?  Sorry, if I’m just forgetting. 

The NH rendering as it exists now doesn’t include that block. At least it didn’t look like it

[eandslee]

19 minutes ago, vaceltic said:

The NH rendering as it exists now doesn’t include that block. At least it didn’t look like it

Ah, I didn’t think I’d miss something as significant as putting something on that block (thanks for confirming my sanity), but it does make me wonder what they might put in that block considering it is part of the proposal.  Hopefully, it’s something tall. That is a prime piece of real estate where a signature tower should be located due to its prominent location in the skyline. 

[vaceltic]

13 minutes ago, eandslee said:

Ah, I didn’t think I’d miss something as significant as putting something on that block (thanks for confirming my sanity), but it does make me wonder what they might put in that block considering it is part of the proposal.  Hopefully, it’s something tall. That is a prime piece of real estate where a signature tower should be located due to its prominent location in the skyline. 

I don’t think it is part of the proposal, yet. But Im assuming since it’s bejng explored, the original developer backed out of his plans for City Center. This block is owned by city so it could easily be part of the TIF district expansion. 

[meegwell]

Richmond "Top City" to host major league sports team....

 

http://www.nbc12.com/story/38640961/firm-richmond-a-top-city-to-host-major-league-franchise

 

 

[eandslee]

Well, the latest article on this development has me worried.  I’m afraid that city council is going to be too incompetent to vote on this thing on time, therefore missing the window of opportunity to get the deal done (they want to do their own study). Gray and other council members are not “buying” this proposal...they use the word “skeptical,” but they really mean that they already think that this deal is no good.  Others are not ready to pass any judgement yet.  Gee I hope a miracle happens and this thing passes and does so on time. Fingers crossed!

https://www.richmond.com/news/plus/richmond-city-council-mulling-own-analysis-of-arena-redevelopment-proposal/article_e66c5e80-4fff-5d8e-aba5-53c34457668c.html

Edited July 19, 2018 by eandslee

[eandslee]

27 minutes ago, Hike said:

Read that as well and thought the same thing.  Is just a 5-4 vote required was my question?  If so. It may have some chance.

I hope you’re right. Richmond NEEDS this pretty badly. This will probably be the last opportunity to replace the Coliseum for a while...gotta do this right, but do it now!

[wrldcoupe4]

For a decade or more, Richmond’s leadership has been afraid of coming to conclusions and making decisions.  The hiring of a consultant is a CYA cop out that gives cover if everything doesn’t work out in a politically advantageous way.