Inner Loop - CBD, Downtown, East Bank, Germantown, Gulch, Rutledge

[rookzie]

On 2/28/2019 at 3:53 PM, markhollin said:

A few more details regarding the repurposing of the Neuhhoff Packing Plant and adjoining parcel (total of 9.2 acres) by New City LLC out of Atlanta. These are not finalized, but were filed with Metro Planning:

• 371 residential units
• 662,000 square feet of "general office space"
• 35 hotel rooms
• 60,000 square feet of restaurant space
• 70,000 square feet of retail space
• Kimley-Horn and Assoc. is in charge of planning/engineering
   

Also, it is not clear yet if an additional 5 acres that is owned by Cumberland River Development  (the same entity that owned the Neuhoff Plant) will sell those to New City as well, or if they will retain those and develop separately. 

More behind the NBJ paywall here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2019/02/28/developer-aims-to-pack-a-lot-into-revived.html?iana=hpmvp_nsh_news_headline

 

On 3/31/2019 at 1:10 PM, Quixotic 1 said:

.... Doesn't seem odd to me at all that hundreds of millions of dollars are being invested here. It's the best neighborhood in Nashville as far as I am concerned.  The Neuhoff plan announced in the NBJ is pretty amazing. 

 

We'll just have to wait for the assessment of damage from the fire Thursday morning (today) in the vacant Neuhoff plant.  I remember ops in that building from way back.  Either it would be or it would have been an interesting transformation for adaptive re-use, as sprawling of masonry structure as it is.

-==-

[Craiger]

On 8/27/2019 at 8:54 AM, Bos2Nash said:

FWIW, I believe the bridge is an essential part of infrastructure that definitely should be built. I have no idea how to fund it, but I would prefer a private/public partnership (*cough* station district owner *cough*) to help fund the bridge. 

A bridge that saves tourists 5-10 minutes is essential infrastructure? Come on. The Gulch isn't some sort of beleaguered food desert 45 minutes from anything. As 8th Ave and Demonbreun continues to develop, this bridge is less and less valuable. 

Now if Gulch business and Station District want to come together, then by all means. Build five bridges if you want, and a tunnel or two for rainy days. 

[nashvylle]

21 minutes ago, Craiger said:

A bridge that saves tourists 5-10 minutes is essential infrastructure? Come on. The Gulch isn't some sort of beleaguered food desert 45 minutes from anything. As 8th Ave and Demonbreun continues to develop, this bridge is less and less valuable. 

Now if Gulch business and Station District want to come together, then by all means. Build five bridges if you want, and a tunnel or two for rainy days. 

It won’t just be tourists... and this is coming from someone who really wants bridges everywhere, not just at this location, but understands why now is not the time to build it. 

[Craiger]

2 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

It won’t just be tourists... and this is coming from someone who really wants bridges everywhere, not just at this location, but understands why now is not the time to build it. 

You're right I was being a bit disingenuous with the tourist comment, but my point is that it is really just a small time saver. The Gulch is and should be it's own neighborhood with it's own amenities. Heck, it's one of the few urban neighborhoods with it's own grocery store already. It doesn't need to be 5 minutes "closer" to downtown to for anything other than a small bit of convenience for a small subset of the city's population. 

[nashvylle]

14 minutes ago, Craiger said:

You're right I was being a bit disingenuous with the tourist comment, but my point is that it is really just a small time saver. The Gulch is and should be it's own neighborhood with it's own amenities. Heck, it's one of the few urban neighborhoods with it's own grocery store already. It doesn't need to be 5 minutes "closer" to downtown to for anything other than a small bit of convenience for a small subset of the city's population. 

the bridge is certainly a "nice to have" not a "need to have". 

[ruraljuror]

1 hour ago, nashvylle said:

the bridge is certainly a "nice to have" not a "need to have". 

You may be right, but the city already decided that the bridge is a "going to have"  - which has led to land swapping behind cummins station and designs being drawn up for the station district that accommodate the bridge, both of which cost money and time (which equals money) that the city could be on the hook for if we decide to scrap the bridge.  I wouldn't be surprised if the W hotel and that new short brick building decided to get in on the lawsuit as well claiming that the pedestrian bridge was partially responsible for inducing their development construction.  I could be wrong, but my guess is that it would cost the city at least half as much to scrap the plan as it would to just build the thing.

That said, I do agree that holding off on it for the time being is probably a good move.  

[nashvylle]

Just now, ruraljuror said:

You may be right, but the city already decided that the bridge is a "going to have"  - which has led to land swapping behind cummins station and designs being drawn up for the station district that accommodate the bridge, both of which cost money and time (which equals money) that the city could be on the hook for if we decide to scrap the bridge.  I wouldn't be surprised if the W hotel and that new short brick building decided to get in on the lawsuit as well claiming that the pedestrian bridge was partially responsible for inducing their development construction.  I could be wrong, but my guess is that it would cost the city at least half as much to scrap the plan as it would to just build the thing.

That said, I do agree that holding off on it for the time being is probably a good move.  

good point. I do not think it is scrapped indefinitely, but for the time being. 

[downtownresident]

15 hours ago, e-dub said:

That store is going to CLEAN UP.  I was surprised how much I went to the HG Hills when I lived on Church Street.

Yes it is! All of the surrounding residents, office workers, and hotel/tourist traffic will keep this place packed. They opened this afternoon. 

[Bos2Nash]

17 hours ago, markhollin said:

Market Street Enterprises is going to take a portion of one of their empty lots in the Gulch and turn it into a dog park.  The 12,000 sq. ft. green space will be at 1218 Pine St. and back up against the I-65 inner loop.

More behind the NBJ paywall here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2019/08/29/the-gulchs-newest-amenity-is-for-the-dogs.html?iana=hpmvp_nsh_news_headline
 

Interesting that this is popping up. We did a tour of 1212 about a month ago and were given some information that there exterior dog park (see red outline below) is actually not their land, so they technically dont have a dog park other than the turf space that is inside their parking structure. Wonder if this will be a free park or one of those membership parks.

3 hours ago, Craiger said:

You're right I was being a bit disingenuous with the tourist comment, but my point is that it is really just a small time saver. The Gulch is and should be it's own neighborhood with it's own amenities. Heck, it's one of the few urban neighborhoods with it's own grocery store already. It doesn't need to be 5 minutes "closer" to downtown to for anything other than a small bit of convenience for a small subset of the city's population. 

You are right in the fact that The Gulch does not need to be 5 minutes closer to downtown, but what the Gulch does need is better Pedestrian connectiveness to downtown and SoBro. Walking along Demonbruen and/or 8th Ave is not a pleasant or even at times safe walk. So having a dedicated pedestrian corridor that just so happens to unload in the central section of two subdistricts is a reasonable infrastructure investment . Again the funding would be the sticking point, but whether or not it is a private venture, public/private or fully public project, having a connection would be very beneficial.

[NashWellington11]

3 hours ago, Craiger said:

You're right I was being a bit disingenuous with the tourist comment, but my point is that it is really just a small time saver. The Gulch is and should be it's own neighborhood with it's own amenities. Heck, it's one of the few urban neighborhoods with it's own grocery store already. It doesn't need to be 5 minutes "closer" to downtown to for anything other than a small bit of convenience for a small subset of the city's population. 

Why not? Millions of dollars are spent to build and widen roads to save car commuters 5-10 minutes all the time.

Also, as I already mentioned above, I think the bridge would actually be used more by people in SoBro heading to the Gulch instead of the other way around. You're right that the Gulch is one of the few truly urban neighborhoods, and as other areas like SoBro grow with residents, they will need to access the Gulch's amenities until their own neighborhoods are fully developed with retail, full service restaurants, gyms, etc. instead of being geared to the 9-5 business crowd and/or convention-goers/tourists/special events.

As for the number of people it will service, that can be a slippery slope. I can assure you more people will use this than some of the roads are used in the outer areas of the county.

[donNdonelson2]

Perhaps we could lease out the rights to access points to a private developer who could design & build an eye catching, SPECTACULAR bridge with an elevated observation platform. Let them charge a fee to cross the bridge and access the observation level for great photo opportunities. That provides the “connectivity” AND minimizes the potential for it becoming a haven for panhandlers or other unsavory characters.

[markhollin]

Pins Mechanical (22,000 sq. ft. re-use of warehouse for bowling, games, entertainment, and bar) update.  Paint job complete, signage goin up.

Looking NW from intersection of 11th Ave. North and Grundy St:

Looking NW from Grundy St., 1/4 block west of 11th Ave. North:

 

Looking west along Grundy St., 1/2 block west of 11th Ave. North:




Looking NW from 11th Ave. North, 1/4 block north of Grundy St:

[Vrtigo]

Regarding the pedestrian bridge: There is a lot of discussion going on about the time saved or distance traveled, but very little acknowledgement of the psychological impact that it might have on the pedestrian experience.

I have been in numerous different cities and circumstances where a fifteen minute trip through an unpleasant or downright dangerous area was enough deterrent to keep me from making the trip altogether. On the other hand, I have been in plenty of other circumstances where the same length trip with pleasant transportation and intriguing sights along the way was more than enough impetus for me to make the trek.

Yes, the distance is not much shorter and the time saved is minimal, but I guarantee you that this bridge will see plenty enough use to make its construction worthwhile.

(Now if they would just quit value-engineering the crap out of it, there might still be enough attraction remaining to leave my point valid.)

Edited September 5, 2019 by Vrtigo

[Craiger]

No offense, but if we are getting down to the psychological impact on tourists and wealthy six figure downtown residents, then I feel like you are now making my point for me. Should we name a few neighborhoods that have epidemic levels of mental health issues that could use a few million dollars to help address their mental health? 

What is so unpleasant about the Demonbreun street viaduct? Also, is that one the state is replacing or is that church and broadway? 

Maybe the city hires some psychologists to stage on either side of Demonbreun bridge to debrief the harrowing journey

 

[Nash_12South]

16 minutes ago, Craiger said:

No offense, but if we are getting down to the psychological impact on tourists and wealthy six figure downtown residents, then I feel like you are now making my point for me. Should we name a few neighborhoods that have epidemic levels of mental health issues that could use a few million dollars to help address their mental health? 

What is so unpleasant about the Demonbreun street viaduct? Also, is that one the state is replacing or is that church and broadway? 

Maybe the city hires some psychologists to stage on either side of Demonbreun bridge to debrief the harrowing journey

 

If you are were trying to reach East Nashville, and the distances were essentially the same, would you choose Woodland St. Bridge or Shelby Street Bridge? Most folks seem to choose Shelby Street.  I was just in NYC and often picked the slightly longer route to somewhere because the experience was simply better. I may not be sold on public funding for the walkway, but I do see the upsides. 

[MLBrumby]

Yet more apartments for Germantown. From WW at NashvillePost.com: https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/development/article/21084961/germantown-site-eyed-for-two-apartments-buildings

- Located on the Werthan campus on Hume Street at Press Place

- Called Hume House and The Hamilton

- 2 Four-story buildings will share a structured parking garage and a courtyard/atrium component

[smeagolsfree]

1 hour ago, Craiger said:

No offense, but if we are getting down to the psychological impact on tourists and wealthy six figure downtown residents, then I feel like you are now making my point for me. Should we name a few neighborhoods that have epidemic levels of mental health issues that could use a few million dollars to help address their mental health? 

What is so unpleasant about the Demonbreun street viaduct? Also, is that one the state is replacing or is that church and broadway? 

Maybe the city hires some psychologists to stage on either side of Demonbreun bridge to debrief the harrowing journey

 

The Broadway viaduct is due for replacement. If the put stairs, which I think they will into the Gulch that will further help the issue. I have stopped many tourist looking to get from the Gulch to Broadway and told them they have to go up McGavock. They look at the map and think they can simply appear on Broadway 60 feet above them.

[AronG]

If you look at these as pure engineering decisions, with a zero sum allocation of resources and people as automatons, of course stuff like this is never going to make sense.

If you look at the city as a collection of places for people to live their lives in, neighborhoods that can be invested in and cultivated into pleasant human environments, you're likely to see things differently. That's true on an intuitive level, and ironically it ends up making financial sense as well. Cities full of soulless streetscapes optimized for car traffic (like our current Demonbreun, 8th, etc.) don't achieve the full potential of vibrant urban areas, neither for the people that live there nor for the city via the resulting property taxes.

In this case, it seems obvious that proposals like the Station District will play out very differently with and without this infrastructure investment to channel the focus of the surrounding developments. With it, they'll likely move faster, be taller/denser, and result in better human street environments. Without it they'll likely take longer to come to fruition, balance their design more towards garage access for commuters and/or the assumption that occupants will uber everywhere, and have a streetscape that demonstrates those priorities.

[downtownresident]

2 hours ago, Craiger said:

No offense, but if we are getting down to the psychological impact on tourists and wealthy six figure downtown residents, then I feel like you are now making my point for me. Should we name a few neighborhoods that have epidemic levels of mental health issues that could use a few million dollars to help address their mental health? 

What is so unpleasant about the Demonbreun street viaduct? Also, is that one the state is replacing or is that church and broadway? 

Maybe the city hires some psychologists to stage on either side of Demonbreun bridge to debrief the harrowing journey

 

The sidewalk on the Demonbreun Street viaduct is tiny, barely two people can’t fit walking side by side. There is also a utility pole in the sidewalk next to Cummins station that makes the sidewalk even more narrow. I have to step into the bike lane every time I cross it. 

 

The proposed bridge would do wonders to connect the Gulch, Sobro, and the area around 8th and spur more residential development on the Sobro side. 

[Ingram]

The Gulch and SoBro crowd can pay for the bridge themselves. They simply need to cut back on the millions they spend on craft beer, smoothies, and gourmet coffee.

Edited September 3, 2019 by Ingram

[BnaBreaker]

8 hours ago, Ingram said:

The Gulch and SoBro crowd can pay for the bridge themselves. They simply need to cut back on the millions they spend on craft beer, smoothies, and gourmet coffee.

Hmm... yeah... sorry bud, that's not how any of this has ever worked.  It sounds like you meant to buy yourself a deserted island, but instead wound up living in a city with 700,000 other people.  I will never understand those who foam at the mouth at the mere thought of anything communal, but then make the conscious decision to join a community in which it is understood (and has been for about ten thousand years) that the community will take care of your needs if you take part in contributing to the community's needs.  It makes no sense.  Of course, if you have an issue with any of your pennies going toward things you don't personally benefit from, you could always go build a cabin in a Montana forest somewhere... but even there you'd still have state taxes.  Perhaps a lawless broken state run by war lords is more your speed.  May I suggest Somalia or South Sudan?

Also, and this is just a friendly suggestion, but maybe you should go try a craft beer.  You might find that this new and different thing that makes you all grumpy because of who you identify it with is actually something you quite enjoy.

Edited September 3, 2019 by BnaBreaker

[Nashvillain]

7 hours ago, Ingram said:

The Gulch and SoBro crowd can pay for the bridge themselves. They simply need to cut back on the millions they spend on craft beer, smoothies, and gourmet coffee.

Then it would be a bridge to nowhere after all the pubs, smoothie joints and coffee shops go out of business

[FromParkAveToTN]

9 hours ago, Ingram said:

The Gulch and SoBro crowd can pay for the bridge themselves. They simply need to cut back on the millions they spend on craft beer, smoothies, and gourmet coffee.

LOVE this idea.  I agree 1 billion percent. 

[BnaBreaker]

29 minutes ago, FromParkAveToTN said:

LOVE this idea.  I agree 1 billion percent. 

Are you and Ingram also interested in funding all construction/maintenance on the roads you live on and the sidewalks you walk on and sewers you use without the help of everyone else in the county?

[markhollin]

MDHA yesterday approved the Hume House/The Hamilton (4 & 5 story apartment buildings with shared internal garage) between Werthan Lofts and The Flats at Taylor place just south of Hume St. in Germantown  A new layout diagram is available below.  Still no word on how many units.

More at The Nashville Post here:

https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/development/article/21085208/mdha-committee-oks-riverfront-tower-modifications