Amazon: The Thread | 5,000 Jobs | 1M SQFT in Nashville Yards

[shanky]

I will start this  by stating that I am excited about the Amazon announcement, but from a socio/economic perspective there will eventually be pushback from the have-nots.  Anyone who follows this site is aware of how this plays out.  Those who favor growth and urbanization are at odds with those who prefer something that is completely at odds with that.  You want to build transit - that's a non-starter; you want to decriminalize weed - not on our watch; you want to build a soccer stadium on the site of our beloved flea market - nope, that's a sport popular somewhere else; why would we do that!  

As we all know these attitudes exist in Davidson County - even though they may be a minority there is a sentiment for small-town Nashville.   Those who live in rural Tennessee will react by electing politicians at the state level who are nuttier than the crop we currently have.  Whether you agree with it or not, the state has quite the history of getting in the way of metropolitan areas pursuing agendas that are contrary to their values.   The majority of rural folk in this state could care less about urban development and are actually repelled by it. There are lots of benefits to be had from this announcement even for rural middle Tennessee, but there will be lots of resentment as well.  It will be interesting to see how it all plays out in the next 10-20 years.

[Pdt2f]

9 minutes ago, shanky said:

I will start this  by stating that I am excited about the Amazon announcement, but from a socio/economic perspective there will eventually be pushback from the have-nots.  Anyone who follows this site is aware of how this plays out.  Those who favor growth and urbanization are at odds with those who prefer something that is completely at odds with that.  You want to build transit - that's a non-starter; you want to decriminalize weed - not on our watch; you want to build a soccer stadium on the site of our beloved flea market - nope, that's a sport popular somewhere else; why would we do that!  

As we all know these attitudes exist in Davidson County - even though they may be a minority there is a sentiment for small-town Nashville.   Those who live in rural Tennessee will react by electing politicians at the state level who are nuttier than the crop we currently have.  Whether you agree with it or not, the state has quite the history of getting in the way of metropolitan areas pursuing agendas that are contrary to their values.   The majority of rural folk in this state could care less about urban development and are actually repelled by it. There are lots of benefits to be had from this announcement even for rural middle Tennessee, but there will be lots of resentment as well.  It will be interesting to see how it all plays out in the next 10-20 years.

They also are repelled by condescending, triumphalist, and elitist attitudes from city dwellers. And keep in mind, transit was not voted down by rural counties and their politicians, it was trounced by working class Nashville voters who didn’t want to be priced out for something they didn’t want/need. 

[titanhog]

^^Part of the issue is that you have many people who live rural lives and despise people who live urban lifestyles...and there are urbanists who mock and belittle those who live a rural lifestyle.  Then there are those who like a little of both and don't begrudge anyone living their life exactly however they choose and see benefits in both styles.  We need more like that latter.

[shanky]

2 minutes ago, Pdt2f said:

They also are repelled by condescending, triumphalist, and elitist attitudes from city dwellers. And keep in mind, transit was not voted down by rural counties and their politicians, it was trounced by working class Nashville voters who didn’t want to be priced out for something they didn’t want/need. 

That's not quite accurate.  Correct me if I'm mistaken, but after Davidson County voted it down, the state passed a law that basically said you would need our blessing to build mass transit.  So, If DC voters have a change of heart and it would come back up at some point in the future, the state would have essentially the ability to say no.

[Pdt2f]

1 minute ago, shanky said:

That's not quite accurate.  Correct me if I'm mistaken, but after Davidson County voted it down, the state passed a law that basically said you would need our blessing to build mass transit.  So, If DC voters have a change of heart and it would come back up at some point in the future, the state would have essentially the ability to say no.

It’s entirely accurate. Davidson county voters did, in fact, soundly reject the transit plan by ca. 30 points. Anything after the fact is besides the point. 

I did not hear anything about that law, but there were always laws on the books about modifying state routes in urban areas, which would have affected transit. 

[KJHburg]

Amazon is welcome in northern Virginia but not in NYC.  And I read somewhere per job versus incentives offered Tennessee was the best return for the taxpayers i.e. less incentives per job created

https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2018/11/14/virginia-is-welcoming-amazon-with-open-arms-new.html?ana=e_ae_set2&s=article_du&ed=2018-11-14&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1542229201&j=85027881

 

[Pdt2f]

7 hours ago, titanhog said:

I don't see it as anti-globalist as much as anti-corporations.  Look at how so many people in Queens are mad that Amazon is coming in there and getting tax breaks.  People there are not typically seen as anti-globalists.  And btw...I'm not just picking out liberals in NYC.  There are liberals AND conservatives that hate giving a company like Amazon a tax break...for sometimes the same reasons...and sometimes different reasons.  But...I believe both sides can be shortsighted at times.

Well there’s a difference between anti-globalist and anti-, say, immigration or multiculturalism. Anti-globalism as far as I understand the common definition is basically being against offshoring production and the financial security that comes with it in exchange for cheap consumer goods. So high-paying manufacturing jobs + financial security brought by high labor value added to active and responsible union activities + $750 for a tv > $8.50/hr seasonal work at Walmart and $450 for a tv. 

[samsonh]

1 hour ago, Pdt2f said:

Well there’s a difference between anti-globalist and anti-, say, immigration or multiculturalism. Anti-globalism as far as I understand the common definition is basically being against offshoring production and the financial security that comes with it in exchange for cheap consumer goods. So high-paying manufacturing jobs + financial security brought by high labor value added to active and responsible union activities + $750 for a tv > $8.50/hr seasonal work at Walmart and $450 for a tv. 

Sure there’s a difference. But 35% of our country tends to be all 3: anti globalist(because they cannot compete), anti immigration(because they can’t compete and are scared of different skin tones), and anti multicultural because it challenges their currently held beliefs, among other reasons. Globalist also has been brandished with a certain connotation to it that is quite unpleasant.

[titanhog]

3 minutes ago, samsonh said:

Sure there’s a difference. But 35% of our country tends to be all 3: anti globalist(because they cannot compete), anti immigration(because they can’t compete and are scared of different skin tones), and anti multicultural because it challenges their currently held beliefs, among other reasons. Globalist also has been brandished with a certain connotation to it that is quite unpleasant.

Actually...that's just how one certain 35% of our country tends to "brand" that other 35%...when the reality couldn't be further from the truth.  It's a lie...political propaganda...and it continues to divide our nation, that this type of bigotry is continually spread as truth.  

[Pdt2f]

20 minutes ago, samsonh said:

Sure there’s a difference. But 35% of our country tends to be all 3: anti globalist(because they cannot compete), anti immigration(because they can’t compete and are scared of different skin tones), and anti multicultural because it challenges their currently held beliefs, among other reasons. Globalist also has been brandished with a certain connotation to it that is quite unpleasant.

I think that’s kind of unfair to make that characterization. People have legitimate reasons to be opposed to economic globalization, immigration, and multiculturalism that aren’t just an inability to compete and fear. And an inability to compete doesn’t necessarily make their qualms invalid, anyway. If having the genetics/upbringing/God-given talent to compete for elite jobs on a global scale is what it takes to make your opinions legitimate in this country then there was really no reason to overthrow the old aristocracies, if we were just going to replace them with a meritocratic elite.  Not everyone can be a financier, tech powerhouse, or marketing guru. Call me naive but I don’t think Person A’s opinion should have any more worth than Person B’s, just because Person B works on Person A’s BMW for a living. 

[samsonh]

52 minutes ago, Pdt2f said:

I think that’s kind of unfair to make that characterization. People have legitimate reasons to be opposed to economic globalization, immigration, and multiculturalism that aren’t just an inability to compete and fear. And an inability to compete doesn’t necessarily make their qualms invalid, anyway. If having the genetics/upbringing/God-given talent to compete for elite jobs on a global scale is what it takes to make your opinions legitimate in this country then there was really no reason to overthrow the old aristocracies, if we were just going to replace them with a meritocratic elite.  Not everyone can be a financier, tech powerhouse, or marketing guru. Call me naive but I don’t think Person A’s opinion should have any more worth than Person B’s, just because Person B works on Person A’s BMW for a living. 

Agree that all opinions should be heard. We live in a country where hard work is generally rewarded. And where access to a decent almost free education is always there. Frankly the arguments against globalism and multicultarism fall flat to me. And they will lose in the end. Technology has made it a global marketplace whether people like it or not. This city is filling up with more and more high earners and high achievers, and those that refuse to enhance their skill set will feel further left behind. So they should do something about it. 

[Tennessine]

4 hours ago, titanhog said:

^^Part of the issue is that you have many people who live rural lives and despise people who live urban lifestyles...and there are urbanists who mock and belittle those who live a rural lifestyle.  Then there are those who like a little of both and don't begrudge anyone living their life exactly however they choose and see benefits in both styles.  We need more like that latter.

I've read a good handful of comments on this forum criticizing rural Tennesseans.

[Tennessine]

1 hour ago, samsonh said:

Agree that all opinions should be heard. We live in a country where hard work is generally rewarded. And where access to a decent almost free education is always there. Frankly the arguments against globalism and multicultarism fall flat to me. And they will lose in the end. Technology has made it a global marketplace whether people like it or not. This city is filling up with more and more high earners and high achievers, and those that refuse to enhance their skill set will feel further left behind. So they should do something about it. 

I agree that people should do everything they can to maximize their skill sets. Globalism, free trade, and reduced government oversight are more economically beneficial than any other social/trade system, whether people like it or not. I agree with everything you mentioned in that part of your post. 

What I disagree with is that people shouldn't feel as if they've been left behind. Yes, they can help themselves, but is everyone capable of doing what the highly educated can do? 

How do you suggest working class people, such as mechanics or those with technical backgrounds, adjust themselves in the new economy beyond what they already know? When those jobs disappear, I don't perceive it as unwarranted for those folks to feel a little bitter. They may see it as this: The highly educated optimize the corporate structure by making cuts on the production line to maximize profit. So naturally they feel their job security is perpetually undermined by wealthy college graduates behind closed doors.

I have to disagree with the point where access to a decent free education is always there. In the suburbs, absolutely. But rural county schools are pretty dismal. The difference in, say, the amount of AP courses offered at a  Williamson County high school is not even close compared to that of rural county. It's more difficult to get a pathway to higher education in rural Tennessee counties than suburban Nashville. The same goes for inner city school districts.

Edited November 15, 2018 by nativetenn

[samsonh]

4 hours ago, nativetenn said:

I agree that people should do everything they can to maximize their skill sets. Globalism, free trade, and reduced government oversight are more economically beneficial than any other social/trade system, whether people like it or not. I agree with everything you mentioned in that part of your post. 

What I disagree with is that people shouldn't feel as if they've been left behind. Yes, they can help themselves, but is everyone capable of doing what the highly educated can do? 

How do you suggest working class people, such as mechanics or those with technical backgrounds, adjust themselves in the new economy beyond what they already know? When those jobs disappear, I don't perceive it as unwarranted for those folks to feel a little bitter. They may see it as this: The highly educated optimize the corporate structure by making cuts on the production line to maximize profit. So naturally they feel their job security is perpetually undermined by wealthy college graduates behind closed doors.

I have to disagree with the point where access to a decent free education is always there. In the suburbs, absolutely. But rural county schools are pretty dismal. The difference in, say, the amount of AP courses offered at a  Williamson County high school is not even close compared to that of rural county. It's more difficult to get a pathway to higher education in rural Tennessee counties than suburban Nashville. The same goes for inner city school districts.

I agree with all of what you are saying. I hope it doesn’t seem like I don’t empathize with the plights it many American workers today, especially muddled aged blue collar. I think significant resources need to be put into job retraining and relocation for these subsets. And there are absolutely differences in quality of education, but if you can make it through high school then Tennessee has plenty of post secondary options that are cheap/free.

i also agree with your points about corporate structure. It is surely frustrating to see the latest tax act passed and the vast majority of that money go into corporate buybacks and not capex spending or wage increases. This is where it is important to know who you are voting fir and what they stand for.

 

job security is constantly under threat from technology for almost anyone. It is certainly true in my field, which is slowly shrinking. I have to differentiate my services/take fee reductions/ utilize technology to serve more clients to make the same amount of money as a decade ago.

[KJHburg]

1/3 of Amazon's current HQ employees walk or bike to work will that happen in Nashville? Have no idea.  

This article talks about the secret about Nashville is out (didn't know it was a secret anyway in the last few years)

https://www.bisnow.com/national/news/office/amazons-operations-center-announcement-for-nashville-means-big-plans-for-citys-infrastructure-housing-and-hospitality-94962?rt=64662&be=kj%40charlottehomes.com&email=kj%40charlottehomes.com&utm_source=MorningBrief&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20181115_charlotte_morningbrief

[smeagolsfree]

 

9 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

1/3 of Amazon's current HQ employees walk or bike to work will that happen in Nashville? Have no idea.  

There are a lot of neighborhoods that are close enough to walk, bike or bus to this location. If you are making 150k, then you can afford any of them. There are probably 6000 or so nits under construction or planned within about a mile of Nashville Yards and I see a lot of them starting sooner now rather than later and some of the stalled projects will have new life like the Buckingham 37 story condo building. We can only hope.

[NissanvilleTitans]

I'm probably 100% wrong about this because I usually am about things but does anyone else feel like Amazon originally wanted Nashville but due to it's size as a city and even more so because those incentive packages from Ny and DC were too large to pass up, they decided to break it up into 3 parts? From a location and logistical standpoint, Nashville just makes sense. It's almost dead center for the entire eastern half, and even a little more, of the country. You can in the large Ne cities or the big Texas cities in about the same time. Or the large Midwest cities, like Minneapolis, or the big Florida cities in about the same time. I was letting my imagination run wild and started thinking as Amazon continues to grow from just a tech giant into also a large delivery company, what if they start buying their own planes and start delivering overseas to different hubs. Nashville and it's airport could become Amazon's international hub. That's huge! Anyway, I also could be wrong on almost all of this, lol.

[smeagolsfree]

16 minutes ago, NissanvilleTitans said:

I'm probably 100% wrong about this because I usually am about things but does anyone else feel like Amazon originally wanted Nashville but due to it's size as a city and even more so because those incentive packages from Ny and DC were too large to pass up, they decided to break it up into 3 parts? From a location and logistical standpoint, Nashville just makes sense. It's almost dead center for the entire eastern half, and even a little more, of the country. You can in the large Ne cities or the big Texas cities in about the same time. Or the large Midwest cities, like Minneapolis, or the big Florida cities in about the same time. I was letting my imagination run wild and started thinking as Amazon continues to grow from just a tech giant into also a large delivery company, what if they start buying their own planes and start delivering overseas to different hubs. Nashville and it's airport could become Amazon's international hub. That's huge! Anyway, I also could be wrong on almost all of this, lol.

I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. This entered my mind the first I heard about it.

[satalac]

Nashville's geographic location likely played a huge part in landing the logistics business of Amazon. They could have put it in DC or NYC, but proximity is key in logistics.

[Armacing]

59 minutes ago, NissanvilleTitans said:

From a location and logistical standpoint, Nashville just makes sense.

I agree.  Think of Nashville as the mid-point of all mid-points:  Memphis (FedEx), Louisville (UPS), Atlanta (UPS).  Nashville is in the middle of all these logistics centers, and if Amazon wants to figure out a way of cutting those parcel carriers out of the profit pipeline, they need to handle their own logistics.  I think that will become the long-term vision for Amazon's distribution strategy, and it looks like the execution part of that strategy will hinge on the efforts of folks based in Nashville.  Very exciting!

 

[PaulChinetti]

People will always be scared of change, it's as old as time, especially in the USA. I just hope as I age, that I will be as open as I am now and not become a repeat of the past. 

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/q7gcyp/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-it-was-the-best-of-times--it-was-the-best-of-times

[e-dub]

3 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

People will always be scared of change, it's as old as time, especially in the USA. I just hope as I age, that I will be as open as I am now and not become a repeat of the past. 

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/q7gcyp/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-it-was-the-best-of-times--it-was-the-best-of-times

Early 40s, here. I've become much more get off my lawn-y as I've gotten older (PARTICULARLY when it comes to music), but I always keep it in my head to not become one of those "resistant to change, just because" types.

[urbanplanet17]

What I'm curious to know is how Nashville's existing corporate base (Bridgestone, Nissan, Dollar General, HCA, etc.) feels about these latest developments.

As far as Bridgestone specifically, I almost landed a job there when they were consolidating their HQ and I know for a fact they don't pay all that well (the amount I wanted was a good bit above their maximum range).

So I imagine they're all worried about talent poaching.

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by urbanplanet17

[PaulChinetti]

@urbanplanet17 I think Nashville wages are about to get a huge bump, with some serious poaching going on. I talked with a recruiter for AB recently and the salaries they are offering are gigantic compared to similar positions in Nashville. It will be interesting how current companies handle the situation, are they just going to eat the brain drain or are they going to step up to the plate and try to keep their best people. 

[Dale]

17 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

People will always be scared of change, it's as old as time, especially in the USA. I just hope as I age, that I will be as open as I am now and not become a repeat of the past. 

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/q7gcyp/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-it-was-the-best-of-times--it-was-the-best-of-times

Just wanted to add that close-mindedness is in no way a function of age.