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eandslee

New Richmond Arena

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17 hours ago, vaceltic said:

My understanding from school advocates is the concern with concentration of poverty plaguing the schools is a separate issue from Navy Hill and not related. It’s about the absolutely decrepit physical condition of the schools themselves A nd disrepair because maintenance has been deferred for years and years ~ now all of a sudden Richmond is capable of funding an arena with $600 million in debt.  Local news outlets and the public have been highlighting this as a priority for quite a while now.

Where are people seeing that it is $600 million in debt? It's my understanding that number is essentially a lie spread by the anti-NH crowd. 

Also not paying $300m for the coliseum doesn't mean we have an extra $300m to pay for a school.  We just have essentially the same budget and one less billion dollar redevelopment project.

Edited by RiverYuppy
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3 hours ago, RiverYuppy said:

Where are people seeing that it is $600 million in debt? It's my understanding that number is essentially a lie spread by the anti-NH crowd. 

Also not paying $300m for the coliseum doesn't mean we have an extra $300m to pay for a school.  We just have essentially the same budget and one less billion dollar redevelopment project.

Arena debt service “lie” you seemed to have missed, extracted from four different media sources. 

https://richmondbizsense.com/2019/10/24/decision-on-2nd-dominion-tower-looms-large-over-navy-hill-project/

or

http://www.rvapol.com/blog/2019/1/8/nobnavy-hill-what-are-non-recourse-bonds

or

https://richmondmagazine.com/news/news/navy-hill/

or

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.richmond.com/news/local/scrutiny-of-public-financing-intensifies-after-b-downtown-redevelopment-deal/article_1caab9eb-9ad0-5edc-86f7-03a695ec71c5.amp.html

Edited by vaceltic
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The $600 million is what most reports show with interest over the 30 year life of the bonds.   It is only $300m initial cost (if it gets paid back faster then projections then total cost is far less than $600million).

So #1 its not $600million ins 2019 dollars.   Its $300million plus interest over life of bonds.   Projected revenue to the city after costs is expected at $985million - so over life of project $385million revenue to city is expected from the project.

Private investment of $1.2billion is a major part driving revenue.

Seems the math works out as invest $300million (which worst case after interest means paying $600million over 30 years - $20million paid from TIF each year) … in return get $1.2billion in further private sector initial investment (not even counting others investing over 30 years into the area with Navy Hill as the spark) … and get $985million in additional revenue to the city over that same 30 year period (so that equates to average $32million in annual revenues with $20million used to pay off the bond = $12million surplus revenue - - yes you can use it for schools!

FYI - if both Dominion Towers are constructed by 2022 the annual tax revenue to city would be $5.4 million per projections.   So that is where I think a lot of the controversy starts in that some want to bank the $5.4 million in revenue vs. going with the TIF and Navy Hill (which appears to have $12+ million in revenue potential but more of a gamble vs. a sure thing).  

$5.4 million isn't going to solve school situations - your ability to fund schools is going to be dependent on growth!

And actually the budget for the Arena is $220million - the other $80million is for projects on the city list like restore blues armory and create a transfer station.   Without Navy Hill how do they get any of that done.

 

 

Edited by cbl1
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Yeah, I believe the $600m is non-deflated worst case scenario of the price + financing costs.

If my house is $300k I might end up spending $600k total after 30 years of minimum payments.  Saying my house cost $600k would be ridiculous. 

Nobody quotes the schools or any other projects with financing costs baked in.

 

Edited by RiverYuppy
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With a not so good commission report could this be the spark to get council approval. 
 

Richmond delegate's bill would devote state sales tax to $1.5B Navy Hill plan (Richmond Times-Dispatch)

Del. Jeff Bourne, D-Richmond, introduced a measure to allow Richmond to keep a portion of the state sales tax collected in an area bounded by Leigh Street, Franklin Street, Third Street and 10th Street. 

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6 minutes ago, cbl1 said:

With a not so good commission report could this be the spark to get council approval. 
 

Richmond delegate's bill would devote state sales tax to $1.5B Navy Hill plan (Richmond Times-Dispatch)

Del. Jeff Bourne, D-Richmond, introduced a measure to allow Richmond to keep a portion of the state sales tax collected in an area bounded by Leigh Street, Franklin Street, Third Street and 10th Street. 

Was just writing about this one, here was my post as you beat me to it!

Did anyone else read or hear about this?  The General Assembly introduced a bill to shrink the special tax zone (TIF) by allowing access to state sales taxes within areas of the TIF.   This would reduce the size of the TIF,  would borrow less, helps the financing package.  This has not passed, yet, but I'm happy to see that the state is looking at ways to make this project happen.  

 

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18 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Pretty sure this would make the project happen if approved.

Was also glad to see that this has been done before as the article said  - "the state approved a similar carve-out for Virginia Beach in 2018 as officials there pursued a major development project."  which I guess was for the pro basketball arena that was proposed.  

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3 hours ago, Hike said:

Was also glad to see that this has been done before as the article said  - "the state approved a similar carve-out for Virginia Beach in 2018 as officials there pursued a major development project."  which I guess was for the pro basketball arena that was proposed.  

Unfortunately for VB, their project died. Hope that doing this is not a death knell for the project. 

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1 hour ago, eandslee said:

Unfortunately for VB, their project died. Hope that doing this is not a death knell for the project. 

 

42 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Wasn’t the reason. 

What was the reason?  I'm guessing and I should know but wasn't it because the NBA didn't expand here or whatever team was considering relocating here didn't?  

Edited by Hike

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I think the Virginia Beach one had a developer that was having issues getting all the investors / financing lined up.   One thing going for the Richmond version is that its not a for profit speculative developer but a non-profit trying to make this happen for the city.

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26 minutes ago, Hike said:

That's true, I really get discouraged and hate reading the comments on most all articles in the RTD.  It's one of those things where I'll read the article and then say to myself, don't read the comments, and then I stupidly click and read them, it's like crack cocaine, I can't seem to stop myself.  Right before I click on the comments after having told myself no, I say this time will be different, whoever commented will be like me, we're all on the same page this time,  I know it this time, then I read them and nope, the comments are all  like - not my taxes,  what bout'my schools, my trashcans,  my alley needs paving,  trailer hitches,  (ron), hallelujah & period, (that guy)...then I close the comments and say, next time I'm not going to read them, then I do it all over again.

Yep, I make this mistake every time.  The schools!!

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I'm sure there are rehabs for this addiction.  It will be tough but just hang in there.

Edited by Shakman
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I think that the comment section draws the most vocal people.  

 

If you take a look at the RVA subreddit it would appear so many have made up their minds.  However, if you scroll to the end of a census about the users for that subreddit, you'll see two thirds were undecided about the project as of then. 

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11 minutes ago, RiverYuppy said:

I think that the comment section draws the most vocal people.  

If you take a look at the RVA subreddit it would appear so many have made up their minds.  However, if you scroll to the end of a census about the users for that subreddit, you'll see two thirds were undecided about the project as of then. 

Didn't even know this existed. 

Edited by Hike

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The CoStar news is interesting and is the kind of thing that could sway me on this development.  That said, how much space do they occupy in the WestRock building?  Could the additional people move into that building?   Would the additional jobs move to Richmond regardless of Navy Hill? Moving employees from one part of downtown to another isn’t really progress.  
 

I like the enthusiasm and commitment to Richmond.  How big is 400k square feet?  Is this “tower” six floors tall like some of the other projects that get called “towers”?  

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