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orlandouprise

Orlando Museum of Art Downtown property?

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51 minutes ago, orlandouprise said:

Completely agree. It is one more step towards creating a DT core that  gives tourists something to do. Imagine checking into a DT  hotel and asking a concierge if  there is anything to do or see DT?

Now the hotel can say yes! There is Lake Eola where you can paddle across the lake, there is the History Center, there is the DPAC for a show, there is the Magic Ent Complex for some shopping/ent. options, There is MUSEUM OF ART, there is a new HOLOCAUST MUSEUM, underI-4 park/food trucks , Creative Village Park/UCF Campus/ a HUGE MARKET. /FOOD HALL at old OUC building (praying), etc, etc  

Now we are creating a reason to come DT or at least giving the tourist something to  enjoy while here. Throw in carts on DT streets that sell iconic Orlando turkey legs, a streetcar system, and an observation tower west of I-4 and you have got one hell of a DT for (world cup, pro bowl, business travelers) visitors

Nope, the Holocaust Museum can’t be way up there. It has to be downtown or no one will go there. Fringe will have to move back downtown, too, I guess, even though more people attend in Loch Haven. Everything has to be downtown! Ooooh, I sound like Petula Clark...

Do we need to move the Morse also? The Polasek? The Cornell? The Bach Festival? Surely they’ve been withering on the vine for the last half century tucked away in tiny little Winter Park.

IF IT’S NOT IN DOWNTOWN ORLANDO, IT’S DEAD TO US is the DDB’s new campaign.

Edited by spenser1058
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The Lake Nona move is one of the most ill-conceived ideas I've ever heard.

If it happens, it will be done based on a decision made with money as the only consideration involved.

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10 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

I respectfully disagree. The majority of new traffic would be from non-residents. Honestly, residents only go a couple times, if at all. Sure, there are a small group of die-hard arts fans, but the main draw would be from tourists, visitors from out of town, and peripheral activity from other events. I think that a DT location right next to I-4 and SunRail would be ideal, and especially since it is closer to other amenities like local DT Hotels, Amway Center, Orlando City Stadium, Citrus Bowl, DPAC, Creative Village with the constant turnover of students that will be occurring as well as family and friends that may come to visit them, and of course easier to get to from I-Drive/Theme Parks/Convention Center. 

How many people visiting from out of town do you all think even know the museum complex at Lock Haven Park even exists? 

THIS IS THE PROBLEM.  There is not a lot of revenue or even recognition of the current museum of art because the location is so low profile. Moving it DT would instantly improve that, IMO.  

Put it at the Bob Carr site with a stylish architecture building and apparent signage and wayfinding from other local amenities and you instantly increase the awareness and traffic a TON.  

So why can't visitors staying in DT hotels just jump on Sunrail, take the quick little five or ten minute ride up to Florida Hospi....err, excuse me, Adventist Health... and hop off there? Riding the local train then taking a pleasant stroll along a shady, tree-lined sidewalk over to OMA would serve to enhance that "big city" experience.

From what you say about lack of awareness and recognition of OMA, it sounds like what they need is a better and more effective advertising campaign. There should be light pole banners all over downtown extolling the virtues and pleasures associated with and encouraging a visit to, OMA.

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4 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

So why can't visitors staying in DT hotels just jump on Sunrail, take the quick little five or ten minute ride up to Florida Hospi....err, excuse me, Adventist Health... and hop off there? Riding the local train then taking a pleasant stroll along a shady, tree-lined sidewalk over to OMA would serve to enhance that "big city" experience.

From what you say about lack of awareness and recognition of OMA, it sounds like what they need is a better and more effective advertising campaign. There should be light pole banners all over downtown extolling the virtues and pleasures associated with and encouraging a visit to, OMA.

It’s the perfect assignment for a marketing whiz like... dcluley!

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Sorry, the Daly Museum is a destination that worth driving to....OMA is not. Build a fancy building downtown and start from scratch and do it right.

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Let’s build a high-rise hotel adjoining both Loch Haven and AdventHealth - it can serve patrons of both medical tourism and our fine arts offerings. The perfect opportunity.

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27 minutes ago, sunshine said:

Sorry, the Daly Museum is a destination that worth driving to....OMA is not. Build a fancy building downtown and start from scratch and do it right.

OK.

And you're in charge of raising the money to pay for it like they had to for DPAC.

Piece of cake!!!

Make it happen!!! :lol:

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2 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

OK.

And you're in charge of raising the money to pay for it like they had to for DPAC.

Piece of cake!!!

Make it happen!!! :lol:

Sunshine can sell MDOGASP hats - “Make Downtown Orlando Great As St Pete!”

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They could do that. Hop on SunRail and get to LHP. Nobody knows about it, however, and it does not get the same synergy from the amenities all around it. It's just an extra step and a side trip.  It would be a good one IMO, if I was a visitor, but I don't know if other visitors would make the effort. Now if you are already in town, say for the Pro-Bowl, or the Citrus Bowl (whatever the heck they are calling it) or another event downtown, you would be right there.  

The marketing only goes so far, and should be improved. However, they could benefit from being downtown near other draws to create a whole draw for downtown.  It's more like, somebody is already in DT area for something and the decision becomes, oh, look, there's the museum of art, want to stop in tomorrow after our game is done tonight, "why not?" rather than planning to go to another destination. Kind of like an add on/impulse thing as opposed to going to a store for a specific item. A lot of visitors might not be "shopping" for a trip to OMA, but if it's sitting right there while they are shopping for what they came for, they might just choose to check it out. 

As a stoopid marketing guy, that is like one of the first principles of marketing. 4 P's: Product, Price, Place, Promotion. The product is not a premium product, so we need to make the other things better and make it as easy as possible in order to create a perceived want and induce a purchase decision. Make it easy and a "why not?" choice, and more people will try it out. 


Also, to add, I don't think Lock Haven Park is a "bad" location. I just think DT would be "better" for the OMA mission. I think Lake Nona is a "bad" location. 

Edited by dcluley98

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Most of the folks that come to visit Orlando stay in the attractions area, so the logical thing to do is to move everything to International Drive. Rich Crotty was right: Downtown Orange County is the center of our community. 

I confess - I’ve been wrong all this time.  The City of Orlando and Orange County Commission should pass the following resolution:

RESOLVED: “All public facilities or those organizations seeking support from the governments of Orlando or Orange County shall henceforth be located along International Drive in order to make said facilities convenient to the overwhelming majority of visitors to our respective communities.”

Edited by spenser1058

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57 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

They could do that. Hop on SunRail and get to LHP. Nobody knows about it, however, and it does not get the same synergy from the amenities all around it. It's just an extra step and a side trip.  It would be a good one IMO, if I was a visitor, but I don't know if other visitors would make the effort. Now if you are already in town, say for the Pro-Bowl, or the Citrus Bowl (whatever the heck they are calling it) or another event downtown, you would be right there.  

The marketing only goes so far, and should be improved. However, they could benefit from being downtown near other draws to create a whole draw for downtown.  It's more like, somebody is already in DT area for something and the decision becomes, oh, look, there's the museum of art, want to stop in tomorrow after our game is done tonight, "why not?" rather than planning to go to another destination. Kind of like an add on/impulse thing as opposed to going to a store for a specific item. A lot of visitors might not be "shopping" for a trip to OMA, but if it's sitting right there while they are shopping for what they came for, they might just choose to check it out. 

As a stoopid marketing guy, that is like one of the first principles of marketing. 4 P's: Product, Price, Place, Promotion. The product is not a premium product, so we need to make the other things better and make it as easy as possible in order to create a perceived want and induce a purchase decision. Make it easy and a "why not?" choice, and more people will try it out. 

Also, to add, I don't think Lock Haven Park is a "bad" location. I just think DT would be "better" for the OMA mission. I think Lake Nona is a "bad" location. 

I kind of tend to think that people who come to town for sporting events by and large wouldn't be too interested in visiting an art museum no matter where it's located. At least not in numbers that would help put a dent in paying for the huge investment that would be required to purchase an expensive downtown parcel then build the kind of highrise that would be necessary to give them room to expand in the future.

As far as having to hop on Sunrail is concerned, I think that people expect to use such transportation when they visit a "big city". All a part of the experience.

Consider a visit to NYC.

Manhattan is roughly 13 miles long. From downtown to midtown is approximately 6 miles. If you're staying in midtown and you want to visit downtown, you have to use some kind of transportation. Subway, bus, Uber or cab.

So why would the idea of taking Sunrail the roughly 2½ miles LHP be such a deal breaker?

I think that when people travel, they expect to take side excursions and utilize things like commuter rail and whatnot. Like I said, all part of the fun.

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24 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

I kind of tend to think that people who come to town for sporting events by and large wouldn't be too interested in visiting an art museum no matter where it's located. At least not in numbers that would help put a dent in paying for the huge investment that would be required to purchase an expensive downtown parcel then build the kind of highrise that would be necessary to give them room to expand in the future.

As far as having to hop on Sunrail is concerned, I think that people expect to use such transportation when they visit a "big city". All a part of the experience.

Consider a visit to NYC.

Manhattan is roughly 13 miles long. From downtown to midtown is approximately 6 miles. If you're staying in midtown and you want to visit downtown, you have to use some kind of transportation. Subway, bus, Uber or cab.

So why would the idea of taking Sunrail the roughly 2½ miles LHP be such a deal breaker?

I think that when people travel, they expect to take side excursions and utilize things like commuter rail and whatnot. Like I said, all part of the fun.

Too bad Sunrail's hours are inadequate for tourists and leisure riders. 90 minute intervals midday is not good enough for anyone. The only thing Sunrail is good for in Ivanhoe is getting free shots at the Hammered Lamb when it passes. LYNX102 along Orange comes every 15 minutes and is much more convenient to use between downtown and LHP, or even a lime bike.  Similar grievance, West Side Story is playing up in Sanford in February, it sure would be nice if Sunrail had night service so me and my GF wouldn't have to drive and could drink .  It's  not fun if one person has to stay sober and the other gets toasted so we'll be teetotaling that night, c'est la vie. Maybe one day Sunrail will be taken serious as transportation option by our elected officials.

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1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

I kind of tend to think that people who come to town for sporting events by and large wouldn't be too interested in visiting an art museum no matter where it's located. At least not in numbers that would help put a dent in paying for the huge investment that would be required to purchase an expensive downtown parcel then build the kind of highrise that would be necessary to give them room to expand in the future.

In a weird twist, this silly pickup truck driving sports fanatic goes out of his way to visit museums all over the world.  I'll also gone all over the US and a few places abroad for sports events.

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1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

I kind of tend to think that people who come to town for sporting events by and large wouldn't be too interested in visiting an art museum no matter where it's located. At least not in numbers that would help put a dent in paying for the huge investment that would be required to purchase an expensive downtown parcel then build the kind of highrise that would be necessary to give them room to expand in the future.

Ummm. OK.  

#1 - Sports fans aren't un-cultured slobs. That's quite a bit of stereotyping there. What about the people that come into town for a show at DPAC, are they likely to go to a museum? What about creative people and college students and their families? 

#2 - Bob Carr Theater parcel is owned by City of Orlando and is planned to be used for another purpose and incorporated into Creative Village - a natural fit for Art

#3 - The parcel is approximately 5 acres, about double the size of the current footprint of OMA, and has adjacent parking structures all around. 

#4 - They have to build a new building and/or addition anyway, so your argument about price is doesn't make the most sense in the world. It all depends on the money they have to spend and the design. The price tags for adding onto existing OMA and maybe doing an adaptive re-use and addition could be similar. It is not something we know at this time. 

Edited by dcluley98
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In a quote from the article linked in the other thread reported in Bungalower:  https://bungalower.com/2019/01/16/orlando-museum-of-art-considering-move-to-lake-nona/

"News of a possible move for the museum is nothing new, as they announced in their “Forward to 100: Reimagining the Orlando Museum of Art in the 21st Century” strategic planning plans to move to a more ideal location in Orlando’s urban core, as they saw Loch Haven Park as too isolated from possible tourists due to lack of transit and overall visibility."

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1 hour ago, HankStrong said:

In a weird twist, this silly pickup truck driving sports fanatic goes out of his way to visit museums all over the world.  I'll also gone all over the US and a few places abroad for sports events.

Well I did say "by and large", meaning most but not all.

There are always exceptions to everything.

But seriously, most hard core sports fans who drive down here from other states with their team's flags attached to their RV's are not here to look at paintings after the game. They're gonna hit the downtown bars and restaurants, then the theme parks if anything, then go home.

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40 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

In a quote from the article linked in the other thread reported in Bungalower:  https://bungalower.com/2019/01/16/orlando-museum-of-art-considering-move-to-lake-nona/

"News of a possible move for the museum is nothing new, as they announced in their “Forward to 100: Reimagining the Orlando Museum of Art in the 21st Century” strategic planning plans to move to a more ideal location in Orlando’s urban core, as they saw Loch Haven Park as too isolated from possible tourists due to lack of transit and overall visibility."

But Lake Nona is right where the tourists are? Meanwhile, all the other arts organizations plus the ones in Winter Park have been doing OK for decades?

I think you called it correctly the first time. There is a hidden agenda here that has to do with money, power among the arts organizations or both.

In any event, I have had a Road To Damascus moment. If Orlando exists now solely for the benefit of visitors and to maximize the profits of our leading industry, tourism, we should halt any funding of arts facilities and encourage them to work with the parks (perhaps add art pieces to the small nation galleries at World Showcase).

While we’re at it, we should discontinue all Resort taxes and the 1/2cent local option sales tax and sell DPAC to pay down the bonds or anything else that doesn’t demonstrably increase hotel occupancy.

Daytona has followed that idea for decades and it’s worked tremendously for them.

Downtown Orange County is the wave of the future!

 

 

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53 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

Ummm. OK.  

#1 - Sports fans aren't un-cultured slobs. That's quite a bit of stereotyping there. What about the people that come into town for a show at DPAC, are they likely to go to a museum? What about creative people and college students and their families? 

#2 - Bob Carr Theater parcel is owned by City of Orlando and is planned to be used for another purpose and incorporated into Creative Village - a natural fit for Art

#3 - The parcel is approximately 5 acres, about double the size of the current footprint of OMA, and has adjacent parking structures all around. 

#4 - They have to build a new building and/or addition anyway, so your argument about price is doesn't make the most sense in the world. It all depends on the money they have to spend and the design. The price tags for adding onto existing OMA and maybe doing an adaptive re-use and addition could be similar. It is not something we know at this time. 

#1 - Never said they were. But most people who spend a small fortune to come down here to watch a football game aren't thinking about looking at paintings. Sorry, but that's just the way it is.  Certainly a small percentage will be looking to do something along those lines, but in terms of total numbers, it wouldn't be typical or enough to make a big difference in attendance. 

As for DPAC attendees, I'm sure the percentage would be higher amongst them than the Camping World football fan crowd, but I doubt we get a huge number of out of state visitors traveling here to see things at our PAC they can see at PAC's in their own home cities and states. 

In short, I just don't think that in terms of sheer numbers, those two attractions would generate a large number of art museum visitors. Some, yes. But a lot, I don't think so. 

That's why DTO needs to become an attraction unto itself. One in which people decide to visit our art museum as just one of many local cultural amenities they'd visit and as part of exploring the city center in terms of sightseeing.

#2 - If it were planned for OMA there would be no discussion, but apparently it isn't. And apparently OMA isn't interested in it either, so there must be some issue with it that makes it unacceptable. I would think the congestion, noise and ever growing crime rate might be factors. 

#3 & #4 - Makes perfect sense. There is a large, unused grass field directly to the south of and adjacent to the existing building. Given that they already have a decent amount of good, usable space in the existing building, they wouldn't have to build as big as they'd need to if they started over from the ground up. Factor in the cost of not having to move and transport all of their art pieces and other equipment to a new building and set everything up and it's even more economical.

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35 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

That's why DTO needs to become an attraction unto itself. One in which people decide to visit our art museum as just one of many local cultural amenities they'd visit and as part of exploring the city center in terms of sightseeing.

 

This is kind of what I am getting at in my previous posts. If everything is downtown it creates synergy effect of going to downtown for multiple potential attractions, not going to different places and then taking a train to another place, and then getting on a bus or getting an Uber to another place. . . 

I think we can have a reasonable debate about the merits of both DT and LHP, even if we disagree. I don't mind it just being a good add on at LHP, but I think DT would be much better. 

I think we all can agree that putting it in Lake Nona would be awful. 

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19 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

I think we all can agree that putting it in Lake Nona would be awful. 

I'll take a stand and disagree. Lake Nona is a pretty unique place, and this is one step closer to making it like another Winter Park, or St Pete as someone else said. I think thats a good thing for the community. I just hope the existing building is repurposed as another museum, as I feel we don't have enough quality museums in the area.

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19 minutes ago, WAJAS98 said:

Dyer has responded... kinda

 

Well now, there was a non-statement statement if ever I heard one. :huh:

15 minutes ago, aent said:

I'll take a stand and disagree. Lake Nona is a pretty unique place, and this is one step closer to making it like another Winter Park, or St Pete as someone else said. I think thats a good thing for the community. I just hope the existing building is repurposed as another museum, as I feel we don't have enough quality museums in the area.

It may well be those things, but it will always be way the heck out in the southeast quadrant suburbs of metro Orlando.

Might as well just put it in Bithlo.

Or Kissimmee.

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6 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

Well now, there was a non-statement statement if ever I heard one. :huh:

If I had to guess, I’d say that was written by a (low-level) staffer, and given hizzoner’s affinity for big project movers and shakers, I am completely unsurprised.

At least Tavistock is adding value to the community unlike, say, Carolina-Florida Partners.

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