Amazon: The Thread | 5,000 Jobs | 1M SQFT in Nashville Yards

[Skyscrapergeek]

Prime membership: CANCELLED

[Dale]

In hindsight, was there any basis for thinking this would be a skyscraper ? I mean, Seattle is much larger, has a much taller skyline ... and its Amazon towers are 500 footers.

[e-dub]

50 minutes ago, MLBrumby said:

But really! I don't know a lot about construction and development (et.al.) but at what point is building two buildings more economical than one taller tower?  Seems like you're spending double the money on foundation, design, engineering, etc., compared to going twice (or even more) as tall with one? You also have the added benefit of not utilizing a potential building site for a compatible company's space needs.  Question: Is there a person/group in Metro government that actually discourages taller buildings? I know that MDHA (in its apparent corruption) has done that. But this is not an MDHA development. 

I understand once you get over something around 400 feet, a new set of regulations kicks in the project cost more per floor. I know someone here knows what I'm referring to (and the details), but I'm with you.

[Binbin98]

Amazon coming here still is a big deal and this development will be a big economic boon for the city.

Let's face it. Nashville will never be a tall skyscraper city. There are height restrictions unfortunately that limit it currently on that regard. I do feel however that in the future Nashville eventually will receive a couple of buildings in the 700 ft range, possibly even 800 ft range if continued growth and corporate revocations occur, which could spur new residential developments, but I can't see a building in Nashville taller than 1000 ft ever. 

I do have a European perspective on this though I admit. Countries in Europe such as Belgium, Denmark, The Netherlands and Switzerland all do not have any skyscrapers taller than the Batman Building in their countries, but yet hold immense economic and cultural power within the E.U. and abroad. In London where I live only 8-9 buildings in the city are taller than the Batman Building among the 75 tallest in the city, if that can give some perspective. 

[Dale]

Silver lining: prior to Amazon it was hope against hope that Nashville Yards would build out ... apart from maybe the Hyatt.

With Amazon it looks like it’s all going to be done in short order.

 

 

[MLBrumby]

Agreed!  It's just that the 34-story tower was such a tease. Some here were even dreaming of 500' tall sugarplums dancing in their heads. 

[wmaddbb2018]

So are we talking 300 ft? Similar to 222 2nd height wise?

[Dale]

10 minutes ago, MLBrumby said:

Agreed!  It's just that the 34-story tower was such a tease. Some here were even dreaming of 500' tall sugarplums dancing in their heads. 

Hoping now that Tony G delivers and Second Avenue Partners goes ahead.

[chris holman]

Disappointed

[Vrtigo]

It's on the edge of downtown, it's still a solid hunk of density, and it carries the flag of one of the most influential companies in the world. Sure, I'm a little disappointed in the size, but the next tallest would look kinda awkward in that location anyway.

It's still a historic development for Nashville and I'm 100% onboard with whatever they decide.

[chris holman]

Why can't we build tall at least at a few more buildings I'm like most just want a Tall boy in the city Tony it's all on you 

Edited December 7, 2018 by chris holman

[henburg]

No joke, I actually thought that rendering was a funny photoshop from one of you guys at first HAHAHA

 

We probably should have seen this coming though. Amazon has never built huge and sexy structures, even in Seattle. It's still super exciting and will be one of the most handsome towers in the city. 

Edited December 7, 2018 by henburg

[NashRugger]

48 minutes ago, Vrtigo said:

It's on the edge of downtown, it's still a solid hunk of density, and it carries the flag of one of the most influential companies in the world. Sure, I'm a little disappointed in the size, but the next tallest would look kinda awkward in that location anyway.

It's still a historic development for Nashville and I'm 100% onboard with whatever they decide.

My thoughts exactly. 

I'm to the point where I want my hometown to become a very urban, thriving, and dense core that is the envy of many, which it is steadily starting to gain that level as more developments come online. 

Edited December 7, 2018 by NashRugger

[titanhog]

We're getting an extra tower!!!!  

[FromParkAveToTN]

Look at the bright side,  I'm still beautiful. 

[LA_TN]

This is all my fault. I was the one who asked if they might build two towers instead of one tall tower. Sorry...... 

[Tennessine]

 

[markhollin]

[nashvylle]

I’m excited about this. Yes I wanted a 40 story tower but come on, it’s going to create more of a chance for other office towers to be developed and more apartment buildings and hotels. 

[e-dub]

I'm more of a density dude than a height dude, but we had a real shot at a new tallest with this one. Ah well.

 

But still...

[smeagolsfree]

As far as cost, it is still cheaper to build to 20 story towers than one 40 something tower and logistically easier to move people around in those two towers. That is another reason we are not getting the big boys here. The cost of land has still not gone to the level of necessity to mandate the taller towers. Developers can still find land on the outskirts of downtown where they can build a building with a larger footprint at 20 stories. Insurance rates, construction cost, engineering cost are all still cheaper for smaller buildings. 

The land cost have risen but are no where near what they would need to be to warrant the taller buildings. Now if SWVP had paid 125 million for the Amazon site alone then yes we would have had a tall boy. I am not sure where the land cost would have to be in order to get the floor count higher. I am sure there is a ratio on ROI to money spent on land vs amount per sq. ft. but I have not clue as to what those numbers would be. I would bet they would have to be spending 500 to 1000 per SQ.  FT. So to get in the higher range a buyer would have to spend in the neighbor hood of 40 million per acre. We have not hit that number here yet. Not even Tony's lot on Church comes anywhere near that. I am unsure what the record is for an acre in Nashville or per SQ. FT. is but someone may be able to enlighten us. I think the record is somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 per SQ. FT. but here may have been an 800 per SQ. FT., but those were very small properties. I think the lot where the Embassy Suites went for like 20 million and nothing has been built there yet. That was a little over an acre. 

[nashvylle]

Tower cranes have to be used when you go over 30 stories (cranes are used for shorter buildings because of speed of their delivery) but the cost of tower cranes plus insurance are really, really high. 

[Bos2Nash]

16 hours ago, MLBrumby said:

But really! I don't know a lot about construction and development (et.al.) but at what point is building two buildings more economical than one taller tower?  Seems like you're spending double the money on foundation, design, engineering, etc., compared to going twice (or even more) as tall with one? You also have the added benefit of not utilizing a potential building site for a compatible company's space needs.  Question: Is there a person/group in Metro government that actually discourages taller buildings? I know that MDHA (in its apparent corruption) has done that. But this is not an MDHA development. 

15 hours ago, e-dub said:

I understand once you get over something around 400 feet, a new set of regulations kicks in the project cost more per floor. I know someone here knows what I'm referring to (and the details), but I'm with you.

I believe it really is once you go above the 20 floor mark it begins to change things, but i could be wrong. We all want a beautiful tall skyline, but in reality Nashville is not defined by a skyline and I for one am thankful about that. We are defined by the cultural atmosphere of music (yay!!) and the annoyance of drunk escapade on lower broadway (ok).  The money it takes to go high only works if you have guarunteed money coming back in, and that is achieved through high end condos, or pre-leasing office space. Sometimes both are integrated into one so the condo sales can carry the spec built office space without a major tenant.

Smeag hit the nail on the head though. Because we have sooooo much land that can be developed, no developer will build taller because they can just get more land. I for one am thankful for getting the height that Nashville Yards is getting because it isn't a single giant land hog. Once land becomes a lot more scarce (think every development working with plot size of Tony's development) then we will see major height. 

 

[nashvylle]

to add to @smeagolsfree and @Bos2Nash ....

With Nashville Yards, 5th & Broad, The Gulch, Capitol View, etc... Nashville is becoming more and more a walkable city (at least in downtown). Skinny tall condos will follow. 

Most cities (Dallas, Houston, Atlanta) do the opposite. They have very tall pretty towers, but surrounded by huge surface lots. Now they are playing catch up and trying to make their downtown more walkable. 

Nashville will get both, but I would trade Ten, 10 story buildings for Amazon then what Nashville Yards was before SW Partners bought it. 

 

[Binbin98]

I think that residential developers like Tony G and others should make the pitch that with more larger corporate relocations like Amazon downtown, along with urban developments like Nashville yards and fifth and broadway, more and more people will want to live and work downtown and therefore larger and taller residential buildings will eventually need to be built. I personally don’t think Nashville will get a another new tallest announced or proposed besides the paramount until developments like fifth and broadway, nashville yards, and river north hopefully get built out, because only after there will be demand to live downtown as well as work.