505 CST - 545 feet - 45 Floors

[titanhog]

I'm actually excited about us getting several towers in the 350+ range over the next few years.  Our skyline will look very different by 2020.

[rookzie]

I'm actually excited about us getting several towers in the 350+ range over the next few years.  Our skyline will look very different by 2020.

 

a bit of thinkin' out of the boxx...

-==-

[Guest]

I honestly don't understand the height fetish. I am more focused on a concentrated and excellent density. If our core looked like Portland... Wow... it could afford us so much.

Lots of data exists that residential density in really high building zones isn't as vibrant. People like to live in the 10-15 story zones.

[samsonh]

Agreed nochester. For a board that seems very concerned about preserving one story brick buildings that haven't been used in years we want a lot of skyscrapers that really don't necessarily create a walkable city.

[BnaBreaker]

I honestly don't understand the height fetish. I am more focused on a concentrated and excellent density. If our core looked like Portland... Wow... it could afford us so much.

Lots of data exists that residential density in really high building zones isn't as vibrant. People like to live in the 10-15 story zones.

 

Ya know, in terms of the hobby aspect of all of this, I think for many of us, myself included, this whole interest in cities began as an interest in skyscrapers and skylines.  I remember as a twelve year old drawing skylines and creating them out of my Legos.  As time has passed though, I've come to appreciate and develop much more of an interest in the complexities of the urban environment.  But the interest in skyscrapers started all of this for me, and it's still there.  If I get wind of a skyscraper proposal in my hometown, hell yes the hobbyist in me still gets excited.  That being said though, I do realize that the skyline of a city is nothing more than the 'pretty face' a city presents to the world.  What really matters is the bit that actual people experience on a day to day basis.  Developing a sustainable, organic urban environment that is easily walkable, fosters creativity, and is inclusive of people from all points on the economic spectrum, is the ultimate goal, and those qualities are what makes most of the world's great cities places people marvel at. 

[fieldmarshaldj]

I have been pondering this for a few days. I wanted to collect my thoughts.  I came to a conclusion many years ago that Nashville's prospect of getting a building over 600 feet WITHOUT SPIRES is something that would probably never happen. I cannot fully explain why cities like Oklahoma City, Mobile, Omaha, Louisville, Tulsa and a few others have an actual building taller than Nashville. The ATT Tower without spires is 527 feet, and the highest occupied floor is around the 430 foot mark.

 

With that being said there are many reasons that those aforementioned cities have NOT BEAT Nashville as FMJ contends. And, while I respect my friend Davy the following reasons are why he is wrong. Those cities do not come close to beating Nashville.

 

1) We have a national brand and have had one for decades. 2 Million visitors are year proves that.

 

2) The Nashville Cats were not the Omaha Cats, or the Louisville Cats. Bob Dylan recorded with the Nashville Cats.

 

3) ABC runs a show every week called Nashville. It's not called Louisville.

 

4) It's the  NFL Tennessee Titans, not the Mobile or Tulsa Titans.

 

5) It's the NHL Nashville Predators, not the Oklahoma City Predators.

 

6) Elvis came to Nashville, not Louisville, Omaha, Oklahoma City, Tulsa, or Mobile.

 

7) Jack White, The Black Keys, Robert Plant, and many others moved here, not those cities.

 

8) Nashville has 140 buildings over 10 stories, they don't. Not even close.

 

9) Nashville has 13 major colleges and universities including Vanderbilt who is ranked in the top 25 every year.

 

10)  Most of my friends and neighbors are artists, musicians, actors, dancers, models, photographers, film makers. They moved to Nashville, not Omaha.

 

The list could go on and on why Nashville is better. The only people who care about tall buildings are people like us. We have to remember what our population base is. We don't have the population or as Tony has discovered, enough people to buy a 5 million dollar condo on the 50th floor 650-700 feet up.

 

45 floors of apartments is more attractive to banks. Apartments are turnkey and cash flow is constant. There is always a demand for apartments over condos, and many people under 40 now are choosing to rent, so there are many economic and demographic factors at work here.

 

Am I disappointed? Yes. Am I upset, not in the least bit.

 

What do I see happening? I see Nashville following the Portland , Oregon model. Density. Density.Density over heigh for the sheer purpose of height.

 

Although I like tall buildings for the sculpture and artistic value of buildings like the Shard in London, or the Freedom Tower in NYC, Nashville's architectural masterpieces can come from civic buildings, parks, art. sculpture, and pedestrian bridges.

 

Final thought on this matter: The ATT Tower may be our tallest building for many years to come. Studies have shown that there is a limit to how high people want to reside, or stay in a hotel and residential buildings like condos, apartments and hotels have to be utilitarian in design to make them economically viable.

 

Keep in mind the majority of major tall structures in America housed insurance companies, banks, oil companies, telecommunications companies, defense contractors and the like, all of which do not have a major presence in Nashville.

 

So in conclusion, I would rather have the other aspects of Nashville and have a tallest building of 617 feet, rather than be like Omaha, Nebraska with a 600+ foot tower and nothing else. Who vacations in Omaha? Nobody!

 

Those are fine cities in their own right, but Nashville is something special. We don't need super tall structures to be special. America is not a country that shows economic strength by building skyscrapers anymore. In fact when I was last in NYC, what impressed me the most was not all of the new towers, but Smalls Jazz Club in the basement of a 3 story walk-up on West 10th in the Village.

 

Nashville is not a skyscraper city, and never will be. Breaking 600 is a pipe dream. Maybe it will happen, but I am enjoying the city as it is now, and I no longer worry about such things.

 

John, while I appreciate your comments about Nashville's highlights, I was only referencing that these other cities had us beat on the issue of having taller "signature" towers. I wouldn't have tried to score points saying where we (Nashville) are necessarily better than "they" are, though. Each of these cities have desirable qualities: Louisville & Mobile having the kinds of historic neighborhoods chock full of 19th century architecture that we here have simply demolished (or lost due to acts of nature) en masse; Tulsa has a beautiful collection of Art Deco office buildings from the oil boom era of the 1920s (although they do have a skyscraper that probably should NOT have been built, the City of Faith complex, which almost 4 decades after construction began still remains unfinished); OK City & Omaha also have decent collections of buildings (Omaha was larger than Nashville for a time and had a substantial district of warehouses ripe for the kind of conversion popular today. Sadly, one of them was demolished not so long ago).

 

I'm not saying we should build 500+ footers just for the sake of doing so. Having an all-highrise city with no older stock (under 5-story) is nothing to aspire to, either. As spectacular as Dubai looks, consider it has very little to none of what we have on Second Avenue. What I like seeing is a mix. Tall where appropriate, preserving the old elsewhere. I equally lament seeing the drastic amputation of what SHOULD be a supertall on the old Sig/505 site as I do losing those two charming one-story buildings on 12th and that beautiful antebellum house demolished for the Virgin Hotel (nevermind the countless losses within our CBD over the decades, another example being I'd rather have the pre-1970s Deaderick streetscape as opposed to the rather soulless canyon we've had in the years since). Old buildings vs. tall aren't either/or things for me.

[titanhog]

I honestly don't understand the height fetish. I am more focused on a concentrated and excellent density. If our core looked like Portland... Wow... it could afford us so much.

Lots of data exists that residential density in really high building zones isn't as vibrant. People like to live in the 10-15 story zones.

I actually like it all.  Most importantly is what is happening at the street level...but I also like to see a handsome building from a distance.  I would consider myself somewhat of a skyscraper enthusiast...but it's not so much about height as design (though I would like for us to break through the "flat top" barrier.)  That's one of the reasons I really like the rounded edges and more modern design of the JW Marriott.  I like the idea of Nashville having buildings of all different designs and heights.  It just adds to the artistic esthetics.

[bigeasy]

We have people who complain when developers don't release updated renderings because they aren't being transparent enough (Virgin Hotel and Westin). Now people are complaining about a developer being too transparent by releasing updated images as the project evolves to face market and financing realities.

I am not complaining about there being an updated rendering. Height is great, but I prefer density first. I don't want our skyline to look like OKC or Mobile.  I am complaining because I have really liked some of the past ones. I just selfishly wish we could have them all. Outside of the previous one at 750ft, I really really loved the designs because they all had so much personality and were very unique.  Signature Tower and 505 CST were amazing. They would contrast each other nicely in the same city

[titanhog]

I would have loved to have seen Siggy get built.  It would have given us a classic looking structure...a nod to some of the great old skyscrapers in NYC like the Chrysler Building.

[TNinVB]

I totally agree. I loved Signature Tower even with the various changes in height and the crown. Heck I'd be happy with the original version proposed way back in 2006 (not the one without the crown) I guess there's a part of me that is glad 505 isn't going to be our tallest. Yes it would have been nice to see a building surpass 700' but honestly I feel that 505 just isn't architecturally appealing enough. Just looks like a glass box. I still think at its current height it'll add density and look good. Who knows what the future holds, maybe one day we will get a nice "signature" tower. If not, oh well. Nashville is still going to look drastically different within the next three years and I believe most of us will be pleased with the outcome.

Edited April 6, 2015 by bruceman73

[DoermanPhoto]

I know this question will be a huge stretch and assumption, but how much, approximately, do you all think a unit in this building will be around 700-900 sqft? (purchase, not rent)

Edited April 6, 2015 by DoermanPhoto

[dmillsphoto]

$350k-$425k would be my estimate...

[smeagolsfree]

That's low as most of the condo units will be at the top and I would bet start at 700k

[Paramount747]

If the project is $150,000,000 and there are 500 units, then the average price would be $300,000.  If he gets TIF, 10-20% must be affordable. In any case these are apartments, so basically it is going to cost him $300,000 per unit. He will probably end up charging $450,000 per unit on average if he sold them.

 

He said the average hotel room in Nashville being constructed now costs $450,000 when he was at the meet.  So in any case,  anything constructed downtown for sale would be upward of $500,000.

 

I doubt we see any new units come on line for under that. Rents in Bellevue now are $1000+.  When I was in Bellevue this past weekend, I noticed lots of young couples living in Bellevue most likely due to price point, and new housing is booming in Bellevue, so you can just imagine what new stock in the city is going for.

[TNinVB]

So what is the average price of a two to three bedroom apartment in the area? Here in Virginia Beach I live in a two bedroom that is about 1030 sq. ft. and rent is a little over $1400. It's a new development but around here that's pretty much the average price.

[dmillsphoto]

So what is the average price of a two to three bedroom apartment in the area? Here in Virginia Beach I live in a two bedroom that is about 1030 sq. ft. and rent is a little over $1400. It's a new development but around here that's pretty much the average price.

That will be the price of a studio, here... maybe...

[Leif]

That will be the price of a studio, here... maybe...

1505 Demonbruen lowest studio is $1445.

[rookzie]

So what is the average price of a two to three bedroom apartment in the area? Here in Virginia Beach I live in a two bedroom that is about 1030 sq. ft. and rent is a little over $1400. It's a new development but around here that's pretty much the average price.

 

I haven't been to the Beach, since I a few years after moving from Tidewater back some 23 years ago.  I'm just curious, since it was once home for 12 years.  In what part of the VB is this new development, if I may ask? (streets, roads)

-==-

[East Side Urbanite]

Paramount 747 with a strong blog post. And I agree overall.

 

However, I would  say that just because 90 percent of Americans would never think of taking a vacation in Oklahoma City, Mobile, Omaha, Louisville and/or Tulsa (while many WOULD visit Nashville), those Americans might be misguided as they simply would fail to see the many wonderful things about those cities. I know I'm the exception, but I could have a fantastic time visiting any of those cities.

 

WW

[Guest]

So what is the average price of a two to three bedroom apartment in the area? Here in Virginia Beach I live in a two bedroom that is about 1030 sq. ft. and rent is a little over $1400. It's a new development but around here that's pretty much the average price.

The new stuff coming online is in the $2.65 a foot range.

[Guest]

Isn't this project rental? Why all the condo talk?

Standard metrics would be sales at 1.5x the all in cost. Is $150 MM the hard cost or all in cost. Either way they would be expensive.

[TNinVB]

I haven't been to the Beach, since I a few years after moving from Tidewater back some 23 years ago. I'm just curious, since it was once home for 12 years. In what part of the VB is this new development, if I may ask? (streets, roads)

-==-

It's off of Bonney and Baxter Rd. There was once a giant trailer park here and the city got rid of it a few years back. It was a big story here because the city did imminent domain. The area is really nice now from what it used to be. It's parallel to I264 and there are nice views of Town Center. It's not a bad development either. Nice amenities and nice architecture for luxury apartments. They designed the complex and adjacent town homes after Georgetown up in D.C. There are fountains, gas lanterns, and outdoor living areas with televisions and fireplaces. And my 15 year old sons favorite thing is the concierge trash service lol. He doesn't have to worry about taking it out. One of my favorite things is the community garden and club. It's a nice little touch since I don't have a yard. Edited April 7, 2015 by bruceman73

[TNinVB]

Wow you guys aren't kidding when you say prices have gone up back home. I guess I can stop telling people here how much cheaper it is to live in Nashville. At least it used to be.

[Hey_Hey]

Isn't this project rental? Why all the condo talk?

Standard metrics would be sales at 1.5x the all in cost. Is $150 MM the hard cost or all in cost. Either way they would be expensive.

 

It was reported last week that the top portion of the tower could convert to condos if the demand is there.  The top floors will be served by a different elevator system.  

[TNinVB]

And then it would be rebranded Paramount.