Amazon: The Thread | 5,000 Jobs | 1M SQFT in Nashville Yards

[titanhog]

Metro council votes for no Amazon incentives if Metro workers don't get pay bump.  This is just a "request".

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2019/03/05/nashville-council-no-amazon-incentives-if-metro-workers-dont-get-pay-increase-hq-2-hub-tennessee/3054896002/

[BnaBreaker]

3 hours ago, titanhog said:

Similar to what AOC did in NY?  I agree.  This kind of stuff is bad for cities / states...no matter left or right.

Similar in a way, yes, yet different since to my knowledge all she really did was send a couple tweets opposing corporate subsidies rather than propose legislation (not that she could anyway since she isn't in the state legislature.)  Personally, I'd blame people like Mayor Bill De Blasio more directly.  

[titanhog]

2 hours ago, BnaBreaker said:

Similar in a way, yes, yet different since to my knowledge all she really did was send a couple tweets opposing corporate subsidies rather than propose legislation (not that she could anyway since she isn't in the state legislature.)  Personally, I'd blame people like Mayor Bill De Blasio more directly.  

Definitely...but she's been the most vocal about "corporate welfare"...and was proud they ran Amazon out of NYC.  Either way...we really do have some people on the far sides of both spectrums who miss the forest for the trees.  I'm hopeful that people soon decide to look back towards the middle and try to compromise and stop demanding "my way or the highway" and silly legislation that is meant to just coddle their constituents or punish someone.

[nashscan]

I've been a member of these forums and a fan of skyscrapers and urban growth a lot longer than I've been a Metro employee.    We definitely need to continue to offer whatever incentives necessary to lure these companies here.  That's just how things work in major metropolitan areas.  They provide jobs and keep our economy running, etc.  But at the same time, we are asked to do more and more to keep our government running and I'm talking about essential services like police, fire medical.  We should be paying more than surrounding counties.    We give up our lunch breaks to have enough staff to answer 911 calls sometimes.  We are a growing city, and those who keep it running are often lost in this discussion.  

[nashvylle]

13 minutes ago, nashscan said:

I've been a member of these forums and a fan of skyscrapers and urban growth a lot longer than I've been a Metro employee.    We definitely need to continue to offer whatever incentives necessary to lure these companies here.  That's just how things work in major metropolitan areas.  They provide jobs and keep our economy running, etc.  But at the same time, we are asked to do more and more to keep our government running and I'm talking about essential services like police, fire medical.  We should be paying more than surrounding counties.    We give up our lunch breaks to have enough staff to answer 911 calls sometimes.  We are a growing city, and those who keep it running are often lost in this discussion.  

We should not have the lowest tax rate in the city’s history either. We can have historically low rates, and pay you appropriately. 

Thank you @nashcan for your service! 

[PaulChinetti]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/heres-what-amazon-has-to-do-to-get-23-million-from-arlington-county/2019/03/05/5c084d9a-3f61-11e9-a0d3-1210e58a94cf_story.html?utm_term=.40b7baedc7fb

"As part of the agreement, the famously private Amazon — which required strict confidentiality from local and state governments as it sought to land the company’s second headquarters — must acknowledge that much of the information it provides to the county and state is subject to the state’s Freedom of Information Act statute. That information includes square-footage reports, the number of employees hired in Arlington, incentives paid, and composite tax and revenue data.

The agreement gives Amazon two days after a public-records request “to take such steps as it deems appropriate with regard to the required disclosure of records and (b) disclose only such records as are subject to mandatory disclosure under VaFOIA or other applicable law or regulation.”

Virginia’s FOIA law includes more than 100 exceptions and is not considered one of the stronger ones in the country."

Why would you agree to this out of all the things as a state. So weird/silly/unnecessary. 

[Dale]

9 hours ago, UTgrad09 said:

We're talking about the Tennessee Legislature, numb nuts. Stay on topic.

Nonsense bills go on both sides of the political spectrum. My point still stands. The government should not be proposing bills that address phantom issues. 

When did you graduate from UT ? 1909 ? Infringements on freedoms of conscience and association are a real thing these days. 

Go Gators!

 

 

[UTgrad09]

11 minutes ago, Dale said:

Go Gators!

[Dale]

36 minutes ago, UTgrad09 said:

Ha-Ha! First two seconds of GIF cocky Vols fans in first quarter. 

[Rockatansky]

17 hours ago, Jamie Hall said:

I don't understand Tennessee's obsession with working against its own best interests with Amazon and these huge corporations ready to move in.

Because many rural TN legislators are very anti-Nashville.

[smeagolsfree]

 

11 hours ago, UTgrad09 said:

We're talking about the Tennessee Legislature

Those dummies have no clue that if it were not for Nashville the rest of TN would pretty much be in economic decline. The problem is they have the same power as any other legislators based on the number of people they serve.

I just read an article about a county in KY that I loosing population that only has two law enforcement officer for the whole county and their infrastructure is falling apart. Whos fault is that. That may be the fate for a lot of the rural counties here. The writing is on the wall when you have a legislature that will not expand Medicare and these idiots are seeing their hospitals close and are scratching their heads wondering why that is happening. As the wheels turn in Nashville, more and more of those residents from these small rural counties will be forced into the Metro areas of the state for jobs and quality of life issues and the problem will snowball and you will end up eventually having more representation in the Metro areas than in the rural areas. Their days are numbered.

The rural legislators in the this state are looking to the state to get money for their little Podunk counties but why should Nashville / Davidson County and the other large Metro areas of the State  pay for their problems if they dont want to support us in what we do here and the other engines that drive the states economy . 

[tragenvol]

1 hour ago, smeagolsfree said:

The rural legislators in the this state are looking to the state to get money for their little Podunk counties but why should Nashville / Davidson County and the other large Metro areas of the State  pay for their problems if they don't want to support us in what we do here and the other engines that drive the states economy . 

Not only the rural legislators; Governor Lee has made a priority for rural economic development.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2019/01/23/tennessee-gov-bill-lee-calls-accelerated-rural-development/2656729002/

 

[Armacing]

1 hour ago, smeagolsfree said:

Those dummies have no clue that if it were not for Nashville the rest of TN would pretty much be in economic decline.  

You raise an interesting question about what is driving the economic growth of TN.  I think we should consider the possibility that its the "whole package" of TN that is appealing to companies that move here.  What do I mean by that?  Nashville has it's hip, edgy, artsy, fun characteristics that are attractive to certain demographics.  Williamson (and to a lesser extent other suburban counties) have good schools and all the other trappings of suburban life that are attractive to certain demographics. 

The advantageous tax codes are driven by the free-market/anti-government politics of the state.  To the extent that Nashville is pro-government/anti free-market one could make the argument that the state is dragging Nashville along as the most desirable city in a state that is generally pro-business.  On the other hand, you could say that Nashville's cultural offerings make it more attractive and drag the state along with it on it's climb to excellence.  Sort of a chicken-and-egg scenario, but my opinion is that they both get credit.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Armacing

[NashvilleObserver]

15 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Seattle was just shut down over a snowstorm recently not to mention they are in a huge earthquake seduction zone and have 2 volcanoes that could  blow anytime.   They need to spread their operations out and Nashville is key part of that as they proposed. 

 

I've never thought about this perspective! It's certainly true. All we have here in Nashville is rare floods, summer heat, and a one-time downtown tornado.

[Armacing]

2 minutes ago, NashvilleObserver said:

I've never thought about this perspective! It's certainly true. All we have here in Nashville is rare floods, summer heat, and a one-time downtown tornado.

I think political risk weighs more heavily on the minds of Amazon execs than natural disasters do.  Think about why Japanese companies build factories in the US.  It's not because they are afraid of earthquakes in JP, it's driven by the need to avoid arousing protectionist sentiments in the US.  Similar story with Amazon, I think.  I believe that ill-fated payroll tax in Seattle was a wake up call to Amazon about the need to diversify their footprint to a variety of political environments.  Also, I think the current anti-trust frenzy in Europe adds to this anxiety about existential political threats.

[DDIG]

19 minutes ago, Armacing said:

I think political risk weighs more heavily on the minds of Amazon execs than natural disasters do.  Think about why Japanese companies build factories in the US.  It's not because they are afraid of earthquakes in JP, it's driven by the need to avoid arousing protectionist sentiments in the US.  Similar story with Amazon, I think.  I believe that ill-fated payroll tax in Seattle was a wake up call to Amazon about the need to diversify their footprint to a variety of political environments.  Also, I think the current anti-trust frenzy in Europe adds to this anxiety about existential political threats.

Yep. And why not? In this interconnected world and with a global company there's no need to put 100k or even 50k employees in the same city. Way more risk than advantage.

Edited March 6, 2019 by DDIG

[Tennessine]

3 hours ago, Dale said:

Ha-Ha! First two seconds of GIF cocky Vols fans in first quarter. 

Hey Jorts enthusiast, do us a favor and beat LSU again tonight.

How's the weather down there? No, I wasn't talking about Gainesville, I meant from 8th place in the SEC 

[Ingram]

If Amazon doesn't like it they can leave. The same with Oracle and AllianceBernstein. The people of Nashville and Tennessee are not here to idol worship any company/developer or bow down to their will. This isn't the 1800s south where the oligarchs dictated and controlled everyone's  life.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Ingram

[grilled_cheese]

4 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

 

Those dummies have no clue that if it were not for Nashville the rest of TN would pretty much be in economic decline. The problem is they have the same power as any other legislators based on the number of people they serve.

I just read an article about a county in KY that I loosing population that only has two law enforcement officer for the whole county and their infrastructure is falling apart. Whos fault is that. That may be the fate for a lot of the rural counties here. The writing is on the wall when you have a legislature that will not expand Medicare and these idiots are seeing their hospitals close and are scratching their heads wondering why that is happening. As the wheels turn in Nashville, more and more of those residents from these small rural counties will be forced into the Metro areas of the state for jobs and quality of life issues and the problem will snowball and you will end up eventually having more representation in the Metro areas than in the rural areas. Their days are numbered.

The rural legislators in the this state are looking to the state to get money for their little Podunk counties but why should Nashville / Davidson County and the other large Metro areas of the State  pay for their problems if they dont want to support us in what we do here and the other engines that drive the states economy .  

keep going, i'm almost there.

[Mr_Bond]

2 hours ago, Armacing said:

You raise an interesting question about what is driving the economic growth of TN.  I think we should consider the possibility that its the "whole package" of TN that is appealing to companies that move here.  What do I mean by that?  Nashville has it's hip, edgy, artsy, fun characteristics that are attractive to certain demographics.  Williamson (and to a lesser extent other suburban counties) have good schools and all the other trappings of suburban life that are attractive to certain demographics. 

New Nashville residents are often attracted to our rural areas.  Look at how well Cookeville is using their geographic location as a driver of growth.

[Rockatansky]

21 hours ago, tragenvol said:

Governor Lee has made a priority for rural economic development.

Throwing good money after bad IMO.

[Armacing]

1 hour ago, Rockatansky said:

Throwing good money after bad IMO.

Why do you think so?  I have observed that recent rural economic development efforts have focused on manufacturing, some of it quite sophisticated.  Consider the new Nokian plant in Dunlap or Wacker Chemie in Charleston.  Are you against having manufacturing as part of the state's economic portfolio, or are you saying manufacturing should be located right in the city?

[DDIG]

3 minutes ago, Armacing said:

Why do you think so?  I have observed that recent rural economic development efforts have focused on manufacturing, some of it quite sophisticated.  Consider the new Nokian plant in Dunlap or Wacker Chemie in Charleston.  Are you against having manufacturing as part of the state's economic portfolio, or are you saying manufacturing should be located right in the city?

That's right. If it is money pumped into a rural area to artificially keep it alive that's bad. If it is equipping them with Broadband so more business can be done or attracting manufacturing investment, etc. - that's good.

Related, this announcement today:

https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/breakingnews/story/2019/mar/06/german-company-stulz-air-technology-systems-setting-manufacturing-operations-dayton-tennessee-creating-250-jobs/490093/

 

[Armacing]

2 minutes ago, DDIG said:

That's right. If it is money pumped into a rural area to artificially keep it alive that's bad. If it is equipping them with Broadband so more business can be done or attracting manufacturing investment, etc. - that's good.

Related, this announcement today:

https://www.timesfreepress.com/news/breakingnews/story/2019/mar/06/german-company-stulz-air-technology-systems-setting-manufacturing-operations-dayton-tennessee-creating-250-jobs/490093/

 

While I'm not sure any incentives are beneficial from an wealth-creation standpoint, I just wanted to make sure we are correctly characterizing what "rural economic development" means in TN.  As far as I can determine, it means providing payroll rebates, subsidized training, possibly some subsidized land, probably some cash incentives.  Sometimes there is no specific outlay of state funds at all, but rather a "fast-track" process for approvals and start-up.

Basically, I read "rural economic development" as a manufacturing-focused version of the same types of incentives used to lure service-industry jobs like Amazon, E&Y, Oracle, etc.

[tragenvol]

1 hour ago, Armacing said:

Basically, I read "rural economic development" as a manufacturing-focused version of the same types of incentives used to lure service-industry jobs like Amazon, E&Y, Oracle, etc.

Part of the Governor's plan for rural economic development is workforce development via equipment for training, i.e. technical training.  This is great, but where will those trained/skilled folks become employed if there aren't any facilities in their home county to apply their skills?  Likely they'll have to commute to areas with employers needing their skills.  However,  if rural economic development intends to bring manufacturing jobs to distressed rural counties, then would there be enough skilled labor to entice manufacturers to those areas?

Another consideration is access to these rural counties; are manufacturers going to invest infrastructure and other resources in areas that aren't easily accessible?  Weren't all county seats supposed to someday have four lane highways accessible to an interstate in order to promote economic development?

Lots of variables; and many times funding can't fix all, or at least there isn't enough funding to fix it all.

Edited March 7, 2019 by tragenvol