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Inner Loop - CBD, Downtown, East Bank, Germantown, Gulch, Rutledge


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The aerial photos recently posted of the the new roundabout and SoBro area got me thinking that Peabody St would be cool if it was converted into a pedestrian friendly shopping area like the (albeit on a smaller scale) 3rd St Promenade in Santa Monica.  I think that could be awesome once the area gets built up and would give convention goers something other than Broadway/Gulch to walk to and would address the lack of downtown retail. Thoughts?

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Anyone know the space between the buildings on 3rd St. Promenade listed above?  70-80' of right of way?

 

Can anyone outline anything in the US or oversees that is successful with a 15-30' space between the buildings?  I can think of a few places in Spain and Holland.

On a very small scale, Printer's Alley. By my crude Google Maps measuring tool guestimate, that's 17-24 feet wide.

Edited by UTgrad09
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Some pretty exciting changes coming for Bridgestone Arena.

 

http://nashvillepost.com/news/2013/1/4/changes_coming_to_bridgestone_arena

 

The south entrance facing the MCC will be revamped. A partial concrete wall replacement with glass. Retail/dining spaces to be added along Demonbreun and 5th Ave.The Police Precinct will move to KVB and that space will be opened up for private development.

 

SWEEEEEET!!!!!

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Some pretty exciting changes coming for Bridgestone Arena.

 

http://nashvillepost.com/news/2013/1/4/changes_coming_to_bridgestone_arena

 

The south entrance facing the MCC will be revamped. A partial concrete wall replacement with glass. Retail/dining spaces to be added along Demonbreun and 5th Ave.The Police Precinct will move to KVB and that space will be opened up for private development.

 

SWEEEEEET!!!!!

I knew of the plans for the Demonbreun side of the arena since last year's Skate of the Union (Predators). I haven't seen anything in terms of visuals, but the exact statement made by the Preds leadership was "the back door will become the front door." While I don't think it will, exactly, I think that now that there is actually stuff on Demonbreun (unlike when the arena opened 16 years ago), there is a need for a more attractive facade there.

What I had not heard was the bit about the central precinct moving(which I thought was a kind of cool location, though they sucked up all the parking on Broad & 6th). That, along with some minor changes to the front side of the arena, could be something to be excited about. With the current convention center and the arena, the active part of the street pretty much ends @ 5th, funneling into the arena entrance. If that and the old convention center get some new tenants, it could bring some new life to what is sort of a dead zone right now (well, part of that has to do with the steady incline that begins right there).

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Awesome news! I was looking at the street view just to see what the entrance looks like now and it is crazy how much that area has changed. I do not know when the street view was taken but it must of been over 3 years old I guess since The Pinnacle is still under construction.

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Awesome news! I was looking at the street view just to see what the entrance looks like now and it is crazy how much that area has changed. I do not know when the street view was taken but it must of been over 3 years old I guess since The Pinnacle is still under construction.

Look in the lower left and it'll show you the timestamp of the image, April 2009. Murfreesboro hasn't been updated since fall 2007.

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Sorry for my grumpy mood, but I must say it is discouraging that Nashville can't seem to come up with gutsy developers to build a large downtown shopping/entertainment complex that straddles the railroad tracks. Something like that would have a tremendous amount of access from SoBro and Gulch. Its eastern entrance could be at the new roundabout... and its western entrance could be at the dead-end of Pine. Just pipe-dreaming.

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I noticed we haven't discussed much about the Marketstreet-Emery split.  It got lost under the bits thread before we opened these new threads.  Anyways, is it not that a big of a deal (I guessing so since not much has been discussed on here) or should we be a little concerned?  I see where Emery commented that he feels the Gulch is going more retail and residential (duh) and the need for office space is not there right now.  He also said Marketplace can afford to sit a wait.  What's use-guys thoughts?

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2012/11/29/marketstreet-and-pat-emery-part-ways.html

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Sorry for my grumpy mood, but I must say it is discouraging that Nashville can't seem to come up with gutsy developers to build a large downtown shopping/entertainment complex that straddles the railroad tracks. Something like that would have a tremendous amount of access from SoBro and Gulch. Its eastern entrance could be at the new roundabout... and its western entrance could be at the dead-end of Pine. Just pipe-dreaming.

Again, the issue here is CSX.  The city of Nashville will most likely have to use eminent domain if it wants to construct a road (Division Street connector) or a public walking bridge over the tracks.  And that may be doable and provide some benefits.  But no developer in Nashville is going to want to spend the $$ that CSX would demand for private development - such as a downtown mall - that would span the tracks.  Heck, downtown retail is already a hard sell! 

 

I personally don't think that the railroad tracks themselves are that much of a problem for the Gulch.  In fact, they are what makes Cummins Station/Cannery and especially the Gulch what they are.  The pedestrian nature of the sidewalks on 11th has an allure precisely because of this industrial feel.  I also don't think that in its present form the Gulch actually suffers from a slight disconnect from downtown, but probably benefits from it moreso.  I mean, nearly everyone going to the Gulch who doesn't already live there is driving or biking.  As a nightlife destination, that's not going to change unless we have public transit that people want to ride that runs every few minutes at least through 2:00 AM and going to all parts of town.  I don't forsee that happening in my lifetime in Nashville.  Whereas the slight disconnect of the Gulch means that there are fewer entrances and exits, and that is actually a plus from a security standpoint as long as people are smart enough to stay off the tracks at night.

 

I would say that the businesses in the Gulch do currently benefit from downtown workers coming there for lunch on the Green Line, or riding bikes, so I don't see a whole lot changing in that regard even if a new pedestrian bridge is built.  Conventioneers are likely going to take cabs to the Gulch, just like they do in every other city.  But realisitically, other than the MCC, the western end of downtown is dead.  At least right now, there aren't even any hotels announced for that portion of downtown.  And few if any attorneys from the law firms in the Pinnacle or Baker Donelson buildings on the eastern edge of downtown, or the state government workers on the north end, are going to walk over a mile to get to the Gulch for lunch and then back.  That just isn't going to happen.

 

So it seems to me that building a shopping center over the railroad tracks, in particular, would have pretty immense logistical costs that would necessitate very high rents.  And you're not going to put a Saks Fifth Avenue or a Neiman Marcus along a roundabout that has a panoramic view of the Nashville Rescue Mission.

 

But maybe I could see a downtown shopping center built on a land bridge over the interstates.  The Federal Government is probably easier to work with in terms of air rights than CSX.

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But maybe I could see a downtown shopping center built on a land bridge over the interstates.  The Federal Government is probably easier to work with in terms of air rights than CSX.

 

"Is it tall enough to fit an oversized load under? Yeah? Good to go" - Federal Government

"Is it tall enough to fit a auto-carrier under? NO!" But it's 35' above the tracks "NO!" But, can you just  reas "NO" - CSX

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.  Conventioneers are likely going to take cabs to the Gulch, just like they do in every other city

 

On the contrary, I think the great advantage MCC has over every other city whose convention center I've seen, is you walk out the door and hotels, restaurants, bars and music venues are not a cab ride away, just a few steps.  At this moment the development that will follow in SoBro isn't there yet, and we don't know what will follow on the 7.5 acre tract on the roundabout, but it will not be long. When the area is developed this is going to seem like a very short walk for many people.  The issue isn't what it's like now, but in the future.

 

 

 I mean, nearly everyone going to the Gulch who doesn't already live there is driving or biking.

This is an argument for making the Gulch more pedestrian connected, not less.

 

And given the need homeless shelters have for $ they can probably be induced to relocate, although they will need to stay somewhere DT since that's where the homeless people are always going to be. 

 

I think they are wise to plan for a pedestrian bridge connecting the Gulch.  The idea of a shopping center over the tracks when there are so many easier tracts available seems remote, however, at least for many years.

Edited by Neigeville
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"Is it tall enough to fit an oversized load under? Yeah? Good to go" - Federal Government

"Is it tall enough to fit a auto-carrier under? NO!" But it's 35' above the tracks "NO!" But, can you just  reas "NO" - CSX

 

Like I said in the meeting...tell CSX what you plan to do. If they have a problem with it, do it anyways. With Demonbreun, Broad, and Church all crossing the tracks, it's not like they could argue that a bridge of that height would be restrictive to rail traffic. 

 

The only problem I see with the particular site is that the other bridges cross 5-6 tracks (in what is sort of the lead-up to the yard). This would have to cross the yard itself, and a total of 11 tracks. There's a possibility they would want a single span (200') which would prove difficult (though not impossible). There's a little break in the middle, so 100' spans would be more likely, I think.

 

Whatever the case, if they're not willing to work with the city (which is something we're just speculating about right now -- even if it is based on past experience), then they don't deserve any input on the design. Eminent domain that sumbisch.

 

 

As for the idea of some sort of development going over the tracks...now THAT is a bit far-fetched. The only thing that would span the tracks is a bridge. And with the Pine Street Lofts, I don't think there's room for anything else on that side of the tracks.

 

 

As for any sort of large scale retail development...I think the most suitable site would be the current Rescue Mission (and adjacent properties). The lots between Lafayette, 7th, Middleton, and Ewing comprise exactly 8 acres (according to the property assessor's website). That's nearly 350,000 square feet of potential floor space (in the case that a parking garage would be below ground), which would be much more suitable for having multiple anchor stores than most sites around downtown (without having to span multiple blocks). There are not many blocks that large with only 4 separate properties. 

 

The big thing would be finding a new and suitable location for the Rescue Mission, which would be unpopular for a variety of reasons (both moving it and wherever it moves to).

 

 

The Methodist Publishing House location is similar in size (7.5 acres?), and would work as well...though I don't think the lot shape is as ideal, it could be a potential traffic choke point, and I have a feeling that a retail developer would likely raze the Keeble building.

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