Inner Loop - CBD, Downtown, East Bank, Germantown, Gulch, Rutledge

[rookzie]

I agree.  I'm all for historic preservation, but while the Ben West is representative of an interesting point in the history of architecture, there is nothing about it that I personally find to be worthy of saving, particularly because I just don't see how it could be transformed into a viable urban development that met today's standards.  I mean, the ground floor appears to be a parking garage, and that is surrounded by blank support walls.  What could possibly be done with it that would merit keeping it over a larger more contemporary development that could really provide a spark to that corner of downtown?

 

 

I like the Ben West Library. It's got some interesting features, and it's personally a bit nostalgic for me.

 

If the city can come up with a good alternative use for the building, I'm all for it. Perhaps something could be developed on the parking lot behind it, and utilize the library structure as some sort of event space.

 

But if the right development came along, I wouldn't be opposed to its demolition. 

 

Back after the 2010 flood, when MTA lost much of its bus fleet and other municipalities had offered to have postponed the delivery of their orders for new transit coaches from the manufacturers (Gillig and NABI [now New Flyer]), in deference to Nashville's dire transit needs, the school kids went just Ape on the 15-year old buses loaned the MTA from Cincinnati (Southwest OHIO - "SORTA").  They thought those old buses had been "God's gift to hipness", perhaps because the buses were older than the kids themselves.  The kids would even snarl, if a new bus would come for their boarding, rather than one of those dug-up, moth-balled loaners.

 

While I spent a lot of time in the Ben West Library during the mid-to-late '60s, I really had spent far more time back then in the State Library, the structure of which I felt had been much more intriguing (which actually was only about a year newer than I).  Yes, UTgrad09, that too means I "might" be historic, so I'll say it in advance.  I believe that all those slab panels of white marble and contoured granite copings on the surrounding wall of small granite blocks, are more interesting than the actual architectural design itself ─ that's just my take on the Ben West Library.  As I had been a high-school student from '65-'69, the most dazzling feature openly expressed by the patrons of that library seemed to have been the views overlooking the west side of the hill, as seen from the reference and circulation rooms.

 

I actually am taken aback with Metro's constraints on reuse of that property, in consideration of all the much finer local examples of "period" structures falling the way of the dodo, an example of which I had mentioned several months ago in reference to another but truly historic piece of property, the Romanesque-revival Union Station.  The city almost immediately had been on the verge of demolishing that thing, following the then-L&N RR's (pre-CSX) turning over the deed to the city.  I could understand Metro keeping in check an empty Ben West Safety building (now attached to the much newer A.A. Birch Bldg. as part of the CJ system).  This domed-brick building sits on the northeast portion of what had been the courthouse square ─ now Jas. Rob Pkwy, and many of us recall a "voluntary" visit or two (7 or 8 maybe?) to that somewhat interesting structure, reduced to a bit of mediocrity for housing traffic- and other courts.  During my early childhood before this real Ben West bldg. had been named such, it still had been the City Market House (1937-1954).  This building remains as one of the very few domed anythings around with any prominence (NES and Peabody College's Social-Religious Bldg. being among them).

 

Now, this building I could see Metro putting the clamps on, because it likely would have many proponents (if not many more) advocating its preservation.  Metro seems to want to hold on to anything of its own, at whatever costs, rather than relinquish full autonomy on it.

 

Former Interior of the REAL Ben West Building - pre-dating Jas Rob Pkwy

(City Market stainless steel display area as viewed under vaulted ceiling ─ used for fish and meats)

-==-

Edited May 1, 2015 by rookzie

[fieldmarshaldj]

Kind of reminds me of my home town's (Lawrenceburg, Tn) court house.

 

 

I'd be interested to know if it was designed by the same Architect; Hart, Freeland and Roberts, and built in 1974 

 

My reference book on Nashville architecture says the Nashville/Ben West Library was designed by Taylor & Crabtree (in 1966). They also designed the Polk, Jackson & Union Planters towers.

Edited May 1, 2015 by fieldmarshaldj

[smeagolsfree]

This is from the Post and behind the paywall.

But the highlights are

5 parcels at the SWcorner of 5th and Peabody are under contract and may have sold.

We have heard it is a Charlotte developer

At this time we are hearing 8 stories, 250 units with first floor retail.

https://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2015/5/1/sobro_site_under_contract_as_residential_project_might_loom

[Nashville Cliff]

My reference book on Nashville architecture says the Nashville/Ben West Library was designed by Taylor & Crabtree (in 1966). They also designed the Polk, Jackson & Union Planters towers.

 

I wonder whatever happened to the clock tower?  BTW, I'm going to open myself to ridicule and go on record as saying I'm glad Metro is preserving this building.  Rookzie, I agree we have torn down much greater treasures, but I think Metro's efforts show that we are more attune to architectural preservation now than we were when they almost tore down Union Station.  Well, at least for public buildings.  Nashville's developers, or I should say those developing in Nashville, sadly, seem, with some shining exceptions, to not give a damn.

[Paramount747]

I wonder whatever happened to the clock tower?  BTW, I'm going to open myself to ridicule and go on record as saying I'm glad Metro is preserving this building.  Rookzie, I agree we have torn down much greater treasures, but I think Metro's efforts show that we are more attune to architectural preservation now than we were when they almost tore down Union Station.  Well, at least for public buildings.  Nashville's developers, or I should say those developing in Nashville, sadly, seem, with some shining exceptions, to not give a damn.

Agreed. This building can be retrofitted, and the wood work inside is worth preserving alone. This could be a very nice restaurant space with underground parking. Retail could be worked into the garage facing west. The family that owns the parking lot facing Church Street is never going to sell. That is an income generator for that family for decades to come. Rehab the Ben West Library. It is a classic example of the bridge between Modern and Post Modernism of the 1960's before the brutalist/industrial age of the 1970's.

[smeagolsfree]

24 unit town-home project coming to the Metro Center area.

 

https://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2015/5/1/metrocenter_could_land_24_unit_townhome_project

[smeagolsfree]

Fresh Hospitality planning a restaurant at the location of the old Rutledge Music Venue.

 

https://www.nashvillepost.com/blogs/postbusiness/2015/5/1/fresh_hospitality_enlists_daad_for_sobro_building_update

[subkyle]

This is from the Post and behind the paywall.

But the highlights are

5 parcels at the SWcorner of 5th and Peabody are under contract and may have sold.

We have heard it is a Charlotte developer

At this time we are hearing 8 stories, 250 units with first floor retail.

https://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2015/5/1/sobro_site_under_contract_as_residential_project_might_loom

 

They are going to make sure this building gets done right. One of the guys financing this project is a friend of mine. I am a little peeved that the old strip club building will be taken down. Its got some really nice features, and the oldest portion of the building looks old.

 

First post ever! Been a fan of this board for years now.

[nashwatcher]

SubKyle I'm confused. Is the SoBro development the strip club site or the site across the street? This area is really heating up!

[Bezoar]

Fresh Hospitality planning a restaurant at the location of the old Rutledge Music Venue.

 

https://www.nashvillepost.com/blogs/postbusiness/2015/5/1/fresh_hospitality_enlists_daad_for_sobro_building_update

 

I think it's a Martin's BBQ:  http://nashville.eater.com/2015/4/28/8500559/martins-bar-b-que-sobro-rutledge

[smeagolsfree]

I told you guys SoBro was about to get red Hot. I will say there is probably more on the way. There are a number of parcels that may be of interest. Once the Division street connector is finished, then you will see that end of SoBro heat up.

[rookzie]

They are going to make sure this building gets done right. One of the guys financing this project is a friend of mine. I am a little peeved that the old strip club building will be taken down. Its got some really nice features, and the oldest portion of the building looks old.

 

First post ever! Been a fan of this board for years now.

 

Well, subkyle, since no one else seems to have done so otherwise by this time, welcome to the sub-forum, on behalf of all (if I can "legally" do so without getting warned).  You've been lurkin' "...for years now", as you say, but I've only been around since late Aug. 2013.

-==-

[rookzie]

Agreed. This building can be retrofitted, and the wood work inside is worth preserving alone. This could be a very nice restaurant space with underground parking. Retail could be worked into the garage facing west. The family that owns the parking lot facing Church Street is never going to sell. That is an income generator for that family for decades to come. Rehab the Ben West Library. It is a classic example of the bridge between Modern and Post Modernism of the 1960's before the brutalist/industrial age of the 1970's.

 

I have to level with my gut feeling and admit that I’m more inclined to want the former B-W Library bldg. transformed into some contemporary reuse, than I’d want to see it replaced, as it does have its niche within the CBD.  But at the current rate of landing viable prospects, the structure is suffering a slow, deleterious death, as it remains unoccupied for an ever extending period of disuse.

Correct me if I’m wrong.  I don’t believe that Metro has any ongoing provisions for nominally maintaining that building at present, or at least I have no reason to think so.  The roof and its drains, flashings, and copings – any undetected failure of any single element of these can and frequently does lead to hidden, concealed damage of interior walls, eventually seriously compromising the integrity of the structure.  ParamountSeven47 just made me recall sight of all the beautiful wood paneling in that thing, which I really hadn’t taken the time to really appreciate until during a series of all-day symposium meetings which I had attended while in the library profession during the late ‘90s.  I have seen cases with a similar vintage building less than 3 miles away, where such rich wall coverings had deteriorated from behind with termite damage, undetected for years, until it had become discovered by a general contractor for an interior renovation well underway at that time.

We only can hope that the fate of the former library won’t be predicated decisively on its condition or state of disrepair.

-==-

 

[subkyle]

SubKyle I'm confused. Is the SoBro development the strip club site or the site across the street? This area is really heating up!

 

His property is the strip club and the Subway. He had to put a ton of $$ into that Subway during build out, and it will eventually be torn down. Think the strip club has a little less than two years left so this might take a while. Pretty sure a little over 10 floors.

Well, subkyle, since no one else seems to have done so otherwise by this time, welcome to the sub-forum, on behalf of all (if I can "legally" do so without getting warned).  You've been lurkin' "...for years now", as you say, but I've only been around since late Aug. 2013.

-==-

 

Thanks for the welcome! Love your posts regarding transportation.

[MLBrumby]

More details on the latest announced apartment block project at 5th and Peabody...  http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2015/05/01/sobro-apartment-project-works-nc-developer/26720463/

[smeagolsfree]

They are going to make sure this building gets done right. One of the guys financing this project is a friend of mine. I am a little peeved that the old strip club building will be taken down. Its got some really nice features, and the oldest portion of the building looks old.

 

First post ever! Been a fan of this board for years now.

Welcome to the forum. Just curious,what is your connection to that part of town?

You seem to know the players there and we probably have some contacts in common.

[mundiejc]

This is awesome. My family is gonna go check it out this afternoon.

http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2015/05/01/apartments-destruction-canvas-pop-artists/26720435/

[Bezoar]

3rd & Monroe today:

 

[Guest]

Agreed. This building can be retrofitted, and the wood work inside is worth preserving alone. This could be a very nice restaurant space with underground parking. Retail could be worked into the garage facing west. The family that owns the parking lot facing Church Street is never going to sell. That is an income generator for that family for decades to come. Rehab the Ben West Library. It is a classic example of the bridge between Modern and Post Modernism of the 1960's before the brutalist/industrial age of the 1970's.

Just because something can be physically retrofitted doesn't mean it makes any financial sense. And the only way these sort of things happen in the private world is that the numbers work. Period. Sorry that if that is harsh.

Like it or not this type of project makes zero financial sense as a private rehabilitation unless the city is willing to basically give the building away. No restaurant can take down 25,000 SF. Retail along the sloped highway style design of Rosa Parks and 9th isn't going to survive. The upper floor can't be rented to office because there is absolutely no parking. It is a pedestrian death trap with the way the streets work. It meets none of the good open first floor urban design principals of modern design.

The city is looking for some private developer to bail them out here. If they really want to rehabilitate the building and save the architecture then they need to find another civic use. It isn't good for much else. If the wood and marble is so wonderful then salvage it for reuse. I think maintaining the buildings history through material reuse may end up being the most likely option.

[rookzie]

Just because something can be physically retrofitted doesn't mean it makes any financial sense. And the only way these sort of things happen in the private world is that the numbers work. Period. Sorry that if that is harsh.

Like it or not this type of project makes zero financial sense as a private rehabilitation unless the city is willing to basically give the building away. No restaurant can take down 25,000 SF. Retail along the sloped highway style design of Rosa Parks and 9th isn't going to survive. The upper floor can't be rented to office because there is absolutely no parking. It is a pedestrian death trap with the way the streets work. It meets none of the good open first floor urban design principals of modern design.

The city is looking for some private developer to bail them out here. If they really want to rehabilitate the building and save the architecture then they need to find another civic use. It isn't good for much else. If the wood and marble is so wonderful then salvage it for reuse. I think maintaining the buildings history through material reuse may end up being the most likely option.

 

That's basically how it see it pretty much, regardless of whether "historic" or not.  While the city may have made strides toward historic preservation during the past quarter century, as Nashville Cliff pointed out about this matter recently, the city is loathe to invest on adaptive reuse of almost any structure that it labels as obsolete, and as a result it frequently will hold onto it in hopes that a private investor with encumber the cost of rehabbing, or simply hold onto it for eventual reclaim by the vermin, thus making such a venture that more costly.

 

Now Metro talks about vacating the CJC, in part citing rationale that Capital Project Solutions concluded that new construction would be more cost-effective for Metro, compared to renovation.  So even it it may seem unfair to compare the issue of reuse of the Ben West building with civil safety and security, Metro would undertake all will to unload the CJC property, by utilizing eminent domain to build another headquarters and any other measures to implement the transition, while not considering it "cost-effective" to fix up its own back yard with the Ben West bldg.  Cost-effective or not, while the exterior marble and granite is pretty, along with the interior wood paneling, the city needs to pi$$ or get off the pot, on the near-future fate of that building.  With the outgoing mayor considering himself unequivocally and unapologetically "pro-business", the future may hold much of the same in store, but I at least can hope for better accountability in such decision-making.

-==-

Edited May 3, 2015 by rookzie

[rookzie]

Can't help it. I can't say until it goes public and we still don't know all the details. I will say a medium sized project.

 

You might not be quite as old as George Burns, but you do have that "Oh God" crystal ball, the rechargeable type that is. Then, too, maybe like Gary Hobson on "Early Edition", although fortunately you're not having to save us from the future (at least I don't see it that way).  You probably find yourself shaking your head to some our posts as we seem to wait around like possums and wild hogs scavenging up the forum landscape for fallen crab-apples and scraps of news.  ("if they only knew, .," said ye ol' soothsayer)

-==-

Edited May 3, 2015 by rookzie

[smeagolsfree]

I would have shared with you yesterday if you had been there Ricky. Shame, shame, shame. We really didn't talk about the built environment as much as we did about transportation, gentrification, and air transit issues. The meeting was a perfect one for you.

I shared about a couple a new projects, but kept my mouth shut about another one. We will have the info on one of the smaller projects Monday, as it will be in the Post.

[mundiejc]

24 unit town-home project coming to the Metro Center area.

https://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2015/5/1/metrocenter_could_land_24_unit_townhome_project

I'm not sure why they are branding this metro center. This is definitely Jones-Buena Vista/ North Nashville.

[Vrtigo]

Serendipity led me to have a few beers last Friday with Zach Liff, owner of Cummins Station. It was fascinating to hear of the journey this property and its surroundings have been through over the past several decades.

 

After the many years of mismanagement that many of you are well aware of, Cummins Station is finally a thriving, highly desired destination for many businesses looking to relocate here. He has met with developers in far away places like San Francisco who speak highly of this building specifically as a success story for adaptive reuse. No specifics were given, but it was even mentioned that a global 15,000+ employee organization had indicated interest in placing their US headquarters in the building, should space become available.

 

In other news, he shared that the pedestrian bridge is still moving along, but that it needed some structural redesign to ensure that the thing would ever win its battle with gravity. He is waiting to see how this pans out before he moves forward with developing the parking lots between Cummins and Cannery.

 

Also that the additional floors (one, or maybe two...) on top of Cummins are still very much in the cards. Perkins+Will have been enlisted to design the addition, so we know there is plenty of talent there. At this point, not much stands in the way beyond some basic approvals and finding the right tenant before work can begin.

[smeagolsfree]

I'm not sure why they are branding this metro center. This is definitely Jones-Buena Vista/ North Nashville.

For the same reason folks on 8th South and 12th South past the interstate are branding as the Gulch. desirable location. Metro Center is more stable than the area across Rosa Parks and few people  know where Jones- BV Heights are.