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eandslee

New Richmond Arena

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52 minutes ago, eandslee said:

As I literally sit at the Charlotte airport (an airport that has a hub that should have been ours), I’m so sick and tired of the self-defeating, the “Richmond can’t...[you fill in the blank]” attitude that is so rampant in this town!  It is most frustrating!  This city needs to stop shooting for the singles and doubles and shoot for the home runs!!  Attitudes, vision, and leadership needs to change.  Richmond has been moving in the right direction, but damn people...this crap has got to change!!!

A-(expletive-deleted)-MEN, brother!!  It is as embarrassing as it is frustrating. I'll add a corollary to "Richmond can't...:

"Richmond doesn't need ... _________ ... " or "Richmond doesn't need to ... ________ ..." 

As you said - self-defeating. And by shooting for singles or the occasional double, how often has Richmond either struck out or hit an infield popup? 

I totally feel you on the airline hub issue - it's been a burr in my backside for over 40 years. I STILL remember feeling kicked in the stomach when I saw the "thanks but no thanks" story on Channel 12 some 42 years ago. When it was reported that Piedmont was going to Charlotte, I recall thinking "Charlotte? Where is that?" That's part of why I can only be so happy that RIC has topped 4 1/2 million annual passengers. Let's see .. only about 42 million behind Charlotte-Douglas.

Will the small-town attitude, lack of vision and leadership vacuum ever change? 

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12 minutes ago, eandslee said:

One can only hope.  I don’t mind leading the charge either!!  

The NIMBYS in Richmond are a deadly cancer that need to be cut out.  I’m not saying that Richmond needs to be reckless, but dude, you can’t pass up on developments that will make a big difference served on a silver platter!  You have to take some risks and have an aggressive vision.  Just think if Richmond would have risked accepting the airline hub 42 years ago!?  That alone would have totally changed Richmond...for the better!  Now, we celebrate when we hit 4 million annual passengers!  Dude, our airport should be doing 4 million passengers almost every month and we should have leadership driving toward that goal!!  That’s vision, that’s aggressive, and that’s leadership. Why be satisfied with the status quo or slow to moderate growth?  We are behind folks and we’re getting left in the dust by our “peer” cities.  Not really peers anymore because they are out-pacing us!

Those of you asking yourself...”Well, what if we don’t want to grow that big?” then go and live out in the country.  There is plenty of land west of Richmond.   Richmond is a CITY!

Boy, this feels good to get off my chest!  Ha ha

AMEN to EVERYTHING you said!

Preach, my brother! PREACH!!!

I kid you not - I have HEARD that very attitude verbalized over the years. "Well, Richmond doesn't want to be New York or Atlanta or (pick BIG city of choice)..."  or "Richmond's not about that. We're about HISTORY..."

Really????

And since WHEN does being about "history" have as a prerequisite to try to stay as small-town as possible? May I respectfully point to Boston and Philadelphia - two cities with as much, if not FAR more history to "show off" -- but nowhere was it written in their charters that they shouldn't grow as big as possible. Anyone who has ever been to both knows they are two fantastic major-league cities.

I am still floored to have learned that Raleigh-Durham's airport topped 14 million passengers last year. (14.2M - after posting 11.6M and 12.8M passengers in 2017 and 2018 respectively).

Again I ask...  "whither Richmond?"

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4 hours ago, eandslee said:

As I literally sit at the Charlotte airport (an airport that has a hub that should have been ours), I’m so sick and tired of the self-defeating, the “Richmond can’t...[you fill in the blank]” attitude that is so rampant in this town!  It is most frustrating!  This city needs to stop shooting for the singles and doubles and shoot for the home runs!!  Attitudes, vision, and leadership needs to change.  Richmond has been moving in the right direction, but damn people...this crap has got to change!!!

Amen!!! 

2 minutes ago, Richmonopoly said:

Amen!!! 

 

2 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

AMEN to EVERYTHING you said!

Preach, my brother! PREACH!!!

I kid you not - I have HEARD that very attitude verbalized over the years. "Well, Richmond doesn't want to be New York or Atlanta or (pick BIG city of choice)..."  or "Richmond's not about that. We're about HISTORY..."

Really????

And since WHEN does being about "history" have as a prerequisite to try to stay as small-town as possible? May I respectfully point to Boston and Philadelphia - two cities with as much, if not FAR more history to "show off" -- but nowhere was it written in their charters that they shouldn't grow as big as possible. Anyone who has ever been to both knows they are two fantastic major-league cities.

I am still floored to have learned that Raleigh-Durham's airport topped 14 million passengers last year. (14.2M - after posting 11.6M and 12.8M passengers in 2017 and 2018 respectively).

Again I ask...  "whither Richmond?"

I posted this in another thread, but not only does Raleigh have a pro-business mentality, but they land concerts and sporting events in a pretty nice concert arena.  
 

(The number of large universities help, too, of course). 

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4 hours ago, Richmonopoly said:

Amen!!! 

 

I posted this in another thread, but not only does Raleigh have a pro-business mentality, but they land concerts and sporting events in a pretty nice concert arena.  
 

(The number of large universities help, too, of course). 

And an NHL team that has won a Stanley Cup... so there's plenty of NAME RECOGNITION just from that!

See - the "oh, we don't need a shiny new arena" crowd don't seem to understand that having a sports team (major league, obviously) and getting on television GIVES A CITY NAME RECOGNITION across a much wider audience!!!

"Richmond... ummm you mean, Virginia?"

They don't say that about Charlotte or Atlanta or Dallas, now do they!?

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11 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

"Richmond... ummm you mean, Virginia?"

They don't say that about Charlotte or Atlanta or Dallas, now do they!?

To be fair, the others do not have any other significant locales sharing their name.  There is a larger difference in size between Portland, OR and Portland, ME, yet many on the East coast will think of Maine first.

I did just learn, however, that Richmond, CA is actually named after Richmond, VA.

Quote

The name "Richmond" appears to predate actual incorporation by more than fifty years. Edmund Randolph, originally from Richmond, Virginia, represented the city of San Francisco when California's first legislature met in San Jose in December 1849, and he became state assemblyman from San Francisco. His loyalty to the town of his birth caused him to persuade a federal surveying party mapping the San Francisco Bay to place the names "Point Richmond" and "Richmond" on an 1854 geodetic coast map, which was the geodetic map at the terminal selected by the San Francisco and San Joaquin Valley Railroad; and by 1899 maps made by the railroad carried the name "Point Richmond Avenue", designating a county road that later became Barrett Avenue, a central street in Richmond.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond,_California#History

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People north of VA , south of SC and west of the Blue Ridge couldn't tell you if Charlotte is in N.C. or SC.  Columbia, Charlotte, Charlottesville...it all a blur to people outside of its orbit.

You cannot build an identity  with a random NFL or NBA team (random because they are all basically the same and every mid-large city has one so it’s a wash).  The population that cares isn’t as large as you think. 
 

No one in Richmond should be looking to Charlotte  (or Raleigh or even Atlanta) as a role model.  It offers nothing that cannot be found dozens of times over across North America. 
 

Navy Hill was never a thing.  They packaged existing buildings and parking decks and moved around assets.  It brought nothing new to Richmond and was nothing more than generic marking materials.

Y’all are acting like your life is ruined because your mom threw out your vision board.  

Edited by Brent114
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Can anyone who is a Charlotte fanboy in here explain what makes Charlotte an interesting place? 
 

I recently took an extended excursion to visit Charlotte and Asheville and honestly couldn’t wait for the Asheville part.

It was my third time visiting Charlotte over about a 10-year period and I’ve been trying to give it an honest chance. It left me pretty disappointed like the first two times.

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Its been a pretty tough pill to swallow facing the fact that I am now reading articles like "Chase Bank opens a new location in SHort Pump"   or " three Sisters take a Bite out of the Fan with the opening of Sibling Rivalry Bakery"....  When we should of  been reading articles with renderings that would excite us like Co-star hdq bldg - 20story tall, Hyatt hotel - 22 story and etc...  Even the fact that we are still having a conversation about comparing ourselves to other cities shows how slow things are.  Big disappointment!

and guess what... I am one that does care about sports teams and entertainment .  and I am not afraid to admit it!. 

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Yeah and I am tired of hitting singles.... I get stuck at  first base enough in my personal life...  I am tired of Richmond and myself getting friend zoned.... We want the end zone...  I WANT TO SCORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by marinog711
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2 hours ago, Brent114 said:

People north of VA , south of SC and west of the Blue Ridge couldn't tell you if Charlotte is in N.C. or SC.  Columbia, Charlotte, Charlottesville...it all a blur to people outside of its orbit.

You cannot build an identity  with a random NFL or NBA team (random because they are all basically the same and every mid-large city has one so it’s a wash).  The population that cares isn’t as large as you think. 
 

No one in Richmond should be looking to Charlotte  (or Raleigh or even Atlanta) as a role model.  It offers nothing that cannot be found dozens of times over across North America. 
 

Navy Hill was never a thing.  They packaged existing buildings and parking decks and moved around assets.  It brought nothing new to Richmond and was nothing more than generic marking materials.

Y’all are acting like your life is ruined because your mom threw out your vision board.  

It's not even so much just about Navy Hill. It's about Richmond's long track record of not having the balls to step up to the plate and do those things that would have vaulted her to top-tier city status 30, 40, 50 years ago when opportunity after opportunity has presented itself. It's about the NIMBY (and for that matter the preservationist) mindset. It's about being OK with modest growth that keeps us behind other cities we were once ahead of. 

Dude, my vision board has been thrown out repeatedly for the past 50 years. It keeps being throw out the window. What pisses me off is not that it gets thrown out - but that somehow I'm supposed to be happy about it because that's the "Richmond way". Sorry, but I call BS.

As for role models for Richmond, quite frankly 40 or 50 years ago, I was looking more at cities like Boston. The thought of Richmond being the "next Atlanta" way back when was related primarily to the fact that both are Southern cities (although Richmond has a lot of Northeast in her), and the fact that she was poised to grow explosively the way Atlanta had done in the previous couple of decades. While Atlanta was hitting home runs, Richmond was in the on-deck circle. Something weird happened tho, and she got replaced in the lineup by Charlotte. We've yet to leave the dugout since.

 

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1 hour ago, marinog711 said:

Even the fact that we are still having a conversation about comparing ourselves to other cities shows how slow things are.  Big disappointment!

and guess what... I am one that does care about sports teams and entertainment .  and I am not afraid to admit it!. 

Perfectly said. That we are having to compare ourselves to other cities shows how far behind we really are. New York compares itself to no one. Neither does LA. Apples and oranges, I realize, but the point should be obvious.

And ditto on the sports teams and top-flight entertainment. I care a lot about that as well. Richmonders have to go to other places for this stuff. It should be the other way around -- folks from far and wide come to Richmond.

1 hour ago, Henrico Weather said:

Point is, we could have both Richmond's history and character AND Charlotte's vitality. But, sure, let's just wallow in our history and sink to the bottom. 

20191230_180145.jpg

 

THANK YOU!!!!  My point exactly!!!

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With all due respect I miss Richmond, you live 870 miles away.  Richmond has most definitely “beefed up” over the last 40 years. 
 

Richmond didn’t become the airline hub for an airline that hasn’t existed since the early 1980’s.  Boo-hoo.  It’s my understanding that much of what held Richmond back, if you consider maintaining one of the highest standards of living  (health outcomes, education attainment, income)  in the South, was state law regulating banking. 
 

Again, Navy Hill was merely in the vision board state.  It wasn’t  even a good vision.  Look closely at the actual plan.  You’ll see that most of it is existing buildings.  The new buildings would be a result of demolishing a building on one block then rebuilding it two blocks over.   It’s last gasps was a promise to leave a hole in CBD by moving employees away from Kanawaha Plaza (which the city just spent 10’s of millions of dollars to renovate) .  
 

Can any fan boys of NH point to any concrete plan that was a net gain for Richmond?   
 

For the record, I don’t really care about the schools.  I’m fine with a city of young professionals and empty nesters, quite frankly.  The location is my primary concern.  This area doesn’t need to be a fake neighborhood.  Just last week plans to move forward on a new bio-tech building were announced.  The lot on which it is being built is within the NH planned area.  Navy Hill isn’t necessary for this area to grow. Invest the money in Monroe Ward or in Manchester...somewhere that it is needed and can spur other growth (NH is isolated, cut off by Shockoe Valley/95 and government and hospital buildings.  There’s no where for it to grow).   

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1 hour ago, Brent114 said:

With all due respect I miss Richmond, you live 870 miles away.  Richmond has most definitely “beefed up” over the last 40 years. 
 

Richmond didn’t become the airline hub for an airline that hasn’t existed since the early 1980’s.  Boo-hoo.  It’s my understanding that much of what held Richmond back, if you consider maintaining one of the highest standards of living  (health outcomes, education attainment, income)  in the South, was state law regulating banking. 
 

Again, Navy Hill was merely in the vision board state.  It wasn’t  even a good vision.  Look closely at the actual plan.  You’ll see that most of it is existing buildings.  The new buildings would be a result of demolishing a building on one block then rebuilding it two blocks over.   It’s last gasps was a promise to leave a hole in CBD by moving employees away from Kanawaha Plaza (which the city just spent 10’s of millions of dollars to renovate) .  
 

Can any fan boys of NH point to any concrete plan that was a net gain for Richmond?   
 

For the record, I don’t really care about the schools.  I’m fine with a city of young professionals and empty nesters, quite frankly.  The location is my primary concern.  This area doesn’t need to be a fake neighborhood.  Just last week plans to move forward on a new bio-tech building were announced.  The lot on which it is being built is within the NH planned area.  Navy Hill isn’t necessary for this area to grow. Invest the money in Monroe Ward or in Manchester...somewhere that it is needed and can spur other growth (NH is isolated, cut off by Shockoe Valley/95 and government and hospital buildings.  There’s no where for it to grow).   

You do know you're just proving everyone's point by saying this right?

Edited by DalWill
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26 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

It’s last gasps was a promise to leave a hole in CBD by moving employees away from Kanawaha Plaza (which the city just spent 10’s of millions of dollars to renovate) .  
 

Just last week plans to move forward on a new bio-tech building were announced.  The lot on which it is being built is within the NH planned area.  Navy Hill isn’t necessary for this area to grow. Invest the money in Monroe Ward or in Manchester...somewhere that it is needed and can spur other growth (NH is isolated, cut off by Shockoe Valley/95 and government and hospital buildings.  There’s no where for it to grow).   

What jobs were leaving the CBD?  CoStar?  Navy Hill area is more solidly in the CBD than Foundry Park.  Either way, CoStar needs space that is not in that building so they likely have to move regardless.  We also spent millions to develop the Marriott and Convention Center in conjunction with the Coliseum that is now defunct. Perhaps we should have required private investment in Kanawha Plaza instead of using city money.  

The big hole in the CBD currently IS the Navy Hill area.  The core of the city is what everything else in the region is built around.  This area is at the nexus of the city where all of the transportation (those isolating highways, main arteries, Amtrak, bus system), employment (City, State, Federal, VCU/MCV, Biotech, Financial District), and a lot of the cultural amenities (Performing Arts / Carpenter Center, the National, Convention Center, several museums, former arena) converge.

Manchester is less connected but it is growing just fine on its own.  Monroe Ward could use some incentives but it is not being held back by the city like our core and is slowing developing.  Between VCU and more jobs in the core, Monroe Ward should gain momentum.  Really, the other big area that needs city help is making the giant hole in Shockoe Bottom feasible for development.

56 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

You’ll see that most of it is existing buildings.  The new buildings would be a result of demolishing a building on one block then rebuilding it two blocks over.

What building are you talking about?  The deteriorating city service buildings that would have been replaced with something more fitting for a central urban environment or the arena being built on the same site but using a quarter of the land?  Honestly, the parts I was most excited about was getting rid of those garbage city buildings and adding more functionality to the existing under-utilized parking decks with the mixed-use wrapping, plus restoring Blue's.

35 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

Just last week plans to move forward on a new bio-tech building were announced.  The lot on which it is being built is within the NH planned area.

That building should have happened years ago but HDL/THDL probably have delayed the need.  The lot is not part of NH area and is tax exempt, as is the rest of the BioTech Park.
 

28 minutes ago, Brent114 said:

For the record, I don’t really care about the schools.  I’m fine with a city of young professionals and empty nesters, quite frankly.

Fully agree here!

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With all due respect, Brent - how long have you lived in Richmond? Are you a Richmond native? Were you around when there WAS a real "we're the next big thing" attitude and feel that got derailed by racial politics and then all but buried by the draconian preservationists, the "fiscal conservatives" and the "but the schools" NIMBYs?

A number of points:

Boo-hoo over the throwing away of a hub: Piedmont was absorbed by US Air which merged with American. Ummmm.... that hub is still at Charlotte-Douglas -- it didn't go anywhere just because Piedmont ceased to exist in the '80s. (The brand has since been resurrected under the American umbrella and flies again as Piedmont). So... Piedmont no longer existing as an independent entity after 1989 would have meant bye-bye hub at RIC?

Really??

It matters not about what airline would have been here -- it's about the fact that area leaders said "no thank you" to a golden opportunity for RIC to become a MAJOR East-Coast hub, the economic ripple effect for the city and the suburbs would have been fantastic, particularly taken over a period of 40 years.

So... you're perfectly OK with RIC doing business at a 4.5 M passenger-per-year clip, yeah? When it COULD be serving 45M or more passengers per year? You're OK with having to drive to DC or fly to NY, Charlotte or Atlanta to get to some destinations, particularly if you want to fly overseas or even just to Canada? Wouldn't you rather have those options flying out of RIC?

You are correct on the point about state banking regulations -- North Carolina did not have certain restrictions in place that conservative Virginia had -- therefore banks flocked to the Tar Heel state because it was more profitable to do business there than in Virginia. That's not a Richmond-specific issue but it was impactful and did hurt growth here.

Biotech Park: Nice. Always glad when more people will be working downtown. But a campus of six-story buildings is exactly that... a campus of six-story buildings. Nothing to write home about. Still, glad to have something there instead of another desolate parking lot absorbing the summer sun.

Fake neighborhood: please define "fake" ... What would have to be done there to convert several blocks of parking lots into a "real" neighborhood?

NH area cut off and nowhere to grow:  Oh really? Ever hear of Lakeshore East? It's a new ("perhaps fake???") neighborhood in downtown Chicago. I used to work in an office complex adjacent to what is now this new neighborhood. At the time it was nothing but mainly desolate parking lots and a handful of small decayed buildings ready for the rubble pile. I watched from my office the first group of skyscrapers go up in that neighborhood in 2002-2003. Today that area is packed with amazing, gleaming towers of every description. Mainly residential and a few hotels. And at street level, an entirely new neighborhood of bars, clubs, shops, restaurants has been created out of what was once a good place to get mugged. 

What's interesting about Lakeshore East - is that just like the Navy Hill section -- it's cut off. It's hemmed in by Wacker Drive and the Chicago River on the north and Lakeshore Drive on the east. Nowhere to grow. Oh wait... yeah, there is one place it could -- and did -- grow. VERTICALLY! IT WENT UP!! Many of the buildings are 60-stories or taller. One recently completed is 82-stories and another that just topped out is 101-stories.

When I saw NH and the idea of packing some taller buildings into the area, I immediately saw the comparison. So to your point that a coordinated development of the NH neighborhood has "nowhere to grow" - again, I call BS. It can -- and should -- grow vertically. Taller is better. Much much better.

A hole in the CBD: a couple of points - I recall when the CBD was defined as a much larger area than it is now. What is now called the CBD is a somewhat expanded version of what used to be known as the financial district. As for leaving a hole in the building in which CoStar is located currently: major downtown firms change location all the time. Law firms jump around from the James Center to the Riverfront Plaza to the Bank of American Building and so on and so on. It's been a common practice downtown for decades. Know what happens? Someone comes to fill the vacuum. This is where aggressive marketing and good coordination between the city and the business community can work to drive business to Richmond, particularly downtown.

Can you point to the net gain of having block after block after block of desolate parking lots (not just in NH but Monroe Ward and elsewhere downtown), many of which have existed for 50 years?

As for a hole and desolation around Kanawaha Plaza -- imploding the old Dominion Building with NO FIRM PLANS to replace it with ANYTHING other than either another parking lot or green space doesn't exactly improve the view or inspire confidence in that area. And if the economy tanks the way some are saying it might given the impact of COVID-19 -- I'll be interested to see how many projects get scrapped if they don't get underway sooner rather than later (now would be the opportune time to break ground and get things rolling!!)

Manchester is finally coming to life -- but I fear I could live to be 100 and Monroe Ward would still be a lovely collection of parking lots.

And as for Richmond beefing up: let's use the analogy: Richmond and Charlotte 50 years ago were both like guys with Tom Brady's physique. Richmond beefed up to the size of Saquon Barkley, Derrick Henry, or Travis Kelce. Meanwhile, Charlotte has beefed up to the size of J.J. Watt.

See the difference?

No... I'm not a NH fan boy by any stretch. But I will proudly confess to being a fan boy of Richmond -- I have been my entire life, from when I was a kid. I take great pride and pleasure seeing the recent resurrection the city is enjoying and pray it continues. But I've also been around long enough to remember what COULD HAVE been. My heart has been broken too many times hoping for big things for Richmond -- and every bloody time I look at a Charlotte or Nashville or Memphis (mainly Charlotte though for obvious reasons) I cannot help but cringe from the thought of that could have -- and SHOULD have -- been us.

Edited by I miss RVA
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icetera -- well said all the way around. And agreed - it's difficult to place Foundry Park in the CBD -- I've always through of that area more as "riverfront".

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Also, I got this comment from the RichmondBizsense comment section for the latest article concerning the Navy Hill controversy. It resonated with me in a way. 

 

20200311_080701.jpg

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The guy who leads the “Bring Hockey Back to Richmond” Facebook page posted this today. Anyone know anything?

“Noticed a lot of construction trucks parked around the Coliseum yesterday. 
I wonder if the city has decided to take Douglas Development up on their offer. Probably not but still there was enough vehicles around there to make me notice...”

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2 hours ago, eandslee said:

The guy who leads the “Bring Hockey Back to Richmond” Facebook page posted this today. Anyone know anything?

“Noticed a lot of construction trucks parked around the Coliseum yesterday. 
I wonder if the city has decided to take Douglas Development up on their offer. Probably not but still there was enough vehicles around there to make me notice...”

Interestingly enough, the original group behind the Navy Hill proposal is proposing a new 17-ish story tower with an adjacent 9 story building. 

"The new development, totaling 545,000 square feet, would house office and support space for VCU Health, new child development space and spec Class A office space, as well as new facilities for local nonprofits The Doorways and Ronald McDonald House Charities, according to the proposal. It also would include 20,000 square feet of ground-level retail and 1,900 parking spaces."

https://richmondbizsense.com/2020/05/06/breaking-news-navy-hill-developers-propose-new-downtown-office-tower/

55514240-18ED-4934-8723-BBB6CB3CBA24.jpeg

Edited by rjp212
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