Inner Loop - CBD, Downtown, East Bank, Germantown, Gulch, Rutledge

[HGMIII]

Excellent reads, thanks for the 2 new links, I read both the reports

[BnaBreaker]

Folks need to calm down and realize that's not an actual rendering but more a concept drawing. Renderings are meant to show detail and form, which this one obviously does not. 

 

Well, maybe not, but I think one would be kidding themselves if they thought the final design would be much different than the concept drawing.  This building WILL be a glass box.  Sure, the final product might have a few token design elements added so the general public is convinced that the architects were actually trying, but it'll still be a glass box. 

 

The only proposal I can recall that truly made me say "WOW" was 505CST, and now it looks like that idea will be replaced with a parking garage. 

[nashmoney]

Here is the extremely detailed MHZC docket for the mixed-use project at 1235 5th Ave N (SWC of 5th Ave N/Monroe) in Germantown  http://www.nashville.gov/Portals/0/SiteContent/MHZC/docs/2014%20Meetings/05%20May%2021/SR%201235%205th%20Avenue%20North.pdf. 

 

John Root is the architect.  I LOVE the way that this one addresses the corner similar to some of the other historic commercial/residential buildings.  I also love the detailing in the brick.  Fantastic.  This isn't 2nd Empire, but I'll bet FMDJ will still like this one.  Just goes to show the value of having strict design guidelines (Germantown is the more restrictive Historic Preservation District) to place quality control measures on what can be built in one of Nashville's most desirable areas. 

 

I like it! Germantown is booming. I like how they incorporated bike spaces in their plans.

 

Didn't the Dean Admin pass an ammendent requiring all new development have ample bike spaces...I think I remember that being passed.

[Bezoar]

It's not terrible. But it does lack detail (and the few details they do have look funky).

 

Materials could make or break it for me. And the brick color. Please, please don't go with some muddy light brick.

 

Yeah, materials definitely make it or break it.  It's a Dale & Associates project, same people doing the Germantown Cohousing project.  The color renderings on that look ok, so that makes me hopeful.  

[arkitekte]

I'll echo what some of you are saying...this elevation could very much be the exact same building without the questionable vertical stripe.  Elevations rarely make for a great understanding of a building.  I'd bet that the architect is upset that this drawing was chosen to represent the design.

 

That's probably the one that was sent to the paper. They also probably don't have everything about the facade figured out yet, so a general elevation is what they rolled out with. 

 

I still don't understand people getting upset with no detail and "boxes". I thought we already had the architecture on a budget discussion.

[nashmoney]

That's probably the one that was sent to the paper. They also probably don't have everything about the facade figured out yet, so a general elevation is what they rolled out with. 

 

I still don't understand people getting upset with no detail and "boxes". I thought we already had the architecture on a budget discussion.

I can find a similiar sized project, similiar budget, being developed in another city and the architecture would be 10x better.

 

Not upset, just saying more can be done with what we have.

 

That's all.

[Guest]

design aside, my gripe was more about underutilizing the location.....

[nashvillwill]

I wish it were taller, but this building looks to be built mostly on spec. Building a 15 story building in an unproven office neighborhood without a primary tenant is pretty significant in this economy.

I know this was a while back, but I feel like I remember something about Sony Music wanting to move into this building. Is that not still the case?

[CandyAisles]

I can find a similiar sized project, similiar budget, being developed in another city and the architecture would be 10x better.

 

Not upset, just saying more can be done with what we have.

 

That's all.

I just don't know how you could know that from an elevation.

[arkitekte]

I can find a similiar sized project, similiar budget, being developed in another city and the architecture would be 10x better.

 

Not upset, just saying more can be done with what we have.

 

That's all.

 

I'm sure the lease amount is substantially larger as well. 

[titanhog]

I know this was a while back, but I feel like I remember something about Sony Music wanting to move into this building. Is that not still the case?

I hope not.  They have that really cool refurbished "Home for the Aged" building on the Row they've been in for about 15 years that I'd hate to see them leave.  Someone would probably come behind them and tear it down.

[MLBrumby]

underwhelming to say the least... we are in Nashville's 'Golden Age' and 'they' build 11 stories shorter than the codes allow????? 

To sum it up - 99% of Nashville developers lack ANY vision. In fact the ONLY developer that comes close is Tony G. but he has no money, ha.

Maybe the two go hand in hand.

 

You can add to that unfortunate lack of vision the boxes that are proposed/planned in the North Gulch. The largest corporate "citizen" in Nashville blows off a signature office tower (or two!) and bolts for squatty boxes... notwithstanding Alex Palmer's failure to get financing for it.  I wonder what the untold back story of that one is. 

[UTgrad09]

You can add to that unfortunate lack of vision the boxes that are proposed/planned in the North Gulch. The largest corporate "citizen" in Nashville blows off a signature office tower (or two!) and bolts for squatty boxes... notwithstanding Alex Palmer's failure to get financing for it.  I wonder what the untold back story of that one is.

1) no one has shared a rendering of HCA in North Gulch. We don't know the size or shape.

2) the design of WES, while likely taller, was very underwhelming.

[dmillsphoto]

1) no one has shared a rendering of HCA in North Gulch. We don't know the size or shape.

2) the design of WES, while likely taller, was very underwhelming.

 

1) Not publicly, but we have a good idea what it will look like (this is why it's good to come to our meetings in person!). Not specifically HCA, but I can say that along with the renders we have seen thus far, NoGul will look like a solid development. It won't be skyscrapers that are not all-glass, but they will be mid-rises that aren't all-glass.

[UTgrad09]

I do come to the damn meetings.

My point is that a 'glass box' for HCA is still speculation at this point.

North Gulch as a whole seems to draw a lot of hate based on speculation alone. I guess the silver lining is people are setting their expectations to Cool Springs levels.

Edited May 20, 2014 by UTgrad09

[smeagolsfree]

My head is now officially spinning. I am starting to get projects confused. I thought the rendering above was for the 1320 Rosa Parks and that is for the 10th & Scovel.

 

If anyone has a way to pull a rendering for the Rosa Parks and the Creason Project off of the Historic Commission PDF, please do so and post it here.

 

I would bet dmills can do it. I do not have the software.

[bwithers1]

I like it! Germantown is booming. I like how they incorporated bike spaces in their plans.

 

Didn't the Dean Admin pass an ammendent requiring all new development have ample bike spaces...I think I remember that being passed.

CM Peter Westerholm (District 6) worked with Planning staff to draw up the the bill outlining new bicycle parking requirements for commercial and larger multi-family developments.  CM Westerholm is a bicycle and transit enthusiast.  CM Walter Hunt, who is the Council representative on the Planning Commission and the chair of the Council's Planning and Zoning Committee, cosponsored this legislation with CM Westerholm.  That bill literally just passed, and I'm not positive about the effective date.  Some of these projects that we are seeing may actually be ahead of that curve.   

Edited May 20, 2014 by bwithers1

[MLBrumby]

Boys, take a chiller.  This is all just throwing opinions around at this stage.  Toe-may-toe, tuh-mah-toe!  

 

We've seen very little of North Gulch, but from the looks of the the architects' other works, don't expect anything even as attractive as WES might have looked at that prominent spot on West End. 

[nashmoney]

I just don't know how you could know that from an elevation.

 I agree that the elavation non-detailed rendering leaves much to imagine...but let's see

 

ATL is proposing an Omni to their convention center for $207-245 mil. 800 room (doesnt say how tall)

 

Definitely taller and nice than ours (in my opinion), and for $320mil we get a concrete box

 

Downtown Louisville 600 room Omni,400 apartments, high-end grocery store, parking development $261mil

 

Still a box, but more bang for the buck

 

 

Spec building in Arlington County - 20 stories and 410,000 square feet

Cost 110mil

 

 

10 story spec $75mil  - Tempe, AZ

 

[MLBrumby]

Yes, that's a stunning rendering... but you guys have said it so many many times... it's more the client (MDHA and Omni) than the architect.  It is sort of amusing to hear the guys at Omni now admit that they were too conservative (in so many words, of course).  They know they could have sold out every room, with a 1000 room hotel.  If they had, they might have precluded one (or more) of these competing hotels that have announced. 

 

And don't misunderstand, I am glad for the street front activation that the Omni has brought.  And I understand the rooms are quite fine.  I also appreciate the idea behind the North Gulch.. to spread out the urban zones downtown.  But I still have to agree with the point that the clients and developers in town are way way boring.  That's the basis for what I expect from HCA.  

[titanhog]

Could be wrong...but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the HCA development has to be pretty short because of the "capitol view" issue in that area.

[CandyAisles]

 I agree that the elavation non-detailed rendering leaves much to imagine...but let's see

 

ATL is proposing an Omni to their convention center for $207-245 mil. 800 room (doesnt say how tall)

 

Definitely taller and nice than ours (in my opinion), and for $320mil we get a concrete box

 

Downtown Louisville 600 room Omni,400 apartments, high-end grocery store, parking development $261mil

 

Still a box, but more bang for the buck

 

 

Spec building in Arlington County - 20 stories and 410,000 square feet

Cost 110mil

 

 

10 story spec $75mil  - Tempe, AZ

 

 

Wait until either Omni is complete or even built.  Do you not recall the original Omni rendering for Nashville?  It was a nice concept with differing window elevations and gradating sizes.

 

Personally speaking, that curved Tempe spec looks weak and the Arlington building better look nice if $110 million buys you 410,000 sf. 

[HGMIII]

My head is now officially spinning. I am starting to get projects confused. I thought the rendering above was for the 1320 Rosa Parks and that is for the 10th & Scovel.

 

If anyone has a way to pull a rendering for the Rosa Parks and the Creason Project off of the Historic Commission PDF, please do so and post it here.

 

I would bet dmills can do it. I do not have the software.

Anyone can use Print Screen grab function, here is a pull from the 1320 Rosa Parks .pdf

 

 

Pic 2

 

[CandyAisles]

Yes, that's a stunning rendering... but you guys have said it so many many times... it's more the client (MDHA and Omni) than the architect.  It is sort of amusing to hear the guys at Omni now admit that they were too conservative (in so many words, of course).  They know they could have sold out every room, with a 1000 room hotel.  If they had, they might have precluded one (or more) of these competing hotels that have announced. 

 

And don't misunderstand, I am glad for the street front activation that the Omni has brought.  And I understand the rooms are quite fine.  I also appreciate the idea behind the North Gulch.. to spread out the urban zones downtown.  But I still have to agree with the point that the clients and developers in town are way way boring.  That's the basis for what I expect from HCA.  

 

It's the market more than anything.  Nashville is barely ready to pay $300/night for the Omni for the "luxury experience".  The Standard at the High Line is 66% more expensive a night...so, yeah...buildings are gonna have more finesse to them where there is more investment involved.

[mundiejc]

Possible new residential price point in Buena Vista? Remodeled shotgun house just went on the market. 976 square feet. 200k list. That's like 205 per square foot.