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eandslee

New Richmond Arena

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It did say that a plan would be forthcoming in the "coming weeks"...meaning more than one week, so looking for something in week 2 is totally validated!

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While development news has been slow, I came across this interesting piece from The Virginian-Pilot regarding what I have just dubbed as the "arena wars" between Virginia Beach, Hampton, and Richmond (may even include C'ville in this as well).  I have some questions:  If all three localities build a new arena (and with C'ville in the mix as well) how in the world is one metro area going to win out?  When an act comes to Virginia, how do they decide which arena to go to (if it goes to two or more, the attendance numbers for each same event will be smaller)?  Who will get the ACC Tournament, A-10 Tournament, NCAA Tournament?  I just seems like Richmond and the Norfolk area are constantly competing against one another and each has to have its own thing and not one of the two metros surpasses the other.  There are some areas where the two metros compete where one is slightly better/bigger than the other.  Case in point are the airports - Richmond has a slightly busier airport than Norfolk International, but ironically, the Norfolk Metro area has a slightly larger population than Richmond.  Overall though, the two metros are very similar in size and have similar amenities and where one exceeds the other, the other metro is right on its tail.  So, the big question is this: which of the two metros will surpass the other (eventually)?  Will there be a tremendous economic boost that will thrust one metro over the other?  It will be interesting if one actually far surpasses the other due to one event or a series of events (it could be as simple as leadership change or the decision of a ,or a couple, major corporations that decide to relocate, etc.), but I thought I'd post this here since it speaks mostly of the arena situation in Virginia.  Check it out and chime in:

 

https://pilotonline.com/sports/columnist/harry-minium/with-richmond-entering-the-fray-virginia-could-be-entering-another/article_8e274d14-20be-50d9-a2eb-9e67fc7e44fa.html

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Richmond only has a busier airport because PHF splinters the peninsula from using ORF.

If a sports team is deciding on a metro area, it will look at the media market size (essentially population) first, and then all else. HR has larger, thus it has the higher hand. Building in the core city (Norfolk) would make the most sense as it is the centrally located one with an existing arena (although, as does Hampton). C'ville is too small of a location to draw big name acts, but they usually go there anyway for the arena size and relatively new age while scheduling another stop in HR, and skip over Richmond entirely.

Regardless, sports leagues like NBA and NHL will look at other metros long before they look at RVA or HR. Seattle comes to mind. As does Pittsburgh (for NBA).

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1 hour ago, RVA-Is-The-Best said:

Richmond only has a busier airport because PHF splinters the peninsula from using ORF.

Actually, as of 2015, RIC (1.74m) had just a touch more passengers than ORF and PHF combined (1.72m).  Given rates of growth, RIC should be even further ahead for 2016.

http://www.virginiaplaces.org/transportation/airtransport.html
http://www.virginiaplaces.org/transportation/airtransportrichmondhamptonroads.html

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31 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Kind of surprising given Hampton Roads MSA is 25% larger than Richmond's MSA. 

I would be curious as to how much of that traffic is from outside the metro.  Given that HR is stuck in a corner I doubt they bring in as much from outside whereas RIC can draw from Charlottesville (many businesses fly out of RIC for cheaper airfare), Lynchburg and southwest of RVA.  HR does have the military passenger traffic but RIC also has an expanding Fort Lee and state government traffic which may balance that out (if not surpass).

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22 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Kind of surprising given Hampton Roads MSA is 25% larger than Richmond's MSA. 

I guess I never took real notice of the numbers, but I'm also surprised to hear that Hampton Roads MSA is 25% larger than Richmond's MSA!  I mean, I knew it was larger, but didn't realize it was 25% larger!  That just makes Richmond International Airport that much better, I guess?!  I mean really, of any other airport in the state that should be doing really well (aside from Dulles and National), it should be RIC. The location is more central to the rest of the state (meaning it's grab area/potential market is larger than Norfolk's as they are surrounded by water).  Just surprised too that RIC isn't doing better than it is. I actually think that RIC is a great alternative airport to the NOVA airports especially for those folks who live on the southern end of the DC metro area. Heck, I even use RIC from time to time (going to increase starting in October) and I live in NOVA!  RIC just needs to get better destinations (more direct flights west...even a European destination would be sweet) and keep prices low...and actually market itself up here (I never hear anything about RIC up here).  People will go down there to fly if they know about the deals and destinations.  Like I said, I do, but it's only because I know what RIC has to offer. 

2 minutes ago, Icetera said:

I would be curious as to how much of that traffic is from outside the metro.  Given that HR is stuck in a corner I doubt they bring in as much from outside whereas RIC can draw from Charlottesville (many businesses fly out of RIC for cheaper airfare), Lynchburg and southwest of RVA.  HR does have the military passenger traffic but RIC also has an expanding Fort Lee and state government traffic which may balance that out (if not surpass).

My thoughts exactly. Dude, I need to be on the RIC airport commission!  I could get more people flying out of RIC in a heartbeat! ;)

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The people that I know that live in the HR metro fly out of Richmond. They live on the Peninsula and Middle Peninsula and geting to Richmond is easier than getting to Norfolk (and the MN/WMB airport is expensive with very limited options).  My sisters in CO have been flying into Richmond (to visit family in HR) for 25 years.  When Frontier had a direct flight from Denver to NN they did use that airport occasionally but even then mostly opted to use RIC.  

I doubt many people from York, Williamsburg, Gloucester and James City County (and half of Newport News) choose Norfolk over Richmond.  It can't be over stated how much people hate the HRBT. 

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On the Arena

While Hampton Roads is larger than Richmond (by about 30%) it's good to keep in mind that they have two arenas that seat approx 13k each, while we have one that seats approx 13k. Add in the new VB arena with 22k seats and the proposed Norfolk Scope redo adding more seats, then you have three competing arenas within ~30 min. of each other. Our arena doesn't not compete with a direct neighbor like theirs do unless you count Cville, which we would knock out of competition with a modern arena due to our size.

So anyway, while Hampton Roads is a larger metro, they seem more content and interested in competing with each other rather than Richmond; and three competing arenas in the area sounds rough. If the VB arena is built and successful, then I can see at least one of the smaller ones shutting down. We on the other hand only have one arena and would (if the arena gods answer our prayers) only have one modern new arena. And with a population and the size to support it. So just keep in mind, even though they are bigger than us by 25-30% they will have three arenas to our one which kind of gives me the impression that one arena in Richmond will be more successful do to less competition and a metro size to properly support one arena.

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Some news, not a whole lot, but things are moving.

http://www.richmond.com/news/local/city-of-richmond/private-group-hires-two-firms-to-explore-options-to-replace/article_56ab41cb-978a-579f-8941-e13f65e5fa16.html

A couple of quote pulls that I like;

From "Future Cities", one of the firms hired:

"The basis for Future Cities' development approach is to treat these projects both as internally connected revenue programs, and as components of an active street presence — connected and necessary parts of modern urban life,"

From the second firm hired, Concord Eastridge:

"Concord Eastridge is led by President and CEO Susan Eastridge, who founded the company in 2003 to focus on pre-development planning and financing of "urban mixed-use projects, as well as university, municipal and public/private real estate development.""

 

It sounds like they have the right idea about how to develop the area; urban, mixed use, good street presence.

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Disappointingly, this project isn't as far along as I thought it was. They are still in the study and feasibility stage.  It's possible that it could be a year or more before we see any plans.  I do like the team doing the study/feasibility though. 

Edited by eandslee

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More details emerge...see the RBS article here:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2017/09/05/lead-developers-place-new-downtown-arena-project/

Something that stuck out to me is that they are looking at building an arena that seats 17K-18K.

There are also details regarding the Blues Armory - 3 levels - a market on the first floor, a music venue on the second floor and top floor an event space.

The hotel will be 400 rooms and will be behind the Blues Armory (between it and the new arena, which will be where the Coliseum current sits).  There's not a lot of space in that area, so a 400 room hotel could get some height!

Finally, it says that an arena in Richmond of this size would probably have a competing edge over JPJ Arena in Cville and the arena to be built in VA Beach (not sure how other than maybe location?).

 

Edited by eandslee
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1 hour ago, eandslee said:

The hotel will be 400 rooms and will be behind the Blues Armory (between it and the new arena, which will be where the Coliseum current sits).  There's not a lot of space in that area, so a 400 room hotel could get some height!

Especially when you consider the new Hyatt going in by the canal has 144 rooms and is going to be10 stories; a 400 room hotel up there would definately have some height to it. You should check out the websites for the firms they hired, Future Cities has some great renderings of what could be for our arena.

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A 400 room hotel on that small of a lot could give us a very large tower! That plus a 17-18,000 seat arena that is all being privately developed would be a godsend gift for the city. Hope to see renderings soon.

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Interesting note on the Future Cities US Air arena:

 

"The Arena, renamed US Airways Center midway through the project, has become the first of the new generation of privately financed arena venues to recognize the need for complete and systematic regeneration through sponsorship and premium product upgrades. The project was initiated in a 48-hour workshop format where most of the principle elements were conceived, and eventually implemented. Noteworthy elements include a new entry pavilion, team store, new clubs and lounges, as well as an outdoor broadcast studio for pre and postgame shows."

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The forums have been pretty quiet lately so I thought I'd post something. A good model for the group to follow would be what Edmonton is doing. There are tons of similarities with these projects. First the metro population of both cities is close to 1.3 million, second the sizes of the arenas are similar as both will be around 17-18,000 seats. Also both developments are supposedly going to include a hotel above 350 rooms with Calgary having 356 and richmonds to have 400(Calgary's hotel is a 56 story tower). These developments have the potential to catalyze development in each of their cities and hopefully, we can do something similar to theirs and get a massive new entertainment district with multiple massive new highrises.

Edited by blopp1234
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On 9/11/2017 at 3:23 PM, blopp1234 said:

The forums have been pretty quiet lately so I thought I'd post something. A good model for the group to follow would be what Edmonton is doing. There are tons of similarities with these projects. First the metro population of both cities is close to 1.3 million, second the sizes of the arenas are similar as both will be around 17-18,000 seats. Also both developments are supposedly going to include a hotel above 350 rooms with Calgary having 356 and richmonds to have 400(Calgary's hotel is a 56 story tower). These developments have the potential to catalyze development in each of their cities and hopefully, we can do something similar to theirs and get a massive new entertainment district with multiple massive new highrises.

9/13/17 Edmontonjournal.com:  "The Calgary Flames are no longer going to pursue a new arena in Calgary, Flames president and CEO Ken King said during a news conference with NHL commissioner Gary Bettman in the city on Tuesday.

After months of talks with Calgary officials, King said it became clear the city has no genuine interest in helping build a new arena for the NHL team."

Is this the same development.Victoria Park?

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, meegwell said:

9/13/17 Edmontonjournal.com:  "The Calgary Flames are no longer going to pursue a new arena in Calgary, Flames president and CEO Ken King said during a news conference with NHL commissioner Gary Bettman in the city on Tuesday.

After months of talks with Calgary officials, King said it became clear the city has no genuine interest in helping build a new arena for the NHL team."

Is this the same development.Victoria Park?

 

 

 

 

No, I was thinking of the ice district in Edmonton. That includes the new Rogers Place arena. Here's a link to an article on it:

https://www.retail-insider.com/retail-insider/2017/5/ice-district

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Finally - here it comes!!! Is any one able to go to the 11:00 announcement?  Added note, wonder if we'll hear that VCU is also involved.  I've heard on the VCU basketball forum rumblings of this,  was speculation,  no hard evidence.  Also, the RTD has exclusive on this,  thought they may push to be the link to this over Richmondbizsense, who broke the story initially.

http://www.richmond.com/news/local/city-of-richmond/rtd-exclusive-mayor-stoney-to-announce-major-downtown-redevelopment-plan/article_94bac7fb-b6c7-5b89-be12-9623fd44f1c2.html

Edited by Hike
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Notes From Mayor Stoney's Announcement:

"Request for Proposals for Major Downtown Redevelopment"

Requirements

1st. Replace the Coliseum

2nd. A "meaningful" housing component, must be mixed income

3rd. New GRTC transfer station

4th. Include the Blues Armory in the redevelopment while retaining its historical value

5th. Construction of a new hotel in close proximity to the Convention Center with a MINIMUM of 400 rooms.

6th. Government owned land can be used in redevelopment proposals, with the Mayor specifically calling out the Public Safety office building and the Social Services office building.

The Mayor also said that there has been "considerable interest both locally and nationally" in a project like this, in regards to meetings he has been in and the Economic Development office has been in.

Deadline: Mayor said companies have 90 days to submit proposals.

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2 minutes ago, drayrichmond said:

Notes From Mayor Stoney's Announcement:

"Request for Proposals for Major Downtown Redevelopment"

Requirements

1st. Replace the Coliseum

2nd. A "meaningful" housing component, must be mixed income

3rd. New GRTC transfer station

4th. Include the Blues Armory in the redevelopment while retaining its historical value

5th. Construction of a new hotel in close proximity to the Convention Center with a MINIMUM of 400 rooms.

6th. Government owned land can be used in redevelopment proposals, with the Mayor specifically calling out the Public Safety office building and the Social Services office building.

The Mayor also said that there has been "considerable interest both locally and nationally" in a project like this, in regards to meetings he has been in and the Economic Development office has been in.

Deadline: Mayor said companies have 90 days to submit proposals.

good summary - thank you!  bummer of this is that we saw the RFP process for the boulevard, what a year ago or so,  and what have we seen from that, zip so far..

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Just now, Hike said:

good summary - thank you!  bummer of this is that we saw the RFP process for the boulevard, what a year ago or so,  and what have we seen from that, zip so far..

Yeah, but I think that's mainly held up because of the baseball stadium fiasco.

This on the other hand doesn't have that problem, and the request for proposal for the arena area seems to specifically target the points that we saw on the bizsense article about Dominions CEO wanting to redevelop that area. It's almost like the Dominion CEO piqued the interest and had a plan that looks pretty much exactly the same as this; so, now the city in return is asking for official proposals.

It's like someone is showing interest and the city has to ask them to dance.

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1 minute ago, drayrichmond said:

Yeah, but I think that's mainly held up because of the baseball stadium fiasco.

This on the other hand doesn't have that problem, and the request for proposal for the arena area seems to specifically target the points that we saw on the bizsense article about Dominions CEO wanting to redevelop that area. It's almost like the Dominion CEO piqued the interest and had a plan that looks pretty much exactly the same as this; so, now the city in return is asking for official proposals.

It's like someone is showing interest and the city has to ask them to dance.

let's hope this is on a faster track.  As for the  diamond, Boulevard area, I did hear that the ABC warehouse is still trying to get funding  from the General Assembly to move, which may be part of the puzzle and thus the reason for that being on the slow train?

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Question for the board:  given the space restrictions of the area in question, roughly how many floors would a 400+ room hotel be?  Thanks

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3 minutes ago, Wahoo 07 said:

Question for the board:  given the space restrictions of the area in question, roughly how many floors would a 400+ room hotel be?  Thanks

That's going to be hard to say without knowing the lot it's to be built on. But for reference, the 10 story Hyatt planned for the Canal District has 144 rooms on 6 floors. So assuming a similar lot size, we could be looking at something about 15 stories; but again it depends on a lot, the size of the lot, the size of the actual rooms, etc..

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