New Richmond Arena

[Icetera]

21 minutes ago, RVA-Is-The-Best said:

Historic, frustrating moment. 

I'm now more worried about CoStar than anything else actually 

Same.  That and the $540k direct loss in annual real estate tax from 700 Canal demo.  Potentially missing out on $3.5 million if second tower is not built.  Loss of potential 3k jobs in the city plus direct loss of 1k.

[georgeglass]

1 hour ago, marinog711 said:

She will be too tired to run!!

You know it's coming and I will do whatever I can to support another viable candidate.  I do not care for her. She is a divisive self-promoter without solutions to real problems. 

[Icetera]

6 minutes ago, georgeglass said:

You know it's coming and I will do whatever I can to support another viable candidate.  I do not care for her. She is a divisive self-promoter without solutions to real problems. 

Per another council member, apparently none of the others get along with her.  She may not have a chance anyway.

[Shakman]

1 hour ago, Icetera said:

Same.  That and the $540k direct loss in annual real estate tax from 700 Canal demo.  Potentially missing out on $3.5 million if second tower is not built.  Loss of potential 3k jobs in the city plus direct loss of 1k.

Let's not forget about potential sales tax revenue lost from hockey games at the arena since there was an announcement of a team if this deal went through.

 

Are there any clinical psychologist who will provide group discounts for those of us traumatized by this City Council debacle?

Edited February 11, 2020 by Shakman

[Brent114]

Costar’s existence in Richmond has zero to do with NH.  They will build or rent more space if/when they need it.  A shiny arena  will not be a factor in that hundred million dollar decision.  Shareholders make that call, not Kim Gray. 

 

Dominion’s  second tower has zero to do with NH.  Dominion will build more space if/when they need it.  Their name on a shiny arena will not be a factor in that hundred million dollar decision.  Shareholders make that call, not Kim Gray.
 

Their bluffs were extortion.  Two companies are making up employment figures (out of thin air) to strong-arm the city into providing massive giveaways.  
Richmond doesn’t need to give Costar a new building that will not generate any tax for the city for 30 years. 
 

Soeaking of deferred taxes... another problem with the folks pushing this project is all of the false information and hyperbole they are putting out.  The city IS receiving taxes from rehabbed properties.  It is true that the city isn’t receiving taxes on the current assessed value but they continue to collect taxes on the properties based on their pre-renovation assessments.  It is also true that most of the properties in Church Hill, Manchester and Scott’s Addition are aging out of that tax break ( I’d guess most will age out  in the next 2-3 years).   All of the new infill is being taxed at market rate. 
 

The only tax generated by Navy Hill is based on unsubstantiated attendance figures and unrealistic room rates and number of hotel stay (because none of the property tax collected would go to the city for 30 years).   Most of the plan was ambiguous buildings with no stated purpose (clip art), moving existing parking decks, moving existing office workers out of downtown then replacing them with office workers  from the central business district. 
VCU claimed that they would build a new medical building.  We all know that they would anyway.

What we lost was an idea. It wasn’t by any stretch of the imagination a game changer.  It just moved various parts of the existing game into a tacky “neighborhood” that would have had all the charm and authenticity of West Broad Village. 
 

Kim is my Council person.  She has my vote.

[vaceltic]

The majority read of the project vote in this forum is, I’ll say again, totally off-base from reality. A 5-4 vote against needed to be 7-2 in favor, so which 3 people were going to change their vote?

Stoney and NHDC planned everything in secret and made everyone wait 2 years to get details. Only did information come out when they were forced to through a FOIA request.

When you peel back the analysis they purport is solid, Almost every assumption breaks down over the life of the project, and it’s supposed “benefit” to the general fund.

There is also a philosophical argument that many residents hold, where a cash-strapped City should not be investing in arena projects at all. 

Secretive planning, distrust of the analysis, and philosophical differences in funding priorities all came together to kill it. You can be someone who only believes in one of these things or all three and there were enough people who raised their voice in concern to convince the council this was a bad idea. It’s one of the rare times of political solidarity amongst people with Left-leaning and more extreme socialist democratic ideals, working alongside Moderate and more extreme fiscal conservatives to defeat an agenda with immense political weight And marketing money behind it.

This alarm bell has been going off in a sustained manner for several months With counter analysis, historical references, and complaints about the business records of those involved and the planning process - this was not a surge of opposition showing up last minute at a meeting with no backup and research behind it.

I guess we’ll see what happens in November, but I really think the read of the election is completely off base too. We’ll see. 

Stephanie Lynch is my councilwoman. I elected her in a special election last year and will do so again this year. If any of you live in her district, maybe we’ll discuss in person when I canvass for her re-election campaign.

Edited February 12, 2020 by vaceltic

[wrldcoupe4]

Brent - your comment has a lot of false information in it. 

[DalWill]

16 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Brent - your comment has a lot of false information in it. 

Care to flesh it out for folks please? 

[Asace88]

4 hours ago, Brent114 said:

What we lost was an idea. It wasn’t by any stretch of the imagination a game changer.  It just moved various parts of the existing game into a tacky “neighborhood” that would have had all the charm and authenticity of West Broad Village. 

You simply cannot downplay the significance of a $1.5 billion dollar development.  Navy Hill was not the kind of project that just shows up randomly every few months.  Navy Hill was a once in a generation type plan.  

Was the original financing plan questionable?  Absolutely.  But not giving anything a chance to negotiate or work with all parties involved to negotiate a better solution is childish, petty, stubborn, irresponsible, infuriating, etc.  The personal agendas on the opposition side disgust me.

What is most disappointing is that we, as Richmonders, all know what happens next.  There will be new RFP’s after several years of excruciatingly slow debate.  We will eventually (although I’m not even sure we are adept enough to pull it off) redevelop a new arena and “small” area around it.  It will be a watered-down, uninspired plan that will leave something to be desired and won’t draw nearly what we would hope.  The area will continue to be somewhat of a dead zone in the city and all of the original opposition will come out again and talk about how cities shouldn’t invest in arenas and it’s a waste of funds and resources.  Instead of doing something the right way (from a development standpoint) we will accept mediocrity and fall short again.  The “I told you so” crowd will puff out their chests and celebrate being masters of the universe.  

Oh and the school system will still suck.  But at least we didn’t let Dominion have a positive light shed on them.

And, Celtic, thanks for letting us know you are a political canvasser.  All of these interactions make so much more sense now.

 

[vaceltic]

28 minutes ago, Asace88 said:

You simply cannot downplay the significance of a $1.5 billion dollar development.  Navy Hill was not the kind of project that just shows up randomly every few months.  Navy Hill was a once in a generation type plan.  

Was the original financing plan questionable?  Absolutely.  But not giving anything a chance to negotiate or work with all parties involved to negotiate a better solution is childish, petty, stubborn, irresponsible, infuriating, etc.  The personal agendas on the opposition side disgust me.

What is most disappointing is that we, as Richmonders, all know what happens next.  There will be new RFP’s after several years of excruciatingly slow debate.  We will eventually (although I’m not even sure we are adept enough to pull it off) redevelop a new arena and “small” area around it.  It will be a watered-down, uninspired plan that will leave something to be desired and won’t draw nearly what we would hope.  The area will continue to be somewhat of a dead zone in the city and all of the original opposition will come out again and talk about how cities shouldn’t invest in arenas and it’s a waste of funds and resources.  Instead of doing something the right way (from a development standpoint) we will accept mediocrity and fall short again.  The “I told you so” crowd will puff out their chests and celebrate being masters of the universe.  

Oh and the school system will still suck.  But at least we didn’t let Dominion have a positive light shed on them.

And, Celtic, thanks for letting us know you are a political canvasser.  All of these interactions make so much more sense now.

 

Yup. I certainly will be for the first time coming up. Following this whole process has opened my eyes to the corporate greed, political gamesmanship, and back room deals that are typically shoved down local government throats.

not here. No more. Proud of my city for standing up. And I will do my part for those in decision-making roles that are mindful of that.

[RVA-Is-The-Best]

22 hours ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

Brent - your comment has a lot of false information in it. 

Interesting to  note an editor is making the comment and a moderator has liked it

Edited February 12, 2020 by RVA-Is-The-Best

[vaceltic]

3 hours ago, RVA-Is-The-Best said:

Definitely interesting when you note an editor is making the comment and a moderator has liked it

Yes. Arenas. Shiny things. My precioussssss.

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by vaceltic

[Icetera]

15 hours ago, vaceltic said:

Stephanie Lynch is my councilwoman. I elected her in a special election last year and will do so again this year. If any of you live in her district, maybe we’ll discuss in person when I canvass for her re-election campaign.

I will say, while Reva and Kim were extremely disrespectful to the public, fellow council members, and the process in general, Lynch was among the respectable members.  Unfortunately, I do think she is naive to believe that a reset of the process is going to generate anything positive at this point.  That bridge is burned.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Icetera

[Shakman]

The Council's  @#$%* up has really soured my mood.  As a former Richmond resident but still home in my heart, I am very sad and upset on the continual missed opportunities due to overly cautious and uneducated decision makers.  Let's continue to enjoy Richmond being a "bedroom" community to Charlotte.     

Edited February 12, 2020 by Shakman

[RVA-Is-The-Best]

Think we should all take a breather and wait for this to blow over

We'll reset  when hopefully a new development news will break on BizSense and excite us again. The Navy Hill thing is turning members of this forum against each other.

[Icetera]

1 minute ago, RVA-Is-The-Best said:

Think we should all take a breather and wait for this to blow over

We'll reset  when hopefully a new development news will break on BizSense and excite us again. The Navy Hill thing is turning members of this forum against each other.

Dammit, now you have me looking at all of the purple in the Navy Yard development thanks to your sig

[RVA-Is-The-Best]

35 minutes ago, Icetera said:

Dammit, now you have me looking at all of the purple in the Navy Yard development thanks to your sig

Haha. I never got around to doing it and now it's dead, but I always thought about breaking the whole development down into its comprising parts (such as the VCU medical center, the arena itself, the CoStar site, the Hyatt site), basically as I've done with The Locks

Probably is useless to do now but when you look at all the components, this was one hell of a proposal

edit: my fogged up brain looked at the thread name, looked at your comment and misread Navy Yard as Navy Hill

Edited February 12, 2020 by RVA-Is-The-Best

[Virginian11]

So, what would be the board’s best guess in terms of timeline for next steps to new proposals?  I’m dug in for the long haul, but I’m antsy.    

[Icetera]

14 minutes ago, Virginian11 said:

So, what would be the board’s best guess in terms of timeline for next steps to new proposals?  I’m dug in for the long haul, but I’m antsy.    

I do not even want to speculate on that.  We have been talking about the area for around a decade now.  If the Diamond is any indicator, maybe two more decades (assuming Diamond is finally getting traction)?

Realistically, though, it took three years to get this plan out after being initiated by an interested party.  Talk had been in the works several years prior to that (2013 or so?) with the arena being closer to MCV and focused on basketball (NCAA) at 12k seating.  I would imagine at best, the RFP process would start in a year.  IF (big IF) we somehow land an interested party, after rebuking most of the local players, I imagine the RFP process would take another year then another three years for a plan to be put together.  So, five years at best to begin construction and another 3-5 to complete?

Edited February 12, 2020 by Icetera

[DalWill]

54 minutes ago, Icetera said:

I do not even want to speculate on that.  We have been talking about the area for around a decade now.  If the Diamond is any indicator, maybe two more decades (assuming Diamond is finally getting traction)?

Realistically, though, it took three years to get this plan out after being initiated by an interested party.  Talk had been in the works several years prior to that (2013 or so?) with the arena being closer to MCV and focused on basketball (NCAA) at 12k seating.  I would imagine at best, the RFP process would start in a year.  IF (big IF) we somehow land an interested party, after rebuking most of the local players, I imagine the RFP process would take another year then another three years for a plan to be put together.  So, five years at best to begin construction and another 3-5 to complete?

Do you think the plan can be reintroduced with a different council IF Stoney is still in office? And possibly connect with The  Pamukey Tribe to turn the whole block private? They have a casino in the works, could they negotiate the land with Dominion?

[wrldcoupe4]

This is going to be set back for years and maybe forever. And there is no way anyone in the administration is handing Kim Gray a victory by getting the boulevard RFP going anytime soon. There’s no point in having this thread for the foreseeable future. 

[DalWill]

25 minutes ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

This is going to be set back for years and maybe forever. And there is no way anyone in the administration is handing Kim Gray a victory by getting the boulevard RFP going anytime soon. There’s no point in having this thread for the foreseeable future. 

Nope, keep this thread up till elections.

[vaceltic]

1 hour ago, DalWill said:

Do you think the plan can be reintroduced with a different council IF Stoney is still in office? And possibly connect with The  Pamukey Tribe to turn the whole block private? They have a casino in the works, could they negotiate the land with Dominion?

First part is doubtful. Developer staff like Michael Hallmark will have Gypsied into the next arena starved city for their next project by then.

While the second question would actually have some synergies there, I doubt this as well. Pamunkey already bought the land on southside. Dominion owns none of the land in Navy Hill by the way, the City does.

 

Edited February 13, 2020 by vaceltic

[Icetera]

1 hour ago, DalWill said:

Do you think the plan can be reintroduced with a different council IF Stoney is still in office? And possibly connect with The  Pamukey Tribe to turn the whole block private? They have a casino in the works, could they negotiate the land with Dominion?

That could be interesting considering the casino in Norfolk is going next to the baseball stadium and Amtrak station (with LRT connectivity).  Having that in the center would have been some amazing synergy but I doubt that would ever be allowed.

[jbjust]

3 hours ago, DalWill said:

Do you think the plan can be reintroduced with a different council IF Stoney is still in office? And possibly connect with The  Pamukey Tribe to turn the whole block private? They have a casino in the works, could they negotiate the land with Dominion?

Nothing says "classy" like having an Indian Casino right in the middle of your downtown.