The Ellis – 33 Floor Apartment Tower – Lennar does what Levine couldn't.

[RANYC]

A couple floors of steel framing are now up at the new suites hotel adjacent to the Ellis.

As for the Parking Lot in between the Ellis and 7th Street Market, is there any way this can be divided up into multiple plats so that it's not just one mega-building?  Can such a massive block be a mix of wide-bodied and narrow, tall and short buildings? 

Or in general, can we see small plats for construction immediately adjacent to the sidewalk, with the high-rise portion of a project pushed further into the interior of the block?  Anyone with any experience seeing urban buildings designed in this way?  Not sure if I'm expressing clearly.

[QCxpat]

Today 11:45 a.m.

Edited December 12, 2021 by QCxpat

[carolinaboy]

^^^^^ Something satisfying about seeing steel go up.

[RANYC]

1 hour ago, carolinaboy said:

^^^^^ Something satisfying about seeing steel go up.

Something very satisfying about seeing a small bit of the Ellis covered up from ground level at that vantage point.

Now if we could only get the parking lot in between the Ellis and 7th Street Market broken up into smaller-footprint development plats and filled in with something of higher quality design (IMO), then we'll be cookin'.  Does anyone know if anything may happen soon with that lot, and what's the status of the Levine Museum of the New South property sale?

Edited December 13, 2021 by RANYC

[TheRealClayton]

5 hours ago, RANYC said:

Something very satisfying about seeing a small bit of the Ellis covered up from ground level at that vantage point.

Now if we could only get the parking lot in between the Ellis and 7th Street Market broken up into smaller-footprint development plats and filled in with something of higher quality design (IMO), then we'll be cookin'.  Does anyone know if anything may happen soon with that lot, and what's the status of the Levine Museum of the New South property sale?

You should swing by that lot today, they moved Victoria Yards there and they are scaling it out with more fun stuff. I think its pretty damn cool.

[RANYC]

32 minutes ago, TheRealClayton said:

You should swing by that lot today, they moved Victoria Yards there and they are scaling it out with more fun stuff. I think its pretty damn cool.

I will.  Huge fan of surface lot activations!

[RANYC]

Checked out Ellis availability.  312 units appear to be available, suggesting a 43% occupancy since opening for occupancy in July.  Is that healthy?

[Blue_Devil]

1 hour ago, RANYC said:

Checked out Ellis availability.  312 units appear to be available, suggesting a 43% occupancy since opening for occupancy in July.  Is that healthy?

Its not bad. I think the new year will bring an uptick in occupancy too. That means the leasing team is lease 2 apartments per business day. 

[Urban Cowboy]

The rent prices are reflective of the interior and amenities, but not the neighborhood or styrofoam exterior. Couldn’t pay me to live across the street from that Hookah Lounge. There have been 4 shootings there in the last 2 months. One stray bullet and that’s it.
 

Plus College is a drag strip on the weekends as people leave clubs and bars - too much ***inconsiderate*** road noise. I sound like an old man but my wife and I literally sold our townhome and left an urban neighborhood because we were tired of inconsiderate drivers who floored their chargers, challengers, and mustangs at all hours. Loud mufflers are inconsiderate and annoying to everyone except the driver.
 

People will say “that’s living in a city.” I agree and they’re right. But people have choices. Lower occupancy at the Ellis is probably more reflective of the county’s homeless services next door and a “lounge” that’s open until 4:00AM everyday and attracting gun violence. These are real issues and the homeless population especially will continue to hinder change along North Tryon and neighboring blocks. I feel so bad for North Tryon because it can’t catch a break between inept land holders, stalled Levineland, the county, hall House plans, Publix, and physical access issues brought to you by the CSX tracks and 277.

[Norm2]

The people driving around with very loud cars seems to be a city wide problem. I list near the SC boarder and I hear it a lot out here too.

[RANYC]

1 hour ago, Urban Cowboy said:

The rent prices are reflective of the interior and amenities, but not the neighborhood or styrofoam exterior. Couldn’t pay me to live across the street from that Hookah Lounge. There have been 4 shootings there in the last 2 months. One stray bullet and that’s it.
 

Plus College is a drag strip on the weekends as people leave clubs and bars - too much ***inconsiderate*** road noise. I sound like an old man but my wife and I literally sold our townhome and left an urban neighborhood because we were tired of inconsiderate drivers who floored their chargers, challengers, and mustangs at all hours. Loud mufflers are inconsiderate and annoying to everyone except the driver.
 

People will say “that’s living in a city.” I agree and they’re right. But people have choices. Lower occupancy at the Ellis is probably more reflective of the county’s homeless services next door and a “lounge” that’s open until 4:00AM everyday and attracting gun violence. These are real issues and the homeless population especially will continue to hinder change along North Tryon and neighboring blocks. I feel so bad for North Tryon because it can’t catch a break between inept land holders, stalled Levineland, the county, hall House plans, Publix, and physical access issues brought to you by the CSX tracks and 277.

Yes, the week before Christmas, I chatted with a junior-level professional at my firm who lived with his wife in Uptown just after moving to Charlotte from New Jersey in 2018, but over the summer of this year, relocated to Huntersville.  He cited their perception of a decline in the level of safety and security in Uptown.  He wasn't sure if the loss of workday professionals created a vacuum that got filled by various unsavory characters and reprobates on the streets, or if there's been a more fundamental decline in Uptown, but whatever the case, he and his wife had no desire to stick around.  He said it just wasn't an inviting and livable place any longer, in their opinion.  I was depressed by our conversation.  They're two transplants from the northeast, both spent months here living and working in uptown and foregoing a car because they'd rather walk or bike, and both are educated, working professionals.  If our downtown can't be hospitable to them, I very much fear for its future.  

Maybe they're an isolated case.

Edited December 27, 2021 by RANYC

[carolina1792]

On 6/9/2021 at 10:52 PM, BullDurhamer said:

i have it on good authority that this is by far the ugliest building in the city.  wtf happened here?

The building is still rendering and missing the texture file. 

Edited December 27, 2021 by carolina1792

[Temeteron]

13 minutes ago, RANYC said:

Yes, the week before Christmas, I chatted with a junior-level professional at my firm who lived with his wife in Uptown just after moving to Charlotte from New Jersey in 2018, but over the summer of this year, relocated to Huntersville.  He cited their perception of a decline in the level of safety and security in Uptown.  He wasn't sure if the loss of workday professionals created a vacuum that got filled by various unsavory characters on the streets and reprobates, or if there's been a more fundamental decline in Uptown, but whatever the case, he and his wife had no desire to stick around.  He said it just wasn't an inviting and livable place any longer, in their opinion.  I was depressed by our conversation.  They're two transplants from the northeast, both spent months here living and working in uptown and foregoing a car because they'd rather walk or bike, and both are educated, working professionals.  If our downtown can't be hospitable to them, I very much fear for its future.  

Maybe they're an isolated case.

I have a friend who moved here  from the Netherlands in 2015.  She loves Charlotte like crazy and has had multiple offers to leave and go to higher paying positions in NY, London etc but she loves it here.  She’s been living in uptown ever since she came here however she has stated that she doesn’t want to be in uptown any longer.  She has noticed the crime, closings and overall negative changes of uptown and wants to move to a different part of Charlotte.  The office workers need to come back!

Edited December 27, 2021 by Temeteron

[deleted account]

22 minutes ago, Temeteron said:

The office workers need to come back

They really do but, even when they do, it will likely never be the same here or anywhere else. Aside from security guards, janitors and food service, I'm literally the only person in my building who works there 5 days a week (100% voluntarily). The genie is out of the bottle and people really want to work from home. Charlotte won't be the only city suffering as a result, it will be the norm. It completely changes the momentum of people moving Uptown. For the foreseeable future, I'd expect more to move out. The Ellis and others would never be built today and if not for the impressive population growth here I think they'd be in real trouble. 

[Temeteron]

33 minutes ago, JBS said:

They really do but, even when they do, it will likely never be the same here or anywhere else. Aside from security guards, janitors and food service, I'm literally the only person in my building who works there 5 days a week (100% voluntarily). The genie is out of the bottle and people really want to work from home. Charlotte won't be the only city suffering as a result, it will be the norm. It completely changes the momentum of people moving Uptown. For the foreseeable future, I'd expect more to move out. The Ellis and others would never be built today and if not for the impressive population growth here I think they'd be in real trouble. 

Why not build more apartment buildings uptown though vs. south end? There is still demand either way no? 

[deleted account]

6 hours ago, Temeteron said:

Why not build more apartment buildings uptown though vs. south end? There is still demand either way no? 

Because people want to live in South End. You can't create demand simply by building and the land and construction costs in Uptown are too high to offer units at a discount long term. Until they get some of the aforementioned issues resolved (homeless, crime, lack of amenities, etc.), people won't live Uptown if they don't have to be there for work.  I sincerely hope I'm wrong. 

[RANYC]

18 minutes ago, JBS said:

Because people want to live in South End. You can't create demand simply by building and the land and construction costs in Uptown are too high to offer units at a discount long term. Until they get some of the aforementioned issues resolved (homeless, crime, lack of amenities, etc.), people won't live Uptown if they don't have to be there for work.  I sincerely hope I'm wrong. 

South end is in the shadow of uptown.  If crime really is an issue in uptown, it needs to get addressed right now somehow or it will be an issue in south end quite soon.  

[deleted account]

42 minutes ago, RANYC said:

South end is in the shadow of uptown.  If crime really is an issue in uptown, it needs to get addressed right now somehow or it will be an issue in south end quite soon.  

I should be clear, I work Uptown and run 4 days a week in and around Uptown. Crime and the homeless have never negatively impacted me in my 18 years here. But I hear about them from others when discussing Uptown. I feel safe whenever I'm here. 

That said, there is definitely an enforcement issue on crime and I think it's not just in Charlotte (in fact, it's far worse elsewhere). But, I've seen people run red lights with police officers at the intersection...no response. That type of policing emboldens criminals. I'm sure we all have our own opinions on why this happens but it probably belongs in the political digression thread...

[DMann]

JBS, I agree with you about feeling safe downtown.  I do hate the late night drag racing, though I have heard that it is as bad down near Tremont and Tryon.  Don't know what the answer to that is.

[kayman]

If there's more things to draw people to Uptown outside of offices then it'll be fine.  With growth comes different types and sometimes there are petty property crimes.

The hookah lounge is an enforcement issue.  The City of Charlotte and the Mecklenburg ABC Board should step up stipulations on this place when it comes to security and enforcement. The same things have in occurred in other places and young people, professionals, and thoses who want to go out and party at clubs still moved there for the nightlife regardless.

More places like the Ellis should be constructed throughout Uptown so that the younger and economically upwardly mobile population choose it like they choose  other parts of the urban core.  CCCP should be as focused on quality of life amenities, leisural destination placemaking, and residential growth as they are on major employment generators

Edited December 29, 2021 by kayman

[Urban Cowboy]

I had friends walking out of the Ellis the other day when gun fire erupted from the Hookah Lounge parking lot. They could have been killed if a stray bullet hit them. Remember when that visiting doctor was killed on College from a stray bullet? It unfortunately can happen anywhere (even pre-Covid as was the case with the doctor).

I feel safe uptown and have never felt unsafe either. But perception does matter. And these anecdotes do exist. And while South End is booming (rightfully so) I do think it’s created a vacuum north of Trade as momentum has swung south. Vacant buildings and lots don’t inspire energy and they attract blight. The reality is that our corporations are the ones that drove much of the development in uptown. And the scale and street interactions of the buildings are focused on WORK. Whereas south end’s buildings (historically) are smaller and have a better human scale/street interaction. They’re focused on LIVING and PLAYING. Where would you rather be?
 

Hopefully workers return soon because like it or not - most of uptown’s character and charm was leveled for beautiful skyscrapers (that we all love and appreciate!). But there’s few retail options uptown. Better dining elsewhere. And if there are no workers - what’s the draw? A few museums yes. I love what’s happening in South End but there needs to be more focus on a vibrant and safe-feeling city center. If that means reducing rent rates for street level retail or other incentives - bring it on. People need a reason to be uptown. 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Urban Cowboy

[RANYC]

6 minutes ago, Urban Cowboy said:

I had friends walking out of the Ellis the other day when gun fire erupted from the Hookah Lounge parking lot. They could have been killed if a stray bullet hit them. Remember when that visiting doctor was killed on College from a stray bullet? It unfortunately can happen anywhere (even pre-Covid as was the case with the doctor).

I feel safe uptown and have never felt unsafe either. But perception does matter. And these anecdotes do exist. And while South End is booming (rightfully so) I do think it’s created a vacuum north of Trade as momentum has swung south. Vacant buildings and lots don’t inspire energy and they attract blight. The reality is that our corporations are the ones that drove much of the development in uptown. And the scale and street interactions of the buildings are focused on WORK. Whereas south end’s buildings (historically) are smaller and have a better human scale/street interaction. They’re focused on LIVING and PLAYING. Where would you rather be?
 

Hopefully workers return soon because like it or not - most of uptown’s character and charm was leveled for beautiful skyscrapers (that we all love and appreciate!). But there’s few retail options uptown. Better dining elsewhere. And if there are no workers - what’s the draw? A few museums yes. I love what’s happening in South End but there needs to be more focus on a vibrant and safe-feeling city center. If that means reducing rent rates for street level retail or other incentives - bring it on. People need a reason to be uptown. 

In the same way Tepper appears to want an entertainment district adjacent to or near the stadium, presumably to grow and enhance the fan experience for anything taking place in a massive stadium venue, does Hornets ownership also feel the same drive for the area around Spectrum Center, or are there very different dynamics at play between the two sports or the two ownerships?

[kayman]

On 12/27/2021 at 11:13 AM, Urban Cowboy said:

I had friends walking out of the Ellis the other day when gun fire erupted from the Hookah Lounge parking lot. They could have been killed if a stray bullet hit them. Remember when that visiting doctor was killed on College from a stray bullet? It unfortunately can happen anywhere (even pre-Covid as was the case with the doctor).

I feel safe uptown and have never felt unsafe either. But perception does matter. And these anecdotes do exist. And while South End is booming (rightfully so) I do think it’s created a vacuum north of Trade as momentum has swung south. Vacant buildings and lots don’t inspire energy and they attract blight. The reality is that our corporations are the ones that drove much of the development in uptown. And the scale and street interactions of the buildings are focused on WORK. Whereas south end’s buildings (historically) are smaller and have a better human scale/street interaction. They’re focused on LIVING and PLAYING. Where would you rather be?
 

Hopefully workers return soon because like it or not - most of uptown’s character and charm was leveled for beautiful skyscrapers (that we all love and appreciate!). But there’s few retail options uptown. Better dining elsewhere. And if there are no workers - what’s the draw? A few museums yes. I love what’s happening in South End but there needs to be more focus on a vibrant and safe-feeling city center. If that means reducing rent rates for street level retail or other incentives - bring it on. People need a reason to be uptown. 

Millennials and GenZ are leaving traditional office jobs in droves for remote working.  Check LinkedIn and all of the articles and detail commentary from economists as that's proof of it occurring widespread.  That's the majority of Charlotte's population growth are Millennials and GenZ professionals and entrepreneurs.  They want more work/life balance so the office-centric Uptown ideal is dying or soon to be dead. The CCCP/Charlotte Central Ciry Partnership has to work hard to come up with non-employment centric development as the future of urban core skyscrapers will need to more a mixture of uses outside of office for Uptown to thrive. More residental, a variety of commercial, more entertainment oriented, and hotels 

The same issues are occurring with crime in Midtown Atlanta but the developments and people are still coming there. It is why I said it's an enforcement issue because if developers see a potential market with growing numbers of clients and consumers then they will continue to come. That's what I see with SouthEnd along with Uptown but only if the latter continues to diversify its mixed use development. Otherwise SouthEnd will outflank Uptown much like how Midtown Atlanta has with Downtown Atlanta as the go to place there. 

Edited December 29, 2021 by kayman

[deleted account]

1 hour ago, RANYC said:

Tepper appears to want an entertainment district adjacent to or near the stadium, presumably to grow and enhance the fan experience 

Maybe try winning??

1 hour ago, RANYC said:

does Hornets ownership also feel the same drive for the area around Spectrum Center,

They have the adjacent Epicentre (I kid!).

[kayman]

More development along with the concept of the Epicentre but with competent property management.