Amazon HQ2

[Wahoo 07]

17 minutes ago, meegwell said:

I am a NJ native - grew up 10 minutes from downtown Newark - and I must say that this falls under the "some things just can't be bought" category.    It smells like a classic northern NJ "deal":

 

 

Couple immediate things stand out: 

a.) that is a flat-out lie about 18 minutes to NYC.  Yeah, if you are using a Jetsons-style hover craft maybe.  It takes 20 minutes to get through the Lincoln tunnel on a good day during work or entertainment hours.   That's a 40 minute trip MINIMUM during any normal traffic time of day.

b.) "after Amazon creates its promised 50,000 jobs" - when did Amazon promise this?  I read the RFP...didn't get that.  Does NJ think Amazon is going to take kindly to this type of holding-incentives-hostage criteria?

c.)  $1billion waiving the local wage tax...I don't know but I bet there is some stipulation that these folks must live in Newark and even if not that number is likely tied to 50k jobs threshold...

d.) Anyone drive around Newark over the past...um, forever?  Congestion is abysmal.

e.) "Much less expensive".....than one of the most expensive Cities in America?  WTF is that saying? Like bragging about your dog being the biggest tea-cup chihuahua.

....any thoughts?

 

 

 

 

I am not too worried about Newark.  If Amazon was going to make a greater New York move, Brooklyn or Queens would be the places to beat.  Many eastern metros surpass Newark in their offerings (especially DMV and Atlanta) without the issues associated with Newark.

This is pure speculation, but I think that Amazon is looking to be the biggest show in town, not another major player in an ocean of major players.

[meegwell]

22 minutes ago, Wahoo 07 said:

This is pure speculation, but I think that Amazon is looking to be the biggest show in town, not another major player in an ocean of major players

Me too.  And looking for a place that, on the scale of Chill < to > Up Tight....would be much closer to Chill....:)

 

[Wahoo 07]

3 minutes ago, meegwell said:

Me too.  And looking for a place that, on the scale of Chill < to > Up Tight....would be much closer to Chill....:)

 

Agreed.  Given the tech related developments in town recently, if Amazon chooses Richmond, we may have to re-brand the region the Silicon South!

[changingskyline]

I'm as much of a booster for Richmond growth as anyone else on this forum. But I think we should all be deeply concerned by the fascist way corporations are taking over this country. We never have any money in this country for schools, roads, and cultural offerings, but we sure have money for useless wars and endless corporate welfare. This is not "the free market" or democracy. It's an assault on "the commons"- those assets that should belong to all of us: https://www.truthdig.com/articles/definition-obscenity-huge-money-benefits-government-hands-amazon/

Additional articles: https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/02/15/amazon-has-some-serious-anti-trust-issues/

[Shakman]

If it's that simple, then I should start a virtual company just for the incentives and tax write offs.  

 

 

[Wahoo 07]

33 minutes ago, changingskyline said:

I'm as much of a booster for Richmond growth as anyone else on this forum. But I think we should all be deeply concerned by the fascist way corporations are taking over this country. We never have any money in this country for schools, roads, and cultural offerings, but we sure have money for useless wars and endless corporate welfare. This is not "the free market" or democracy. It's an assault on "the commons"- those assets that should belong to all of us: https://www.truthdig.com/articles/definition-obscenity-huge-money-benefits-government-hands-amazon/

Additional articles: https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/02/15/amazon-has-some-serious-anti-trust-issues/

Whether left, right, etc., please keep the politics off of this board.  One aspect of this community is that it is generally an overwhelming positive place full of insightful people who care about Richmond.  It is a sanctuary from the divisions that politics can cause.  Thanks

[The ATX]

9 minutes ago, Wahoo 07 said:

Whether left, right, etc., please keep the politics off of this board.  One aspect of this community is that it is generally an overwhelming positive place full of insightful people who care about Richmond.  It is a sanctuary from the divisions that politics can cause.  Thanks

[Brent114]

It certainly seems appropriate to me to discuss incentives and giveaways used as leverage for attracting Amazon in a thread about Amazon. 

Even without any contributions from local coffers, the people that populate a metro area have an interest in the political and social ideology of a company that will change (for generations) the social and economic health  of a city. 

Development doesn’t happen in a void and tax invectives don’t come without major risks to the community.  Ultimately Amazon’s choice  will be 100% political.  It’s charming to believe otherwise  but it isn’t realistic. 

[Icetera]

1 hour ago, Brent114 said:

It certainly seems appropriate to me to discuss incentives and giveaways used as leverage for attracting Amazon in a thread about Amazon. 

Even without any contributions from local coffers, the people that populate a metro area have an interest in the political and social ideology of a company that will change (for generations) the social and economic health  of a city. 

Development doesn’t happen in a void and tax invectives don’t come without major risks to the community.  Ultimately Amazon’s choice  will be 100% political.  It’s charming to believe otherwise  but it isn’t realistic. 

I believe that is certainly appropriate, just as long as we avoid the overcharged political commentary and stick to the specific relevance.  It is concerning that many communities are trying to throw large sums of money at projects like these to a point where locations with great potential, such as Richmond, can completely lose out.  However, if those communities are confident on receiving more tax revenue than spent, through direct and indirect economic improvements, then it could be argued that they are investments for the community but those are discussions for those communities. 

[tparkerzut]

Keeping this as neutral as possible.

I do find the extreme offers that cities are giving Amazon to be absurd. A lot of places are taking a HUGE risk at the expense of their tax payers and if they do succeed the city will probably experience a large amount of inflation again hurting its current population. There is absolutely no guarantee that bringing Amazon to your city will make up for billions of dollars of tax cuts.

I also think that the position large corporate companies are cities in these days are inappropriate. Becoming one of the most successful companies in the world shouldn't meant that you start asking local governments for more advantages. It means that you now have the money and position to move wherever you want without having to take incentives. Of course this belief is probably why I'm not Jeff Bezos haha.

With that said this happens with more than just Amazon. The Diamond in our own city is a perfect example of these issues. A private company has wanted the tax payers of Richmond to build them a new stadium for no other reason that they think they deserve it. They some how believe that they are so ingrained in the city's culture and economy it should be our burden to provide for them. I think this type of thinking is concerning and seems to only be growing in this country. 

However... I absolutely believe in a city's and Richmond's effort to try and lure companies to their area. That's how cities grow and gain more tax base. Temporary real estate tax abatement is a great incentive and other small tax credits as well. I also like that Richmond tries to focus on what our population can offer a company which is very important. A company should be looking at what an area offers them more than just straight money.

Over the past few weeks I've definitely confirmed my opinion that I do not want Amazon in this city. I do not think it's a great investment, I don't think that it would have an amazing effect on our current population and I just personally don't like the tactics and behaviors Amazon has shown to get out of paying for so many taxes.

[changingskyline]

Jeff Bezos' net worth just exceeded 100 billion dollars. That's more than the annual GDP of most countries. Tell me why he should be given any tax break.

It's not my intention to filibuster this thread and this will be my last post on this topic. But I think it behooves everyone to really give these unpleasant issues some thought because the future of the country depends on it. The world seems to be at a critical moment right now as old, established ideas and assumptions are disintegrating. The current system is not sustainable. What kind of new order will emerge? These are not liberal or conservative issues. A true conservative believes in the rule of law, fair play for everyone (no monopolies), and the triumph of hard work and ingenuity rather than public bailouts. These are inconvenient truths that must be honestly debated and not swept under the rug. 

[wrldcoupe4]

While I agree the incentives are excessive, Amazon hasn’t forced anyone to provide them. These locations have chosen to do so. What if no location offered incentives ?

[meegwell]

On 12/1/2017 at 1:04 PM, changingskyline said:

Jeff Bezos' net worth just exceeded 100 billion dollars. That's more than the annual GDP of most countries. Tell me why he should be given any tax break.

It's not my intention to filibuster this thread and this will be my last post on this topic. But I think it behooves everyone to really give these unpleasant issues some thought because the future of the country depends on it. The world seems to be at a critical moment right now as old, established ideas and assumptions are disintegrating. The current system is not sustainable. What kind of new order will emerge? These are not liberal or conservative issues. A true conservative believes in the rule of law, fair play for everyone (no monopolies), and the triumph of hard work and ingenuity rather than public bailouts. These are inconvenient truths that must be honestly debated and not swept under the rug. 

 

 

I'm sorry but this is Facebook material.  I will not address it again but an employees net worth should in no way be related to that Company's business negotiations.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

[Brent114]

Not even when the employees work full time but are still dependent on government services to make (meager) ends meet?  Is that corporation worthy of a tax incentive to set up shop in Richmond [taking money from the employee (reduced services) to give it to the investors]? 

We’ve demanded more of corporations in the past and it created the middle class.  We can do it again. 

[wrldcoupe4]

The average salary for the HQ is $100k.  A lot of cities think this concentration of high paying jobs will elevate their communities. Their efforts are well intentioned even if we are suspicious of whether this is the right way to invest tax dollars. Even still, no community is required to provide incentives. What if none of them did? Amazon would still pick a new location based on a variety of factors, just not that one. 

My prediction - they will not choose the location that offers them the most incentives. There so so many factors that go into site location - talent, taxes, cost of living, transportation, etc etc. 

[cwd221]

Amazon released their last 20 cities that they are focusing on. Think we all knew that Richmond had an outside shot of landing the second Amazon HQ, but we are officially out of the running. Northern Va and DC are both on the last 20 list. 

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20180118005771/en/Amazon-Announces-Candidates-HQ2

[Wahoo 07]

9 minutes ago, cwd221 said:

Amazon released their last 20 cities that they are focusing on. Think we all knew that Richmond had an outside shot of landing the second Amazon HQ, but we are officially out of the running. Northern Va and DC are both on the last 20 list. 

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20180118005771/en/Amazon-Announces-Candidates-HQ2

Not terribly surprised -- would have been nice though.  I am pulling for NOVA now.

[drayrichmond]

I'm actually somewhat happy we aren't getting it;

but I'm very happy NOVA and DC are still in the running! I'm really hoping they land in NOVA or DC, even Montgomery County MD is in the running; if they do then we'll likely see more transplants coming down to RVA for cheaper rents (e.g. CoStar), which I think would be a better, more stable platform for growth.

[RiverYuppy]

I would have loved if they came here.  They would be a good company to work for.  

Now I'm rooting for NoVA because of the hopeful overflow of transplants.  

[eandslee]

I, too, am not surprised Richmond is not on the list, but I was afraid to see Raleigh on the list.  I really don't like the NC cities and I don't want Raleigh to land this HUGE deal.  Right now, I sort of see Richmond and Raleigh being somewhat of similar cities and landing this would project them into a whole new sphere.  To me (in my head), it's an economic competition between Richmond and Raleigh and right now Raleigh is winning.  Richmond needs to get on it!  Call me crazy.

[Marcus Squires]

Even if Raleigh gets it, it would still be a long term benefit to Richmond because of the possible High Speed Train to D.C. 

[eandslee]

6 minutes ago, Marcus Squires said:

Even if Raleigh gets it, it would still be a long term benefit to Richmond because of the possible High Speed Train to D.C. 

Maybe with that one aspect, but even that is not a guarantee.  I’d much rather see it in NOVA as I think Richmond would benefit from it being there even more.  That’s who I’m pulling for at this point. 

[Marcus Squires]

I agree with you, just looking at a sliver lining. 

[Brent114]

It’s looking pretty good for Washington.  3 of the 20 locations are there.  They must want to be in that metro pretty badly. 

[tparkerzut]

I am happy that we aren't on the list and happy that NOVA and DC still are. I think those are appropriate places for this kind of facility and am very curious what kind of affect it will have on Richmond. Hopefully positive.