Amazon: The Thread | 5,000 Jobs | 1M SQFT in Nashville Yards

[Hey_Hey]

On 2/19/2019 at 3:15 PM, titanhog said:

I haven't seen any numbers...but other than maybe Vegas and Orlando, do we have more hotels than any city our size?

I actually calculated this by just searching around on various cities' CVB websites and by going to some hotel industry websites.  Currently, Nashville has somewhere around 44,000 hotel rooms in the MSA. 

At the end of 2016 New Orleans had 38-39,000 hotel rooms (with and additional ~6000 hotel rooms in the pipeline) https://www.hvs.com/article/7832-in-focus-new-orleans-la

In 2017 the Charlotte market had 23,184 rooms, but there were ~50 new hotels project in the pipeline. https://www.hvs.com/article/8092-hvs-market-pulse-charlotte-nc

Visitjacksonville.com reports 18,000 hotel rooms throughout the city, beach areas, and suburban areas.

Denver had 44,437 hotel rooms in September of 2017 with and additional 5800 in the pipeline, so I would assume most of those have been delivered which puts Denver at just over 50,000 hotel rooms at this point. https://www.hfflp.com/blog/2017/september/denver-s-mile-highhotelsupplyisjustintime.html

I also found:

Cleveland had 22,000 hotel rooms in 2011

Columbus had 26,000 rooms in 2013

Indianapolis had 33,000 in 2016

Louisville had 19,000 hotel room at the end of 2017 with 1000 more under construction

Austin's CVB reports on their website that there are 39,700+ hotel rooms

 

Clearly, Nashville punches way above its population weight for the number of hotel rooms it supports.  I would also add that the hotels in Nashville are not cheap. I would think that there's a fairly consistent business demand across cities based on metro GDP, so I suspect most of Nashville's additional demand is related to tourism/leisure travel. In other words, New Orleans and Nashville don't have all of these extra rooms when compared to Charlotte or Columbus because of a different business climate.  Instead,I suspect that the additional rooms are related to tourism. 

 

Edited February 21, 2019 by Hey_Hey

[Mr_Bond]

Awesome info, @Hey_Hey!  Thanks much.

[KJHburg]

5 hours ago, Hey_Hey said:

 

Clearly, Nashville punches way above its population weight for the number of hotel rooms it supports.  I would also add that the hotels in Nashville are not cheap. I would think that there's a fairly consistent business demand across cities based on metro GDP, so I suspect most of Nashville's additional demand is related to tourism/leisure travel. In other words, New Orleans and Nashville don't have all of these extra rooms when compared to Charlotte or Columbus because of a different business climate.  Instead,I suspect that the additional rooms are related to tourism. 

 

Nashville does have many more rooms and I do think it is tourism driven which includes meetings and conventions.  From the first time my niece went to Belmont several years back I have had to float around all over town to find a good rate from the airport area, to north of the river to Franklin last time.  I hope you build another 20K rooms so the prices will moderate! 

That being said Charlotte is adding rooms uptown and all around but especially in the suburbs. But our growth is based mainly on business travelers.   As I have stated I have never seen a hotel boom like what I saw in Nashville last time not even in much bigger cities. San Antonio is probably the most like Nashville large convention and tourism spot with huge hotels.  Our largest hotel much to the chagrin of those locally is 700 rooms your largest hotel the Opryland is 2888 rooms! 

[PruneTracy]

5 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Our largest hotel much to the chagrin of those locally is 700 rooms your largest hotel the Opryland is 2888 rooms! 

Fun fact, Opryland is something like the 30th largest hotel in the world by number of rooms.

[jmtunafish]

1 hour ago, PruneTracy said:

Fun fact, Opryland is something like the 30th largest hotel in the world by number of rooms.

And isn't it also the largest hotel in America that's not attached to a casino?

[donNdonelson2]

3 hours ago, jmtunafish said:

And isn't it also the largest hotel in America that's not attached to a casino?

Yes, according to USA Today

https://traveltips.usatoday.com/history-opryland-hotel-53488.html

[KJHburg]

the location of the other half of HQ2 will be..... probably Bellevue Washington the suburb edge city of Seattle.  Outside of the additional taxes in Seattle this over the lake suburb city will probably get the majority of jobs.  However I think the Northern VA and Nashville locations will go more than projected too.  I still think they should open up more offices across the country to tap into different labor pools.  Bellevue of course is pricey as Seattle and northern VA is not cheap either.  Only Nashville in affordable in these expansion cities.  

""Amazon’s next big outpost could come to a city that wasn’t even among the finalists for the nationwide HQ2 search last year.  Bellevue, Washington, the birthplace of the 24-year-old behemoth, has garnered the kind of interest from Amazon many cities crave. The Seattle-based company is expected to take at least 3.9 million square feet of space in the city east of Lake Washington. That projected real estate footprint in Bellevue is enough to rival Amazon’s planned HQ2 presence near Washington, D.C.  The total 3.9-million-square-foot estimate accounts only for existing square footage in Bellevue Corporate Plaza. Using the rough industry standard of 150 square feet per employee, Amazon’s forecasted presence in Bellevue if all these projects are realized would be 25,826 employees.""

from a subscriber article in the Triangle Business Journal

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2019/02/22/hq-too-amazon-has-been-quietly-building-out-room.html?ana=e_du_prem&s=article_du&ed=2019-02-22&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1550944024&j=86843101

 

 

[Guest]

Another good opinion piece on the NY City bugout... 

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-to-liberate-amazon-workers-11550706086?fbclid=IwAR23PvFqMVL_cXcTOSqK9mgDEVEoJ7Cn6TxGuHIOSubuCpEyBMQDy3xqNDQ&ns=prod/accounts-wsj

[titanhog]

3 hours ago, KJHburg said:

the location of the other half of HQ2 will be..... probably Bellevue Washington the suburb edge city of Seattle.  Outside of the additional taxes in Seattle this over the lake suburb city will probably get the majority of jobs.  However I think the Northern VA and Nashville locations will go more than projected too.  I still think they should open up more offices across the country to tap into different labor pools.  Bellevue of course is pricey as Seattle and northern VA is not cheap either.  Only Nashville in affordable in these expansion cities.  

""Amazon’s next big outpost could come to a city that wasn’t even among the finalists for the nationwide HQ2 search last year.  Bellevue, Washington, the birthplace of the 24-year-old behemoth, has garnered the kind of interest from Amazon many cities crave. The Seattle-based company is expected to take at least 3.9 million square feet of space in the city east of Lake Washington. That projected real estate footprint in Bellevue is enough to rival Amazon’s planned HQ2 presence near Washington, D.C.  The total 3.9-million-square-foot estimate accounts only for existing square footage in Bellevue Corporate Plaza. Using the rough industry standard of 150 square feet per employee, Amazon’s forecasted presence in Bellevue if all these projects are realized would be 25,826 employees.""

from a subscriber article in the Triangle Business Journal

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2019/02/22/hq-too-amazon-has-been-quietly-building-out-room.html?ana=e_du_prem&s=article_du&ed=2019-02-22&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1550944024&j=86843101

 

 

An article I read the other day insinuated that instead of Bellevue being "in addition to" Seattle...it was likely that many of Seattle's Amazon positions were being transitioned over to Bellevue (because of a better tax situation and more "acceptance" from the local government.)  Not sure if that's correct...but that was the way the article I read the other day made it sound.  If I can remember what article I read...I'll be sure to share it.

[FluffyP13]

and after all that. the extensive year + "audition" for the HQ2, its going back to the city its already headquartered, essentially lol 

[henburg]

I don't know if scaring Amazon away completely was the best course for New Yorkers to take, but I found these two articles that I think do a good job of providing a perspective on the frustrations of these people- 

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-long-island-city-lessons-163016646.html

This first article does a good job of criticizing the overly dramatic way that Amazon has conducted themselves in the search for HQ2. The pageantry of it all was really ridiculous and understandably rubbed many people the wrong way.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazon-taxes-zero-180337770.html?fbclid=IwAR1nDOK6Ie6lzEatn2P6Fam3K10m6-AyS5ss4vRQVP25JUOVXFj6h0LS7qc

This second article highlights my frustrations with what the free market has become in the pursuit to entice business growth.

 

I think that Amazon can learn from some of the mistakes it made throughout this process and become a good part of our community, but it will require effort on their part. 

Edited February 24, 2019 by henburg

[Mr_Bond]

Here's an open letter from the NY State Budget Director.

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/open-letter-new-york-state-budget-director-robert-mujica-regarding-amazon

[titanhog]

2 hours ago, Mr_Bond said:

Here's an open letter from the NY State Budget Director.

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/open-letter-new-york-state-budget-director-robert-mujica-regarding-amazon

I think it's a lesson for all of us in this nation.  At the core, most of us want good jobs...good pay...good living conditions for everyone...etc.  However...there are many, many different views on how to get there.  In the end, it would seem it's best to actually sit down and talk things through face to face and hash out differences and make sure everyone comes away with a piece of the pie...and that everyone wins, in some way.  Where we are now is just people screaming back and forth...using social media to fight their "cause"...and the truth is getting lost in the minutia.  

Amazon in NY could have easily been saved if not for the greed and misunderstandings on both sides...and Amazon is just big enough with so many options that they are willing to walk away if they sense it's going to be a messy marriage.  

Crazy times we live in, in a sense.

Edited February 24, 2019 by titanhog

[KJHburg]

Now some and I would say a minority of people are trying to stir up anti Amazon feelings in northern VA.  Having lived in this area and despite some wacky state politics this movement will not get the NYC result.  Not in Arlington County VA

http://gothamist.com/2019/02/22/virginia_amazon_new_york_organizers.php

I do believe Amazon brought some of this on themselves with their nationwide circus for their 50,000 job HQ2 and I think most companies will continue to work behind the scenes and not have this kind of nationwide beauty contest again.    I saw a full page ad in the Wall St Journal about a greenfield site in Florida between Tampa and Orlando.  Someone bought a full page ad crazy! 

Edited February 25, 2019 by KJHburg

[PaulChinetti]

https://ritholtz.com/2019/02/hq2-understanding-what-happened-why/

Super deep dive on the Amazon NYC HQ.

[nashvylle]

From NBJ:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2019/02/28/how-the-delay-in-alliancebernsteins-metro.html?iana=hpmvp_nsh_news_headline

AllianceBernstein's incentive package won't just gauge Metro Council's appetite for using taxpayer dollars to recruit companies: It also has the potential to restructure how the city finances those deals.

At-large Councilman John Cooper is pushing an amendment that would finance the deal using money from the Convention Center Authority, not the city's general funds. If approved, Cooper hopes the change will serve as a precedent for future incentive deals, including Metro's proposed $17.5 million deal for Amazon. (To view his amendment, click here.)

Cooper's argument is that AllianceBernstein's permanent office, located inside the massive Fifth + Broadway development, falls within the city's tourism development zone, which diverts sales-tax revenue within a large swath of the urban core from the city's general fund to support the convention center. Nashville Yards, Amazon's future home, also falls within the district.

"If you have an overage on your checking account — which the city does, since we’re doing one-time property sales to fix our budget — then you should in effect be using your savings account or at least another account," Cooper told the Nashville Business Journal. "We really need to protect the general fund because ultimately that’s what is paying for universal services. The uptick in revenue driven by these projects goes to the [convention center], not the general fund. Having Music City Center finance projects that would increase their own revenue would seem appropriate."

 

Cooper's amendment is what prompted Metro Council to delay its vote on AllianceBernstein's incentive package earlier this month; however, his amendment is far from finalized, with city attorneys still debating its legality. Furthermore, the funding swap has a prominent opponent: Mayor David Briley.

"AB's economic incentive package should be adopted without this amendment," Thomas Mulgrew, the mayor's spokesman, said in a statement to the NBJ. "However, Mayor Briley has been engaged in conversations with the Convention Center Authority regarding the use of revenue generated in the tourism development zone in future budgets."

If approved, AllianceBernstein's package would give the money manager $500 per job for seven years, which is the city's standard jobs package. It could be worth as much as $3.7 million over seven years. State officials are also kicking in incentives for AllianceBernstein; however, the total value of those incentives is unknown.

The incentive deal — which you can read here — comes 10 months after AllianceBernstein announced plans to move its headquarters to Nashville, bringing with it 1,050 jobs and the company's C-suite. Fully staffed, the company would rank among downtown's five largest private employers.

This is the first Metro jobs grant that the council will vote on after passing legislation that requires companies to disclose more information about the jobs they're creating. The vote also comes after months of public pushback to how state and local officials use taxpayer dollars to incentivize companies, particularly in the wake of Amazon's decision to bring 5,000 jobs to Nashville.

 

Edited February 28, 2019 by nashvylle

[archilove]

On 2/26/2019 at 11:07 AM, PaulChinetti said:

https://ritholtz.com/2019/02/hq2-understanding-what-happened-why/

Super deep dive on the Amazon NYC HQ.

No matter how much a community gives to attract a business, if it ends up getting more than it gave, it has gained from the deal. I don't hate successful corporations or individuals. They create jobs and make everyone better off.

[nashvylle]

Amazon is committed to Nashville. Anyone know when the council vote will be? I do pray that not all of the tax revenue generated from Amazon, Alliance Bernstein, etc. goes to just the Music City Center...

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/tech/2019/03/04/amazon-nashville-commitment-new-york-city-rejection/3028733002/

[smeagolsfree]

No, Bret was at the meet Saturday and helped explain a lot of this. The ammendment Cooper is proposing is probably not legal according to Metro legal.

[nashvylle]

11 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

No, Bret was at the meet Saturday and helped explain a lot of this. The ammendment Cooper is proposing is probably not legal according to Metro legal.

Thanks. was it determined when the council will vote on Amazon, A&B?

Edited March 4, 2019 by nashvylle

[smeagolsfree]

Not sure, but that was probably the question and why it was deferred.

 

[nashvylle]

let's see if this resolution is passed tonight. If it does, it has serious implications for Amazon, A&B, EY, etc.

[smeagolsfree]

I smell a tax increase coming.

[DDIG]

17 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

let's see if this resolution is passed tonight. If it does, it has serious implications for Amazon, A&B, EY, etc.

I think this is non-binding, so pointless. Our council is trying a lot of brain dead stuff. There is another bill that is trying to ban the city giving incentives if the state does. I mean talk about killing our ability to not only compete with other U.S. cities, but compete within our own state. 

[nashvylle]

so if it "passes" tonight, and is non-binding, what is the point of a nonbinding resolution?