New Richmond Arena

[DalWill]

4 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

Jesus Christ, do I have to spell it out for you???

V-E-R-T-I-C-A-L

Seriously, 200-300 people?? Yet again, the classic example of how/why Richmond can't think its way out of a paper bag when it comes to forward thinking. This has been firmly on display for the last 50-plus years.

Downtown needs 20,000, 30,000  or more living right in the core. That's not an out-of-the-backside number -- scholars of urban planning (among them, professors I had at VCU -- I was a semester's worth of credits shy of a 2nd B.A. (Urban Planning) when I graduated in 1985) ... long were in agreement more than 35 years ago that downtown needed at least 20K residents to be viable.  Put high-rise residential development along Broad, in "Navy Hill" - in Monroe Ward, City Center. Mix it all in. What you call a "residential wasteland" is only such simply because THERE IS NOTHING THERE .... YET! Downtown can -- and should -- be a tapestry, weaving and mixing in various components. Jackson Ward is long established -- certain elements of the CBD are established. The government center is established. But what of City Center? Broad? Monroe Ward? and yes "Navy Hill" -- not as a project or development but as -- you guessed it, a neighborhood? WHERE is it etched in stone by Divine inscription that a "neighborhood" MUST look something like the Fan or the Museum District or Jackson Ward or Church Hill? That's just more typical old-school Richmond poppycock!

THINK ... OUT... SIDE ... THE ... BOX...

Make it like (a mini) Manhattan - and yes, I would live there. In a New York minute!

And please spare us the "hyperbole" BS. I'd like to hope EVERYONE is glad that someone is actually getting off their backside to put shovel to dirt and to try to make this city into something.

Exactly!! Shouldn't private developers be mandated at gunpoint to pony up "X" amount of cash for the schools before the Planning Commission will even LOOK at a proposed development?  

Just when I thought the coronavirus pandemic sealed this conversation, lo and behold; NAVY HILL RISES!

@I miss RVA you're wasting your time trying to prove your point. That font already made up it's mind stating that this section of downtown isn't considered "livable" or worth the redevlopment.  If that was the case, neither is Scotts Addition or Manchaster.  I knew from then on that discussion wasn't necessary.

Edited May 9, 2020 by DalWill

[I miss RVA]

1 hour ago, DalWill said:

Just when I thought the coronavirus pandemic sealed this conversation, lo and behold; NAVY HILL RISES!

@I miss RVA you're wasting your time trying to prove your point. That font already made up it's mind stating that this section of downtown isn't considered "livable" or worth the redevlopment.  If that was the case, neither is Scotts Addition or Manchaster.  I knew from then on that discussion wasn't necessary.

Dal, you actually made me literally LOL!! Well said!!

Yeah, I think you're right. It's like beating a dead horse, unfortunately. I'll admit I just can't help it. It's not about being "right" or "standing correct" on a point -- its about the desire to see Richmond actually live up to her potential. Honestly, I feel I can't give up the fight -- because it's about increasingly feeling like I'll never live to see the day the Richmond FINALLY shakes the small-town mindset off and goes after -- and becomes -- the big city she can be. I get so riled up about it because I was there 50-plus years ago when all the talk about Richmond being the "next Atlanta" was floating around and it was SOOOO exciting to think of Richmond making it to the big time as a city. I've seen this same abominable movie over and over and over. I keep thinking - new generation, new mindset. And am sorely disappointed and let down every time. This mindset has been nothing short of an albatross around Richmond's neck, a millstone that has held her down. It's what turned away Piedmont and RIC as a major hub. It's part of what kept any number of potentially fantastic projects from ever getting past the "announced in the news" phase. Downtown could have been much much different with greater push toward progressive thinking, aggressive marketing and a loosening of shackles from those who pooh poohed density and vertical development.

As you said, the amazing redirect that has happened in Scott's Addition and Manchester is nothing short of phenomenal. It's part of what has given me hope that Richmond is really taking off -- or about to. But as long as this constrictive -- and not constructive -- mindset holds sway over our fair city, she'll stay right where she has been mired for the past 50 years. Growth in fits and starts. We celebrate the small victories -- and get bypassed for the big ones that go elsewhere, to cities that weren't afraid of -- but embraced -- change.

[I miss RVA]

Why isn't this Richmond? My whole life, THIS is what I have wanted for Richmond.

https://wdanielanderson.wordpress.com/2017/03/31/atlanta-now-big-city/

[eandslee]

20 hours ago, I miss RVA said:

Why isn't this Richmond? My whole life, THIS is what I have wanted for Richmond.

https://wdanielanderson.wordpress.com/2017/03/31/atlanta-now-big-city/

It could have been Richmond had a few events on our past been a little bit different.  Back in the early 1900s, Richmond was poised to be the south’s big city (in fact it was back then), but there were a few pivotal events that kept it from being so. We were on the brink, but it slipped out of our hands....somehow.  

[I miss RVA]

12 minutes ago, eandslee said:

It could have been Richmond had a few events on our past been a little bit different.  Back in the early 1900s, Richmond was poised to be the south’s big city (in fact it was back then), but there were a few pivotal events that kept it from being so. We were on the brink, but it slipped out of our hands....somehow.  

So very true, eadslee -- and it continued slipping from our hands over the decades to the point that, now, I believe it is long-ago too late. Which absolutely STINKS, IMNSHO. What a complete, unfettered shame. When I think of what Richmond COULD have been (and had SOOOO many opportunities to get herself there) compared with where she is now -- I feel sick. Totally heartbroken.

Edited May 10, 2020 by I miss RVA

[wrldcoupe4]

That’s all true, but I quite enjoy living in Richmond today. Could be better, could be A LOT worse. Most days it’s pretty great. I have no desire to live in Atlanta ever.  

[I miss RVA]

13 hours ago, wrldcoupe4 said:

That’s all true, but I quite enjoy living in Richmond today. Could be better, could be A LOT worse. Most days it’s pretty great. I have no desire to live in Atlanta ever.  

A fair point and I'm glad you enjoy it there. I also have no desire to live it Atlanta but for entirely different reasons, none of which has to do with not liking how "big" a city Atlanta is. Two of those reasons are: 1.) HORRIBLE weather - heat and humidity worse than Richmond, and 6-plus months of summer ain't my cup of tea. 2.) Envy. I could not stomach living in either Atlanta or Charlotte knowing Richmond has never gone anywhere but could have.

As for the "quality of life" argument or "Atlanta's too big" - at least for me ... puuuuuuhleease... I've lived in Chicago for two decades. No comparison between the two (CHI and ATL) from a size perspective. At all. And I love it here. The only urban upgrade for me would be either New York or London, and that would take winning more than a few lotteries (well, and for COVID to go bye-bye, which ain't happening anytime soon). The flipside would be to find a secluded, scenic, quiet parcel in the mountains of northwestern Wyoming - I would gladly go there as well because I love the Rockies and at high enough elevation,  8-plus months of winter. (yes, there are locations in the Tetons region where it snows occasionally in June, July and August. Sign me up!

[eandslee]

So Navy Hill is dead and GreenCity is alive and well in Henrico. Without the need for another regional arena, the old Richmond Coliseum is collecting dust...and apparently, the homeless.  With the shift from an arena being located downtown to the burbs, what will become of the Coliseum and the Navy Hill area around it?  Here is a chance to express your ideas on what should happen with the Coliseum and the blocks making up Navy Hill. Let’s us know your thoughts here. 
 

(Reference this RBS article: https://richmondbizsense.com/2020/12/08/with-an-arena-planned-in-henrico-whats-next-for-the-coliseum/)

I’ll go first:

My initial thought is that the convention center is no longer looking to gain new and expanded events due to not having an arena next to it to draw in the large conventions...so I think whatever is built in place of the Coliseum should be complimentary to the convention center...perhaps even an extension to it in an effort to offer more variable space for larger and different convention events. You’ve got to be able to draw people downtown somehow. Thought this might be a viable solution.  Maybe even a flex space for live concerts/outdoor park, etc.  I’m interested in hearing your thoughts though. 
 

Edit:  after giving it some more thought, I still like the idea of a building to sit in the Coliseum site with convention space on the first floor (2-3 stories high to cover the entire footprint of the site), then a tower above the convention space (a smaller footprint) to include a hotel, say the next 10-15 stories, office space for a few floors, then apartments and condos above all of that (say another 10-15 stories).  This would create an iconic tower to replace the Coliseum; there would be added convention space, taxes would be able to be generated by the hotel, office,  and residential...and finally, the city gets a very visible iconic tower (that can be seen from every direction) in the process!  Seems to satisfy all the required needs to me!

Edited December 8, 2020 by eandslee

[marinog711]

Do you all think there is any way that Green City arena gets scrapped and it goes back to original plan of downtown?  Im not really liking this arena in the suburbs thing.  Especially since we do not have good mass transit.   It made so much sense to have it near convention center.  Maybe tear down arena and build a bigger better convention center?  Scrap ballpark at the diamond and build it at arena space?

 

[eandslee]

1 hour ago, marinog711 said:

Do you all think there is any way that Green City arena gets scrapped and it goes back to original plan of downtown?  Im not really liking this arena in the suburbs thing.  Especially since we do not have good mass transit.   It made so much sense to have it near convention center.  Maybe tear down arena and build a bigger better convention center?  Scrap ballpark at the diamond and build it at arena space?

 

Honestly, I can tell you that this ship has sailed for Richmond City. The developers don’t want to even work with the city anymore on an arena. They are still working to get the 20-story tower built for VCU and Ronald McDonald House etc, on the block next to the VCU outpatient tower, but that’s where they are drawing the line. 

[DowntownCoruscant]

The planned location of the Henrico arena leaves me cold. Much rather that whole project go in the “Scott’s Addition 2” area that was hyped a year or two ago, although I’m not sure the street grid would support that.

As for what to do with the Coliseum site, that’s a tough one. It’s a dead space, and I don’t think VCU towers would help that.

[Wahoo 07]

Demolish the coliseum.  Restore the street grid.  Develop the area to support high density residential and commercial uses so as to create a twenty-four hour neighborhood in an otherwise moribund section of downtown.

[DalWill]

2 hours ago, Wahoo 07 said:

Demolish the coliseum.  Restore the street grid.  Develop the area to support high density residential and commercial uses so as to create a twenty-four hour neighborhood in an otherwise moribund section of downtown.

@eandslee  Lets see. How about...

-An Aquarium/Atrium with Ferris Wheel attachment (or other various amusement attractions) inside- An Aquatic Atrium.  With Maymount park having their aquatic center  and Virginia Beach has their own aquarium, we can find a way to differentiate Richmond's aquatic attractions...

or 

 A Mall of America type of development but on a smaller scale but with the same attentions. Instead of having a "Nickelodeon Universe", we can work with  Warner Brothers and bring that similar kind of energy to the Commonwealth...

or

Partner with Regal Cinemas/AMC and have a bottom floor movie theater to create an Alantic Station-style development...

as an anchor with high density mixed-use residental surrounding it? 

The body of the plan is fine. We just need these as replacements.

Also, I believe the halls of  Convention Center need an interior renovation to include Navy Hill (hell Jackson Ward) history, or dedicated area as a perminate place for visitation. I'm taking murals, paintings, photographic works, emblems, educational pieces all throughout the visitation center.  Also, workspaces  and cafes facing 6th Street.

BAM- TWO TOURIST ATTRACTIONS.

Implement these ideas with the restoration of the street grid, we are good to go. 

*Sidenote: how past time elected officals approved the eradication of a neighborhood to put a low-value event space (WITH NO LIVING SPACE AROUND IT) with a desolate business park in it is disgraceful and unacceptable*.

[vaceltic]

 

4 hours ago, Wahoo 07 said:

Demolish the coliseum.  Restore the street grid.  Develop the area to support high density residential and commercial uses so as to create a twenty-four hour neighborhood in an otherwise moribund section of downtown.

Agreed. Nothing flashy needs to go there. The last coliseum is proof that flashy projects don't result in the intended outcomes. 

Restore the neighborhood that was lost there when they tore everything down to build the original coliseum. More residences means more foot traffic needed to restore the Broad Street retail corridor to its former glory. 100% tax revenues back to the general fund. This isn't that difficult.

[eandslee]

4 hours ago, vaceltic said:

 

Agreed. Nothing flashy needs to go there. The last coliseum is proof that flashy projects don't result in the intended outcomes. 

There was nothing flashy about the dark and drab Coliseum.  Plus, it was built at a different time in Richmond's history when everyone was beginning to move to the suburbs.  Not a good example of what would happen in today's Richmond.

[Brent114]

By the standards of the day, the Coliseum was indeed flashy and state of the art.
In the time that it was in use the downtown workforce nearly doubled as did  the metro population.    When it was built, downtown was the premier shopping destination in the state. 
Not so much as a hot dog stand opened near it. 

Tear it down, sell the land to the highest bidder and use the money from the sale to pay off the debt.  Then move on and never speak of it again. 

[DowntownCoruscant]

In that era, flashiness wasn’t a concern. A stadium/arena was supposed to be functional. It was the time of multi-purpose, cookie-cutter stadiums and no-frills, circular arenas. The Coliseum was of its time.

[Brent114]

The coliseum wasn’t cookie cutter.  It had every bit of the “wow” factor as the flashiest arena recently built.  The architect was very fancy at the time (Citibank in Manhattan).   There were mini coliseum kiosks installed around the city too (one remains in Monroe Park). 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Brent114

[vaceltic]

12 hours ago, Brent114 said:

The coliseum wasn’t cookie cutter.  It had every bit of the “wow” factor as the flashiest arena recently built.  The architect was very fancy at the time (Citibank in Manhattan).   There were mini coliseum kiosks installed around the city too (one remains in Monroe Park). 

Is that what those gazebos were used for in Monroe and Chimborazo? Trying to picture these kiosks...

[Brent114]

The one in Monroe park used to be at the corner of Franklin and Laurel way back when I was in college. It was moved to the corner of Main and  Belvedere  after the renovation.  It’s just a surface on which to staple show bills and the roof part of it is a mini coliseum.   I’m told by those older than me that there were many of them around town in the 70’s and 80’s. 

[VAtoNC]

I think my adopted city of Raleigh saw what happened to Navy Hill and the arena moving to Henrico. They decided yesterday to move forward with the Downtown South project and arena by local developer John Kane. He has been on a roll her for the last decade and gets things moving when other don't. I was really hoping Richmond would approve a downtown arena.

Edited December 17, 2020 by VAtoNC

[carolina1792]

38 minutes ago, VAtoNC said:

I think my adopted city of Raleigh saw what happened to Navy Hill and the arena moving to Henrico. They decided yesterday to move forward with the Downtown South project and arena by local developer John Kane. He has been on a roll her for the last decade and gets things moving when other don't. I was really hoping Richmond would approve a downtown arena.

 

South of Downtown Raleigh is going to really boom in the coming decade or two. Downtown South is just one of the major projects planned.  Park City South will add 4 to 6 20-story towers just south of downtown and Salisbury Square will push the downtown skyline south as well with the plan to build two 20 story residential towers along with a hotel. There's also rumors that the city will give an honest attempt to study the possibility of replacing the PNC Arena with a downtown 'adjacent' arena somewhere south or west of downtown Raleigh proper in the 2030's. There's also Centennial Campus that is rezoning with a chunk of the property requesting 40-story rezoning and there's currently some group of investors purchasing a lot of property between the future Downtown South, Dix Park, and the forementioned Park City South.  Best part of all this is that it is in Raleigh proper so all that investment is going to the city and not an adjacent community or the county like the Green City project.  

[Brent114]

The Raleigh version looks  pretty terrible too (suburban lifestyle center).  I’m glad downtown Richmond dodged this bullet. 
 

[carolina1792]

1 hour ago, Brent114 said:

The Raleigh version looks  pretty terrible too (suburban lifestyle center).  I’m glad downtown Richmond dodged this bullet. 
 

It's a gridded, walkable design with bus rapid transit built in as well as plans for protected bike lanes and greenspace taking up 40% of the property with a connection to the largest park in the city (Dix Park + NC States biggest farmer's market). And only 1 mile from the current downtown, decades from now downtown south could be the uptown to Raleigh downtown as the area between the districts get built up as well. Hardly a suburban lifestyle center as you believe--though Raleigh metro will have plenty of those like the Fenton, North Hills, and the New Midtown Exchange.

[Brent114]

Looks like a mini Reston Town Center (30 years later and even it hasn’t grown into something urban) or Virginia Beach Town Center.  Nice enough suburban places but not urban in spite of then street grids and mass transit (both of those things are pretty common in suburbia, just not south of Washington).  

 

There’s plenty of land in downtown Raleigh.   Build  a downtown before your build a midtown.  
 

Raleigh keeps adding amenities around the downtown area but the core continues to languish. The synergy just isn’t happening and building a self contained new urbanism village a mile from the core won’t help.   This plan does look better than Navy Hill insofar as it is located in an area with room to grown. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Brent114