New Richmond Arena

[Brent114]

Happy to have dodged the ugly,  fiscally disastrous and fake-ass Navy Hill. 
 

Partying feels right. 

[Henrico Weather]

12 hours ago, Hike said:

Thought you were being funny on the part below,   there may be beer involved. 

"Sorry, but we have a representative system so that our council persons can be educated on an issue and make informed decisions."

Yeah, that sounds good in theory, right? 

12 hours ago, Asace88 said:

The people that ooppose this kind of stuff are the same ones always standing outside of City Hall eager for them to open the doors so they can rush inside with their neon pink signs saying “NO NAVY HILL!  WHAT ABOUT THE SCHOOLS?”  

Yes, exactly. I have a Facebook friend who spent her whole day, every day, posting anti-Navy Hill stuff and raging about Dominion and Tom Farrell. And, I'm always wondering, "Why the f**k are you so wound up about this that you spend your whole life obsessing about it?" And I don't think she even lives in the city! 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Henrico Weather

[Icetera]

One thing I do not understand: I have been seeing a new movement raising awareness of evictions that appears to also be against Navy Hill.  In order to prevent evictions, we need more housing.  Navy Hill included affordable housing and market-rate in an area with currently no housing.  No one is going to build the affordable as long as market-rate is filling so fast (unless there is some incentive...) and the new housing is going to happen regardless as long as demand is high.  This just ensures more of that new housing and renovations are done in such a way as to lead to more evictions of lower-paying tenants.

[marinog711]

So when the vote of Navy hill becomes an official no go...  Who is down to meet up and pour out a little liquor for what Navy Hill could of been???    

[RiverYuppy]

When it rains it pours. 

CoStar looking for new offices for 3,000-plus employees with Navy Hill project on verge of failure

 

From the CEO, Andrew Florence

Quote

"I would stress that we will always have a very significant commitment to Richmond. The question is we can’t grow in the building we are in now so we need to move for growth and the question is where does that growth occur," Florence said.

"We are focused on Richmond but looking at other areas," he said. "We are looking for a place that can handle 3,000-plus people. We have to get going on this ... either in Richmond, or Henrico or Northern Virginia or D.C. or wherever."

 

[eandslee]

Saying yes to this development is a no-brainer!  Council is just stupid. 

[Ward Wood]

Yea I saw that @RiverYuppy maybe I am frustrated right now but it even makes me want to live up here in the dc region longer (As much as I want Richmond to thrive). I don’t think the council understands the horrendous decision they are making. So with that, we all need to reach out to Kim Gray, Chris Hilbert, Kristen Larson, Stephanie Lynch and Reva Trammell. Do it on Twitter, Facebook, in person, by mail whatever you can do. The loss of jobs, VCU, arena, entertainment, tax revenue, housing is just too much to keep saying how pissed off all of us are commenting at each other.

[RVA-Is-The-Best]

So, uh, let's just list out some of the things that would have come with this Navy Hill development:

• VCU health expansion (on taxable land that will continually generate tax revenue)
• New towers for Doorways and Ronald McDonald House foundations
• CoStar expansion (potential for signature tower as mentioned by CEO) with 3,000+ employees to the new location
• ECHL hockey league expansion team (as the owner of one team mentioned it would happen if the arena got built)
• GRTC transfer station
• Signature convention hotel (Hyatt apparently signed off on it)
• Residential towers (I think this is the only thing that isn't totally dependent on Navy Hill)

 

With all this in mind, though I try and remain impartial while watching the sides bicker on here, I can't help but think City Council is myopically throwing away a golden opportunity here

Edited February 6, 2020 by RVA-Is-The-Best

[Brent114]

VCU will expand if and when they need to.  An arena has nothing to do with it. 
The  “taxable” land is a joke.  The city wouldn’t see any taxes from the property for 30 years anyway (and by then a renovation would be financed for another 30).  Doorways already exists in that area.  Rebuilding it a block away isn’t real progress. 
 

CoStar likes to move the goalpost.  A magical 1000 extra employees appear because the city won’t build them a new building?   Nothing is stopping CoStar from expanding (and there is plenty of space in the CBD for them to occupy). They are looking for a handout. 
 

The GRTC transfer station wasn’t going to be located in Navy Hill anyway.  That money will come from the feds when built.  Tying it to the arena was just a distraction. 


 

 

[RiverYuppy]

2 hours ago, Brent114 said:

Nothing is stopping CoStar from expanding (and there is plenty of space in the CBD for them to occupy).

They want all 3k people to be under the same building.

There is no building with that amount of space available or planned in the city.

Quote

“We have filled everything available to us in the current building,” he said. “We have stopped hiring. We need to have something longer term.”

 

Edited February 6, 2020 by RiverYuppy

[vaceltic]

1 hour ago, RiverYuppy said:

They want all 3k people to be under the same building.

There is no building with that amount of space available or planned in the city.

 

Maybe they can put it on Cary Street next to Dominion Tower when the old one is demolished.

It’s mere weeks before final votes and Dominion hasn’t committed to build the second tower, by the way.

Yet, the entire arena bond financing package (and therefore Navy Hill) only works assuming the second tower is built. Bonds do not get issued by banks and financiers for the city to construct anything without this guarantee!! 

[hokiehigh]

9 hours ago, RiverYuppy said:

They want all 3k people to be under the same building.

There is no building with that amount of space available or planned in the city.

 

I came over to see what’s going on with Costar.   I noticed on Charlotte Development Twitter that Charlotte may have its eyes on attracting Costar. Are these jobs really up for grabs now that Navy Hill stumbled?

[wrldcoupe4]

The deal was originally supposed to go to Charlotte a few years ago, but Richmond was the beneficiary thanks to the bathroom bill in North Carolina at the time.

[hokiehigh]

55 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

The deal was originally supposed to go to Charlotte a few years ago, but Richmond was the beneficiary thanks to the bathroom bill in North Carolina at the time.

Thanks for the info.   I didn’t realize that happened.   Glad that whole debacle is behind us. I’m a fan of RVA.  Hopefully the city gets this straightened out.   I bet other cities are ready to pounce on those jobs. 

[wrldcoupe4]

Timely email from Henrico EDA:

"How Henrico's Yes Attitude Brings Business Visions to Life"

http://news.henrico.com/work/how-henricos-yes-attitude-brings-business-visions-to-life

[eandslee]

Well, it was quiet today in this front.  I hope a rabbit is being pulled out of a hat. The sad thing is that if this fails, Richmond will be worse off than if the proposal had never existed.  Businesses are going to run even more since the city is not being business friendly and no company wants to deal with the $h!t show known as City Council. I really hate to see all of this happen this way. Things just should have been different. I’m still holding out hope, but I’m also preparing myself for the worst.  Good luck Richmond!

[eandslee]

17 minutes ago, Hike said:

Not to pour salt on our wounds as we wait for the rabbit but my other concern is timing. There's a lot of conversation about letting developments happen organically, etc. That may be an option, but we all know this economy isn't going to last forever,  once it's gone or slows, I wonder what happens then and how long until the next big idea comes along.  I know, sayers of neigh, tell me that doesn't mean Richmond has to jump on this because of timing.  The wait for the next time is my concern, and I'll bet the next one will be perfect, all boxes checked, zero down and zero financing, no risk, every thing will be free and we all live happily ever after...

I’m not so sure.  I think this, if Council kills it, is the last time you will see a deal anywhere close to this.  I think it’s too risky to bet on a “next time,” because next time just might not come (developers will be turned off).  Is the plan perfect?  No, but it’s pretty damn good...worth a debate to make better and is way better than anything ever before proposed in the city.  I can understand people being afraid based on past mistakes, but I really do believe this time is different...seriously!  I really do believe that those behind the NH project really want Richmond to succeed and have invested a lot of their time, money and their good will to make Richmond an even better place. I think they have a lot riding on this...and that this was something worth pursuing. The big business leaders have their companies here - they wouldn’t want the city they call home to fail, nor the citizens upon which they rely.  To do something nefarious is counter intuitive.  They are not evil people out to suck every dime from every citizen’s pocket.  They are successful people just wanting to do some good for the community they call home.

Edited February 6, 2020 by eandslee

[cbl1]

What irritates me is headlines like "2 billion" "1.5 billion dollar project" - I mean you would read the headlines and you would think the city is paying over a billion dollars for the development.

Why don't all the private developers and the private money going into the project ever get talked about.    And everyone likes to inflate the city portion of the project like they are spending $600+ million on the project.   It's $300 million people plus interest - pay it off sooner the other figures are meaningless.   $600 million 30 years from now does not equate to $600 million in todays taxpayers dollars ----- its not todays dollars.  To me the misinformation is coming from the anti-Navy Hill crowd.   I mean how many economists does it take to tell you $600million paid over the next 30 years has a net present value of $300million today.  The cost is $300million …. period.   Are car dealers supposed to be advertising now that $30,000 car you just got a loan for should really have a $37,000 price tag on the window (cost with interest over 5 years).

I would think with the VCU and CoStar additions along with everything else we have been hearing …. the city puts down $300million and they get in return $300 million in infrastructure improvements that bring about nearly $2 billion in private investment just to start.  If this were the economic development department they would be all over this … 

The other thing that irritates me is people act like all the money is going to Dominion Energy … its some grand scheme by the navy hill group to milk the city of money.   It's all to line Dominion Energy's pockets ….. when Dominion Energy is getting a grand total $0 dollars from the deal and is going to actually pay $30million toward the coliseum itself (if naming rights stories are correct).   So actually Dominion Energy is 1) going to end up building a second $50million+ tower at its expense that will raise taxes to help the city pay down the bond and 2) will pay $30million in cash (so yes Richmond over 10% of the cost of the coliseum itself is coming from Private Sector then) to the city to help offset the coliseum costs.      How freakin' greedy!  Actually if you hate Dominion Energy so much vote Pro-Navy Hill … because if it gets voted down your actually going to save Dominion $80million.     So Richmond wants to partner with the private sector on a coliseum … just not Dominion Energy ????   None of the anti-Navy Hill big talking points make any sense.

Edited February 7, 2020 by cbl1

[vaceltic]

Cbl, you actually put that argument in writing!!  have you ever managed a bank-financed debt in your life?

a 30-year mortgage on a $100K DOES NOT equate to $100k cost over 30 years in today’s dollars!

Show us a single bank that issues 0% interest 30-year loans to ANYONE.  Do not understand the time value loss of money and inflation? 

Please google a simple mortgage or debt calculator online, try it out, and see the results.  Here's a simple one for everyone to learn from.

Edited February 7, 2020 by vaceltic
Education

[cbl1]

Make up whatever numbers you want.  I said what is the net present value of the payments.  A $100,000 payment on the bonds 25 years from now does not equal $100,000 in today’s dollars so you can’t go around quoting the dollars spent over 30 years time and act like that is the cost in today’s dollars - it is highly misleading  

 

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by cbl1

[cbl1]

If you want to get into real costs year to year above the $300mlion initial Infrastructure investment  you can look at the rate over inflation as to cost.

assuming the 5% bond rate and 2.3% inflation.   The city will be paying $439k above inflation each month.  That equates to $5.27million per year it will be costing the city if it takes 30 years to pay off the Loan.    So it could be legitimately said the cost to the city in today’s dollars is $458million.  

[Icetera]

I wonder what rates the developers would be paying.  Can we call their portion $2 billion then?  Yay, we turned down $2 billion in private investment!  Go us!

[cbl1]

What your only supposed to put down your opinions in writing if your anti-navy Hill ... all those fake numbers thrown around add up.   All arguments for them should just be dismissed off hand. 

Edited February 7, 2020 by cbl1

[RiverYuppy]

I have a mortgage on my house and I purchased it for about $300k.

I don't tell people the cost of the house with financing prices (in dollars unadjusted for inflation) baked in,  I tell them it cost $300k and everybody simply understands that interest is part of having a mortgage.  When my mom asked me "How much is the house going to cost" it would have been ridiculous for me to tell her "Close to $600k." 

Additionally, the city finances tons of things.  When we build a new school, bridge, park, bus line, infrastructure improvement, etc. and get a loan, I have never heard the price quoted with financing costs baked in.

So I guess the question is, why is the arena the only project ever proposed by the city that gets financing costs baked into the cost we put in headlines? 

Edited February 7, 2020 by RiverYuppy

[DalWill]

23 minutes ago, RiverYuppy said:

I have a mortgage on my house and I purchased it for about $300k.

I don't tell people the cost of the house with financing prices (in dollars unadjusted for inflation) baked in,  I tell them it cost $300k and everybody simply understands that interest is part of having a mortgage.  When my mom asked me "How much is the house going to cost" it would have been ridiculous for me to tell her "Close to $600k." 

Additionally, the city finances tons of things.  When we build a new school, bridge, park, bus line, infrastructure improvement, etc. and get a loan, I have never heard the price quoted with financing costs baked in.

So I guess the question is, why is the arena the only project ever proposed by the city that gets financing costs baked into the cost we put in headlines? 

Good Point.