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New Richmond Arena


eandslee

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I'm not against the use of TIF in principle, but folks do need to understand they are not a magic free-money generator. They can be set up and managed poorly, and are ripe for corruption without significant oversight. We can cheer for growth and revitalization while at the same time applying proper scrutiny here. 

What concerns me most about this project is the size of the TIF district. It seems to be much too large and will funnel unnecessary tax revenue away from the general fund. Think about it..  if the project is projected to generate an additional $1.1 billion on top of the $600 million needed to pay back the bonds, then the TIF area can obviously be reduced in size.  Why such a miss-match? Why not generate the needed revenue to pay off the bonds and then eliminate the TIF? 

I get anxious about a project that is estimated to siphon ~$1 billion and put into a TIF fund that would be captured anyway through normal taxation. 

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5 hours ago, Urbs42 said:

I'm not against the use of TIF in principle, but folks do need to understand they are not a magic free-money generator. They can be set up and managed poorly, and are ripe for corruption without significant oversight. We can cheer for growth and revitalization while at the same time applying proper scrutiny here. 

What concerns me most about this project is the size of the TIF district. It seems to be much too large and will funnel unnecessary tax revenue away from the general fund. Think about it..  if the project is projected to generate an additional $1.1 billion on top of the $600 million needed to pay back the bonds, then the TIF area can obviously be reduced in size.  Why such a miss-match? Why not generate the needed revenue to pay off the bonds and then eliminate the TIF? 

I get anxious about a project that is estimated to siphon ~$1 billion and put into a TIF fund that would be captured anyway through normal taxation. 

As to why the TIF is so large I can't entirely say, it was mentioned that it was larger because the options for the affordable housing units aren't all within the Navy Hill neighborhood. Meaning future affordable housing for this project would be located within the larger TIF. Not sure why they can't just locate it outside of the TIF and still use the money to finance it.

I don't get the feeling that the TIF will exist as soon as the price is covered. All tax collected from the area will go to paying the coliseum off UNTIL it is payed off, not forever.

Maybe also to ensure that the funds are available just in case everything doesn't go as planned? Maybe they are being cautious? That's hopeful thinking and we should do our due diligence on finding a real answer as to why the TIF is so larger.

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3 hours ago, tparkerzut said:

As to why the TIF is so large I can't entirely say, it was mentioned that it was larger because the options for the affordable housing units aren't all within the Navy Hill neighborhood. Meaning future affordable housing for this project would be located within the larger TIF. Not sure why they can't just locate it outside of the TIF and still use the money to finance it.

I don't get the feeling that the TIF will exist as soon as the price is covered. All tax collected from the area will go to paying the coliseum off UNTIL it is payed off, not forever.

Maybe also to ensure that the funds are available just in case everything doesn't go as planned? Maybe they are being cautious? That's hopeful thinking and we should do our due diligence on finding a real answer as to why the TIF is so larger.

Yes, people don't realize that the debt obligation is finite and that if the TIF generates more than needed it goes to the city. 

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Just another resource here - this is a great objective breakdown of the components and financing of the development (to include the full 181-page Hunden Strategic Partners analysis):

http://rvadirt.com/local-government-blog/opinion/2018/11/3/understanding-the-components-and-financing-of-the-nob-development

Now, go do your homework and get smart on how everything will work. 

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speaking of Atlanta "Gulch" earlier - it just got approved and there are already big things happening for them.   Looks like Norfolk Southern is going to move their headquarters now to Atlanta.

It shows - if you stay stagnant you will continue to lose out to cities that are doing major planning right now to take advantage of the resurgence of city life.  Big plans in Richmond might not just be about attracting new companies to Richmond and economic growth, but protection of what we have now!

 

 

Edited by cbl1
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Lets keep in mind too, along with the NS move, that Amazon has an apparent choice in HQ2 (or at least a big chunk of HQ2) in Crystal City/Arlington. Which means that hopefully we will see more moves such as CoStar, who moved to RVA for cheaper cost of living and office space. The timing of this arena development couldn't be better in this regard, imagine the marketing we could do with all the brand new office space to built. I certainly hope we have a plan in place to woo companies in NOVA/DC to open branches in RVA for cheaper rents/cost of living and we can certainly use this development as a huge selling point!

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47 minutes ago, RVAbigdawg said:

There's something in the RTD (I don't have a subscription) about the Department of Social Services possibly being relocated to where Philip Morris' former Operations Center off of Bells Road used to be, to make way for the redevelopment...

Can confirm. This is just another confirmation that things are rolling along!  Let’s get this new arena built!!

What you said above is the gist of the article. There are still some things to work out such as increasing frequency of GRTC buses to the site. One council member thought that it was too far away from downtown...other than that, nothing new. 

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36 minutes ago, eandslee said:

One council member thought that it was too far away from downtown...other than that, nothing new. 

I would agree on that as pushing the city (and state) government offices out of downtown seems counter-productive.  Is this possibly temporary?  I do not recall new government offices being included in the project.

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16 minutes ago, Icetera said:

I would agree on that as pushing the city (and state) government offices out of downtown seems counter-productive.  Is this possibly temporary?  I do not recall new government offices being included in the project.

The article suggests that it is temporary, but there is no confirmed plans on who will pay for a new facility or office space downtown (presumably in the new development).  This is another one of the details to be worked out...according to the article. 

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Having worked at that Philip Morris location in the past, it's not really a "corner of the city".  That section of Commerce and Bells Road is easily accessible from I-95 and it's not THAT far from downtown - it's only 5 or 6 miles.  Plus, there are GRTC buses that go to that location, so for folks who don't/can't drive, they can get there, no problem.  My guess would be that's another reason why they're choosing a location like the old PMUSA Ops Center, in addition to the size of the building being a good size.  And with it being a temporary location, I think it's a good stop until they find or build something permanent.

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7 hours ago, RVAbigdawg said:

Having worked at that Philip Morris location in the past, it's not really a "corner of the city".  That section of Commerce and Bells Road is easily accessible from I-95 and it's not THAT far from downtown - it's only 5 or 6 miles.  Plus, there are GRTC buses that go to that location, so for folks who don't/can't drive, they can get there, no problem.  My guess would be that's another reason why they're choosing a location like the old PMUSA Ops Center, in addition to the size of the building being a good size.  And with it being a temporary location, I think it's a good stop until they find or build something permanent.

Sure, if you live downtown or south side its not that bad to get to. Tell that to the person who lives in Peter Paul, according to google that's an hour and a half bus ride. You can get to it by bus but a three hour round trip ride isn't very practical. 

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2 minutes ago, tparkerzut said:

Sure, if you live downtown or south side its not that bad to get to. Tell that to the person who lives in Peter Paul, according to google that's an hour and a half bus ride. You can get to it by bus but a three hour round trip ride isn't very practical. 

That is why they are working to develop  a better bus transit plan to meet the needs of everyone needing to get there.  Standby for more news on this in the coming weeks (I am assuming).  

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