Inner Loop - CBD, Downtown, East Bank, Germantown, Gulch, Rutledge

[mirydi]

 

  Yikes...I thought we were just talking about parking!  Are you sure you aren't one of those old ladies protesting the highrise in Green Hills?  haha...kidding. Listen, I'm not offended in the least.  I just think that if you honestly believe that Chicago is just some vast, arctic ghetto where everyone sprints from place to place because they are terrified of being murdered, then I think you're long overdo for a trip to Chi-City my friend!  I'd give you a tour myself!  Every Chicagoan would acknowledge that the city's violent crime rate is a travesty and needs to be confronted, full force.  But...you do realize, don't you, that crime is not spread equally throughout the city?  Unfortunate as violent crime may be, the vast majority of it is generally concentrated within a handful of neighborhoods, and usually gang/drug related, as is the situation in most cities, including Nashville.

 

In regards to the topic at hand, you realize that I actually live in Chicago, right?  And that the vast majority of my friends and acquaintances are also Chicagoans?  This is my neighborhood: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Wicker_Park_Chicago_Damen_North_Milwaukee.JPG (actually, that's a few blocks away...I'm just a moron that doesn't know how to take screen shots on google streetview haha)...That being established, then, I suppose what I don't understand is why you, who's opinions of Chicago are clearly rooted in stereotype and hearsay, is trying to tell me, a Chicagoan, who lives in and works in and plays in and walks around in the city and experiences it every single day and spends the vast majority of his time around other Chicagoans, what it is that Chicagoans "prefer" and "like" and what it is that they find to be unpleasant or why you think that your subjective opinion is the concrete reality for everyone else, because, 'it just is, period.' 

 

Obviously most people value convenience to some degree.  You are correct on that, no doubt.  Certainly, people in Chicago, or most anywhere for that matter, when in search of a parking spot will generally take the parking spot that is closest to their destination.  Perhaps though, just perhaps, some just don't value convenience quite as highly as you.  Perhaps some aren't willing to have the entire fabric of their neighborhoods mutilated by parking lots and parking garages on every corner just so they won't have to walk a few hundred feet.  Perhaps some don't want or expect their city to focus it's entire development strategy around making sure people can get indoors from their cars as quickly as possible, because 'there are murderers out there, and walking sucks.'  Just food for thought.  I'm not saying that Nashville should be exactly like Chicago.  I'm just saying that maybe Nashville could learn a few things from places like it.  Also, just because Chicago living is out of your personal comfort zone, it doesn't mean that the people that live here do so reluctantly or because they have no other options.  Capiche? 

 

That being said...IT'S FREAKIN' COLD HERE TONIGHT!!!    hahaha

Lol! That's funny! I probably deserved that though. I had actually went back to edit that negative part out about Chicago as I realized it was a little uncalled for, but ark had already quoted it. Classless on my part. My apologies.

 

As for the rest of your post, I'll just take your word for it that most people in Chicago prefer to not to be able to park at their house, and it's not because they don't have any other option.

[smeagolsfree]

Here is a color rendering of Luxus from William at the Post.

http://nashvillepost.com/blogs/postbusiness/2013/11/12/the_new_look_luxus_germantown

[BnaBreaker]

Those look really nice.  I wish Nashville would get blocks and blocks of this style of development!  I was thinking the other day after looking at those historic pics that fieldmarshall posted, that why isn't there a company out there dedicated to designing buildings in those old grand styles that we lament losing so much?  Perhaps the financial cost and the time that would have to be devoted to construction is just too great these days?

[BnaBreaker]

Lol! That's funny! I probably deserved that though. I had actually went back to edit that negative part out about Chicago as I realized it was a little uncalled for, but ark had already quoted it. Classless on my part. My apologies.

 

As for the rest of your post, I'll just take your word for it that most people in Chicago prefer to not to be able to park at their house, and it's not because they don't have any other option.

 

No need for apology...I just like to help soften Chicago's, sometimes well earned, rough image whenever I can.  Seriously though, if you ever make it up here any time, let me know if you'd like a personal tour!  The beer is on me!  haha

 

And as for the parking, like I said, it's not that people prefer to park further from their house than not.  Most people are able to park very close to their house because of the street parking restrictions on residential streets, and that's assuming they can't actually park AT their place in the form of a rear garage or space that they have access to via a rear alleyway.  It's just that the cost to the community for what it would take to achieve having dedicated private parking for every home and business is not worth it to most people I know, at least.  They'd rather have the close-knit, walkable neighborhoods with urban fabric in-tact, and if that means they have to walk a little bit, then so be it.  And I think that is the going attitude in a great many cities, not just Chicago. 

 

Actually, there are neighborhoods here that have more than enough parking, and generally speaking, the more parking lots there are the more run down a neighborhood tends to be, because due to the parking, there are more holes punched into the urban fabric, which make it a less desirable place to be. 

Edited November 12, 2013 by BnaBreaker

[mirydi]

No need for apology...I just like to help soften Chicago's, sometimes well earned, rough image whenever I can.  Seriously though, if you ever make it up here any time, let me know if you'd like a personal tour!  The beer is on me!  haha

 

And as for the parking, like I said, it's not that people prefer to park further from their house than not.  Most people are able to park very close to their house because of the street parking restrictions on residential streets, and that's assuming they can't actually park AT their place in the form of a rear garage or space that they have access to via a rear alleyway.  It's just that the cost to the community for what it would take to achieve having dedicated private parking for every home and business is not worth it to most people I know, at least.  They'd rather have the close-knit, walkable neighborhoods with urban fabric in-tact, and if that means they have to walk a little bit, then so be it.  And I think that is the going attitude in a great many cities, not just Chicago. 

 

Actually, there are neighborhoods here that have more than enough parking, and generally speaking, the more parking lots there are the more run down a neighborhood tends to be, because due to the parking, there are more holes punched into the urban fabric, which make it a less desirable place to be. 

I'll definitely let you know if I'm heading up that way anytime soon. I've been there several times actually. My wife grew up in Chicago (the Southside is what she always says) and her father still lives there. He lives close to the Midway airport is all I know. Whenever he picks us up and drops us off at the airport it seem's to be about a 10 minute drive. My wife went to Bogen high school if that rings a bell at all. (not sure if I'm spelling it correctly)

 

Anyway's, her father actually has a garage at his house (a small one) that is in the backyard off of an alley. It's not attached or anything but I know he is always saying that he is glad he has one. He has two cars and several motorcycle's and they all can't fit into the garage so he has to park one of the cars out on the street in front of his house. It's funny because everytime we go somewhere and come back he's alway's cussing about how his neighbors are taking his spots in front of his house lol!

 

I got a bunch of picture's I took from a few years ago, maybe I'll post some up when I get home tonight. I got some good skyline shots from the Willis tower.

 

Here you go...I have tons of pictures but I only picked out a handful of the skyline ones.

 

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz252/mirydi/ChicagoJan242009055_zpsf7b669ed.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz252/mirydi/ChicagoJan242009053_zps80396879.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz252/mirydi/ChicagoJan242009051_zps2d49f58d.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz252/mirydi/ChicagoJan242009050_zpsea86603b.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz252/mirydi/ChicagoJan242009040_zps3a02e120.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz252/mirydi/ChicagoJan242009024_zps52a88c5c.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz252/mirydi/ChicagoJan242009022_zpsa06437ab.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz252/mirydi/ChicagoJan242009018_zps396e9a39.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz252/mirydi/ChicagoJan242009011_zpsd04d167f.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz252/mirydi/ChicagoJan242009004_zpsb2f01d38.jpg

 

Edited November 13, 2013 by mirydi

[smeagolsfree]

Here is the image full size.

 

[mirydi]

^Looks pretty nice to me.

[UTgrad09]

I like to see slightly more differentiation in the brick color from unit to unit, but other than that, no real complaints. I hope the landscaping lives up to the rendering.

[nashvillwill]

As usual, materials will make the difference in this. I agree with UT that various bricks would really make it pop.

[smeagolsfree]

I hope this turns out as nice as fifth and Garfield. I am pretty comfortable with this. Jim Creason has another project in the works for 7th and Monroe to start next year and we will probably see more from him as far as quality projects. I have high praises for the work he is doing on Germantown.

[timmay143]

Those look really nice.  I wish Nashville would get blocks and blocks of this style of development!  I was thinking the other day after looking at those historic pics that fieldmarshall posted, that why isn't there a company out there dedicated to designing buildings in those old grand styles that we lament losing so much?  Perhaps the financial cost and the time that would have to be devoted to construction is just too great these days?

Trust me.  I would if I could.  I would also build reconstructions of bigger buildings lost (Vauxhall, I'm looking at you)!

[RandomHero]

Any word on when they are going to break ground on the new park and amphitheater at the thermal site? When it was originally announced over the summer it said groundbreaking would take place this fall.

[samsonh]

For any development add at least 18 months to the initial groundbreaking date for the real date.

[FromParkAveToTN]

As far as parking, I think Nashville is positioned to not make some of the same mistakes that have been made in cities like Chicago and Atlanta. Nashville is growing at the right time and can learn from other cities and not make some of the same mistakes.

[nashvillwill]

As far as parking, I think Nashville is positioned to not make some of the same mistakes that have been made in cities like Chicago and Atlanta. Nashville is growing at the right time and can learn from other cities and not make some of the same mistakes.

What mistakes do you speak of? I'm asking because I'm not sure of any particular examples that we can learn from, but I'm sure they are out there.

Chicago, and similar older cities, were cities before the automobile. Much of that situation is an adaptation. Atlanta on the other hand, came of age with the car. I'm sure we can learn a lot from that town.

Perhaps if you can point out some of these mistakes, we can discuss.

[nashvillwill]

As far as mistakes that Nashville has made, I think we can all agree on one example. The two mid rise office buildings of the state (by the bicentennial mall entrance) that were built without parking was a mistake.

The zoning laws (at the time), that required the West End midrise (with the bookstore, across from centennial park) to have street front parking, was a mistake.

[timmay143]

Sneak peak of meeting tonight at 5 for pedestrian bridge?  From News 2's Chris Bundgaard Twitter account.

 

 

 

 

 

[Neigeville]

What mistakes do you speak of? I'm asking because I'm not sure of any particular examples that we can learn from, but I'm sure they are out there.

Chicago, and similar older cities, were cities before the automobile. Much of that situation is an adaptation. Atlanta on the other hand, came of age with the car. I'm sure we can learn a lot from that town.

Perhaps if you can point out some of these mistakes, we can discuss.

 

A Chicago mistake I'm aware of:  there is a large amount of recent high rise housing in downtown Chicago but what I've seen are essentially vertical suburbs:  the buildings are set back a bit from the street, no retail or restaurant space on the ground and nothing adjacent in terms of food/drink/entertainment. 

 

I visited someone in one of these buildings and when it was time for the Indian buffet a few blocks up the street we took the elevator to the parking and drove the few hundred yards to the restaurant.  The ground floor of this building is an aquarium housing a bored security/concierge person.  There's nothing keeping you from walking except that psychological effect of empty streets, laziness, and habit, all forces stronger than reason.

 

That was north and a ways from the lake, but once when I passed thru Chicago recently I had time to kill and strolled around the near south near the lake and found the same thing.  They must have to walk a half mile for a cup of coffee.

 

I think Nashville's complex building requirements already avoid most or all of this, we seem to do high rise housing pretty well although we have yet to develop a system of corner shops which Germantown and the Gulch obviously need.

 

Another mistake Chicago has made in my opinion is putting trains in highway rights of way.  The platform is already a 10 minute walk to/from the nearest possible destination.  Obviously it's cheaper, but it reduces the usefulness.  I've often heard this system admired by drivers who don't use public transportation.  (I like elevated trains personally, I like the way they look although I guess that would be a hard sell in Green Hills where they would mar the view of the strip malls.)  Even if we end up with nothing but BRT lite on West End, Charlotte, Nolensville, etc. it would be way better than a train running up the interstate.

 

The old neighborhoods in Chicago are great with their three-flats and courtyard apartments, sidewalks, shopping within a few blocks of housing, etc.  But much of suburban Chicago, even the most recent, is remarkably high density but still car dependent.

[nashvillwill]

Those are good examples of bad urban design and excellent points. But, specific to parking, how do they play into a "learning experience" for Nashville (other than the given; don't strictly zone areas for one type of use).

[bigeasy]

Hard to tell from the rendering, but will there just be stairs on the Gulch side?

[MLBrumby]

I don't know why there isn't a ramp on the Gulch side (there is an elevator) if it's dubbed a "bicycle" bridge.  Maybe they are determined to keep bikes from going across it at regular speed because the rendering makes it look very narrow.  That said, the design looks so derivative of Calatrava's work.  Nothing cutting-edge.

[CandyAisles]

Elevator noted on the plans.

[MLBrumby]

I think that Nashville did not even allow people to work in a building that had apartments until about a decade ago... such antiquated and hidebound thinking by city leaders. 

[nashvillwill]

No one will ever bike across that with stairs at the end. 100% easier to use Demonbreun.

[mirydi]

In this picture it shows two masts

 

 

This picture it only shows one

 

 

 

The original renders show two

 

 

I don't know if the picture showing just one mast is a mistake or something, but I really hope they go with two masts. I think it would look much more impressive. (imo)