Amazon: The Thread | 5,000 Jobs | 1M SQFT in Nashville Yards

[markhollin]

Good overview of pros and cons of possible move:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2018/01/19/quest-amazon-some-nashvillians-say-no-thanks/1049202001/

[PaulChinetti]

“"You are making a 50-year decision," Haslam said. "We won't always be at 3 percent unemployment. I think with Amazon, that is something that will draw a lot of people in. Wherever they go, they will bring a lot of people, not necessarily with them, but to them."”

This is a great point. 

 

I have to assume people that don’t want this also don’t want mass transit. Because it won’t help now!

 

I’m not a negative person but lately people have been really needling me. 

[titanhog]

37 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

“"You are making a 50-year decision," Haslam said. "We won't always be at 3 percent unemployment. I think with Amazon, that is something that will draw a lot of people in. Wherever they go, they will bring a lot of people, not necessarily with them, but to them."”

This is a great point. 

 

I have to assume people that don’t want this also don’t want mass transit. Because it won’t help now!

 

I’m not a negative person but lately people have been really needling me. 

Totally understand...but I don't think you can discount the way different people feel about Nashville or about what they love / loved about the city / region. It's like Music Row for me.  I moved here in 1993...and I fell in love with the quirky-ness of Music Row.  All of the hodgepodge buildings...the mom and pop feel...the fact that almost the entire industry was within walking distance...everyone got to know everyone.  It was a community...but a lot of that has changed over time and I don't particularly like it (though I understand change has to happen...but not always for the better).

Each person has a reason that they love this place.  Some want to see it get "bigger and better"...while others fell in love with the "city with a small-town feel" and lament the fact that this will soon die away.  

Heck...even on here, a lot of people have expressed they don't want Amazon to choose us because it will be too disruptive.  That same feeling towards Amazon is what some residents feels about much smaller projects.  Each addition or subtraction changes a neighborhood...sometimes for the better and sometimes not.

As much as I dislike the NIMBYs...they're not always wrong.

[PaulChinetti]

Very true and a great point @titanhog

Everyone loves something different!

[LA_TN]

8 hours ago, PaulChinetti said:

...I have to assume people that don’t want this also don’t want mass transit ...

Disagree. We need mass transit. We are doing just fine without casinos, which some feel we "must have". And we are doing just fine without Amazon

Many years ago, Dell came to town with big promises. And now we have a nice call center. I would be ecstatic if Nashville is selected, but I'm not drinking the Amazon kool aid

[Buildtall]

Is it known yet when ＡＭＡＺＯＮ will make another announcement as to the top 10 or top 5 or just announce where they have chosen. 

[Pdt2f]

40 minutes ago, Buildtall said:

Is it known yet when ＡＭＡＺＯＮ will make another announcement as to the top 10 or top 5 or just announce where they have chosen. 

They’ll probably give their 20 semi finalists time to offer more tax incentives, construction funding help and firstborn children first. Then they’ll pare it down a bit more and do it over again. I think Bezos will have the last two city’s mayor’s knife-fight in front of him for the HQ. 

[e-dub]

51 minutes ago, Buildtall said:

Is it known yet when ＡＭＡＺＯＮ will make another announcement as to the top 10 or top 5 or just announce where they have chosen. 

ｓｔｒｏｎｇ ｐｏｓｔ.

[xtianpoop]

On 1/19/2018 at 9:47 PM, LA_TN said:

- Nashville is just not attractive to top level tech talent, not big enough?, maybe the country music?, lack of creativity?, who knows. [...]

My personal experience with the influx resulted in more newbies and junior talent. Mid-level and senior-level talent is nearly non-existent. Honestly, I feel like we get the leftovers and rejects from other cities, but maybe I'm a bit harsh. [...]

You weren't seriously asking, but thinking about it for a bit, my gut leans towards perception. Nashville isn't billed as a "tech" town. Startups are billed some, but not tech. I'm thinking in terms of messaging. That's one side, and the other side is from individual companies recruiting,  getting the word out. I totally can see the "leftovers and rejects" you say Nashville gets- that is, just not top tiers, competitive talent. Hate to keep bringing Chatt into it (half to less-than half the size doesn't make for great comparison), but their primers, their other PR efforts, etc at least sells itself as a place for tech (if only under the guise of "entrepreneurial," startups, etc). It's a place of pride. Numbers pale to Nashville, but to my reference of Nashville's messaging...that would be one place I would start were I in any official capacity for the city.

On 1/20/2018 at 12:30 AM, Hey_Hey said:

Senior people don't want to move to new cities, and that's not something unique to tech.  [...] I don't think there's anything that is necessarily un-appealing about Nashville to tech people, it's just that Nashville doesn't have a deep bench of junior people already here that will become senior people.

I'm not convinced that HQ2 will be the major tech headquarters either.  [...]

Agreed on all accounts. Hit all the nails on their heads. 

23 hours ago, PHofKS said:

I think it's very possible Seattle will still  be the primary IT center managing the logistics of running the massive distribution system. However, I can see HQ2 as a place for various divisions and ancillary industries such as music, entertainment production and healthcare, requiring less IT talent and more management, legal, sales,  and production talent. In that case,  Nashville would be the perfect place to grow those kinds of industries.

Put each division in a skyscraper, then build movie, TV and recording studios  on their campus at River North where they can see and harness the energy, growth, talent and uniqueness of Music City, USA.

Quoting this one because - while I'm undecided if I'd like the HQ2 in Nash (admittedly, I've no present dog in the race) - Amazon would be well to do all you say here. It didn't click before now how brilliantly positioned Nashville is (and could be) for future growth opportunities for Amazon...studios, healthcare, on top of a bolstering logistics hub, to name but a few.

Edited January 21, 2018 by xtianpoop
Forgot to bold bits of last quote

[urbanplanet17]

6 hours ago, xtianpoop said:

You weren't seriously asking, but thinking about it for a bit, my gut leans towards perception. Nashville isn't billed as a "tech" town. Startups are billed some, but not tech. I'm thinking in terms of messaging. That's one side, and the other side is from individual companies recruiting,  getting the word out. I totally can see the "leftovers and rejects" you say Nashville gets- that is, just not top tiers, competitive talent. Hate to keep bringing Chatt into it (half to less-than half the size doesn't make for great comparison), but their primers, their other PR efforts, etc at least sells itself as a place for tech (if only under the guise of "entrepreneurial," startups, etc). It's a place of pride. Numbers pale to Nashville, but to my reference of Nashville's messaging...that would be one place I would start were I in any official capacity for the city.

Chattanooga isn't a bad town for sure. Volkswagen has done wonders for the city, and it's beginning to benefit now from being smooshed between Nashville and Atlanta's sprawl. Put a commuter rail line between Nashville and Atlanta and it should really take off. 

 

Amazon HQ2 skit on SNL.

Can't say they weren't spot on with Atlanta. BTW, Kenan Thompson is an Atlanta native.

 

[MidTenn1]

The Nashville connection to Amazon. (from Wikipedia)

Quote

The company (Amazon) began as an online bookstore, which was an idea spurred off with a discussion with John Ingram of Ingram Book (now called Ingram Content Group), along with Keyur Patel who still holds a stake in Amazon. Amazon was able to access books at wholesale from Ingram. In the first two months of business, Amazon sold to all 50 states and over 45 countries. Within two months, Amazon's sales were up to $20,000/week. While the largest brick and mortar bookstores and mail order catalogs might offer 200,000 titles, an online bookstore could "carry" several times more, since it would have a practically unlimited virtual warehouse: those of the actual product makers/suppliers.

Of course, John Ingram is the owner of the Nashville FC (MLS Soccer Franchise) and part of the multi billion dollar Nashville Ingram family. Not sure how this connection helps other than just put Nashville on the Amazon map.

Nashville connection part 2; Alane Monie' is the CEO of Ingram Micro and a member of the Board of Directors of Amazon. 

Quote

In 1989 Ingram Micro, then called "Ingram Micro-D", was a subsidiary of the privately owned Ingram Industries group, took over the Belgian Softinvest and its three Softeurop subsidiaries active on the Belgian, the French and the Dutch markets from Brussels, Lille and Utrecht. This was Ingram's first foray outside the United States other than a few Ingram Industries subsidiaries. The company embarked on an active merge, acquisitions and foundation strategy in the European market. In December 201the HNA Group acquired Ingram Micro in an all-cash transaction with an equity value of approximately $6 billion.

In February 2016, Ingram Micro announced its agreement to be acquired by the Chinese company Tianjin Tianhai Investment, a subsidiary of mega-conglomerate HNA Group, for $6 billion;

 

It was reported at the time that Alain Monié, Ingram's chief executive, would remain in place.

 

[ZestyEd]

A good read..

"The fastest growth in educated millennials today is taking place not in New York, Washington or San Francis
co, but in opportunity cities like Nashville, Denver, Charlotte, Raleigh and Orlando,” 

https://chiefexecutive.net/why-the-amazonhq2-list-is-great-news-for-every-ceo/

[markhollin]

Good opinion piece by David Plazas of The Tennessean: Nashville, Amazon, and the costs of growth.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/opinion/columnists/david-plazas/2018/01/23/amazon-nashville-and-costs-growth/1054616001/

[Flatrock]

Just FYI and FWIW:

Synopsis- there's a development in the works for Atlanta's Gulch area that's pretty much dovetailing with Amazon's specs.

http://www.apnewsarchive.com/2018/As-Atlanta-vies-for-Amazon-s-second-headquarters-a-developer-just-happens-to-be-proposing-an-Amazon-sized-5-billion-downtown-project/id-cf0986da5577400ea81dd16c41d21666

 

[markhollin]

Nashville business leaders weigh-in on Amazon HQ2 possibility.  NBJ surveyed 36 top Nashville CEO's...half are for it, half against.  Some highlights:

Sean Henry, president and CEO of the Nashville Predators, said he “absolutely” wants Nashville to win the bid. One reason is the urgency that moment would create.

“It will put demands on all of our systems short term, none greater than on transportation and education. In the end, that will allow us — force us — to improve both, faster than our current trajectory will,” Henry said. “Necessity is an amazing trigger.”

"It is not getting easier for the people who work to make Nashville work. My hourly employees, cooks and managers are having a harder time affording rent or a home purchase in Nashville,” said Austin Ray, best known for The Sutler Saloon and his several M.L. Rose Craft Beer & Burgers restaurants. “Wages are going up, but not as rapidly as rent and home prices. If a project the size and scope of Amazon came to town … are we prepared to meet that challenge?”

Wesley Keegan, who said he wants Amazon to come to Nashville, reflect on the stretch earlier this month when public schools were closed for five days after some ice and a few inches of snow.

“Everyone I know sure enjoys all the benefits that come with the growth we’ve seen, no matter how much we like to moan about the growing pains. An influx of that magnitude is going to take some immediate, drastic municipal improvements,” said Keegan, owner of West Nashville’s TailGate Brewery. “We need to vastly improve infrastructure to prevent weeks like that. It feels like it happens every year, and it’s just not acceptable.”

“This is our moonshot. Nashville will have to say, ‘We’re going to have 100,000 tech jobs in a decade.’ We’d have to be intentional about it, but when Nashville is intentional, we get things done.”  - James Weaver, Waller Lansden Dortch & Davis.

Full piece behind the NBJ paywall here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2018/01/25/ceos-weigh-inamazon-hq2-a-risky-deal-for-nashville.html?s=print
 

[MidTenn1]

An interesting article from the Chicago Tribune regarding what Amazon is looking for from cities in the final 20 round of negotiations.

Quote

Amazon dials up Chicago, other HQ2 contenders, to explain selection process 

Amazon has begun briefing officials in Chicago and 19 other cities in the running for the company’s HQ2 second headquarters on the next phase of the process, after announcing the 20 contenders last week………

………John Schoettler, who oversees Amazon’s real estate, provided a few clues while speaking at an event Friday in Seattle. The comments could be interpreted to mean Amazon prefers a more condensed, urban setting similar to what it has in its ever-expanding Seattle offices.

 

Amazon envisions “a combination of buildings and facilities probably within walking proximity to one another,” Schoettler said at the event, according to a Jan. 19 story in the Puget Sound Business Journal. Schoettler also expressed an aversion to bids that propose spreading 8 million square feet of offices onto several sites, unless those sites can be expanded or somehow connected.

He also indicated Amazon would heavily weigh factors such as availability and cost of housing and proximity to public transportation. “We look forward to cities that are also progressive and are thinking forward and long-term in terms of affordable housing and mass transportation and being able to move people around,” Schoettler said, according to the business journal.

If Nashville passes the mass transit resolution, it looks like they can meet these conditions. Affordable housing requirements may be relative and more aimed at Washington DC or New York. 

Building proximity seems to be important, although there was the qualification of 'somehow connected'. The CofC proposal to link several downtown sites with a trolley may be a response to that particular requirement. I did this crude diagram of a possible downtown development for Amazon although it is well sort on 100 acres.

SoBro has been mentioned in this forum as a good possible location, but there are a lot of small, disconnected properties that would somehow have to be acquired. RIverNorth still seems to be the City's best hope to recruit Amazon.

[titanhog]

^^River North is perfect.  They can basically build an Amazon campus...within an ear-shot of the CBD...can actually design and build the public transportation system into their grid the way they want and demand instead of using what is already there...and the "hip" housing of E. Nashville and the downtown condo towers / apartments would seem to be perfect for Amazon workers.

Makes too much sense.

[FluffyP13]

and the salaries they will be making, they will be able to afford germantown too- right across the river and to be connected via pedestrian bridge 

[Pdt2f]

They could build their campus at River North and also have a few office locations across the city to “stitch into the fabric of the city” or whatever they said they wanted to do. I could see them leasing space downtown and especially midtown/music row. With music row, the Virgin Hotel, and the bar/music/food scene of that area, I could see Amazon wanting to be there. 

[Hey_Hey]

I've thought River North was their only option in Nashville, but on the heels of the Nashville Yards announcement of their 750,000 sq foot office building today I may be changing my mind.  While River North would give them a huge area of contiguous land, they could probably also make their campus within easy walking distance of Nashville Yards (Southwestern CBD).  They have announced that they will need up to 8 million square feet, although that will take a decade or longer to fully build out wherever they locate.  

Here is what I see:

Already announced (1.9 million sq ft):

Nashville Yards Phase I office: 750,000 sq ft

Mainland at KVB Roundabout : 400,000 sq ft

Endeavor Deja Vue property: 350,000 sq ft

5th & Broad: 385,000 sq ft

That would be  almost 2 million sq ft in office space already announced and would allow them to begin massive operations within two or three years.  That still leaves ~6 million square feet to be built, but I think we could get that as well.

Obvious targets of additional office with my estimated sq feet (5.8 million sq ft):

Nashville Yards additional office: 500,000 sq ft

Turnberry site adjacent to JWM: 600,000 sq ft

Liff Properties: 1.25 million sq ft

Tennessean Property: 1 million sq ft

Giarratana property at roundabout: 350,000 sq ft

Demonbreun Hill redevelopment: 500,000 sq ft

Market Street Property along Demonbreun b/w 11th and 12th: 400,000 sq ft

Whiskey Kitchen property: 350,000 sq ft

AME Church property at KVB roundabout: 500,000 sq ft

Gibson Guitar property at Church and 11th Ave N: 350,000 sq ft

 

Building out all of these buildings would provide 7.7 million square feet by my estimates and would stretch from the KVB roundabout to Church street which is roughly 3/4 mile in distance. It would also extend up Demonbreun Hill and provide Amazon a natural location for their music and entertainment divisions to be housed. It would provide a mixed used "Amazon Campus" of roughly 1/4 sq mile (150 acres) with residential, office, hotels, entertainment, shopping, groceries, cultural amenities, and public transit. The majority of the campus would be within 1/2 mile of either of the two transit tunnel stops. As compared to River North, this "Amazon Campus" would be woven into the fabric of the urban core of Nashville instead of having it's own enclave away from downtown. While River North would allow them to start with a clean slate, this location would allow them to utilize infrastructure that is already in place. 

[Ingram]

Not that I want Amazon to come here, but I would hope their brass would not be dumb enough to scatter their office operations over multiple locations. That would be incredibly inefficient. 

River North, Williamson County, etc would be more efficient.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Ingram

[Pdt2f]

10 hours ago, Hey_Hey said:

I've thought River North was their only option in Nashville, but on the heels of the Nashville Yards announcement of their 750,000 sq foot office building today I may be changing my mind.  While River North would give them a huge area of contiguous land, they could probably also make their campus within easy walking distance of Nashville Yards (Southwestern CBD).  They have announced that they will need up to 8 million square feet, although that will take a decade or longer to fully build out wherever they locate.  

Here is what I see:

Already announced (1.9 million sq ft):

Nashville Yards Phase I office: 750,000 sq ft

Mainland at KVB Roundabout : 400,000 sq ft

Endeavor Deja Vue property: 350,000 sq ft

5th & Broad: 385,000 sq ft

That would be  almost 2 million sq ft in office space already announced and would allow them to begin massive operations within two or three years.  That still leaves ~6 million square feet to be built, but I think we could get that as well.

Obvious targets of additional office with my estimated sq feet (5.8 million sq ft):

Nashville Yards additional office: 500,000 sq ft

Turnberry site adjacent to JWM: 600,000 sq ft

Liff Properties: 1.25 million sq ft

Tennessean Property: 1 million sq ft

Giarratana property at roundabout: 350,000 sq ft

Demonbreun Hill redevelopment: 500,000 sq ft

Market Street Property along Demonbreun b/w 11th and 12th: 400,000 sq ft

Whiskey Kitchen property: 350,000 sq ft

AME Church property at KVB roundabout: 500,000 sq ft

Gibson Guitar property at Church and 11th Ave N: 350,000 sq ft

 

Building out all of these buildings would provide 7.7 million square feet by my estimates and would stretch from the KVB roundabout to Church street which is roughly 3/4 mile in distance. It would also extend up Demonbreun Hill and provide Amazon a natural location for their music and entertainment divisions to be housed. It would provide a mixed used "Amazon Campus" of roughly 1/4 sq mile (150 acres) with residential, office, hotels, entertainment, shopping, groceries, cultural amenities, and public transit. The majority of the campus would be within 1/2 mile of either of the two transit tunnel stops. As compared to River North, this "Amazon Campus" would be woven into the fabric of the urban core of Nashville instead of having it's own enclave away from downtown. While River North would allow them to start with a clean slate, this location would allow them to utilize infrastructure that is already in place. 

I love the idea, but I highly doubt amazon would be able to lease basically every inch of office space that is projected to come online in the downtown area over the next 5 years or so. If they did, however, it would most likely accelerate River North, even without amazon as a tenant. Downtown would be pretty tapped out, RN would be the only place left with plentiful land for high rise building in the core. 

[markhollin]

There are still many significant parcels within CBD north of Broadway and in the northern Gulch that (for the right price) could be purchased and have big boys put on them.  Here are  some screen shots of Smeagolsfree's excellent development map:

The dual lots on either side of 5th Ave. North along the north side of Commerce St:

Giarrantana's lot facing Church Street and the lot just south of Nashville City Center:

 

The NE corner of Rosa Parks Blvd and Church St:

 

The SW corner of Rosa Parks Blvd. and Church St:

 

The block along the south side of Commerce between Rosa Parks and 7th Ave. North:

 

The dual lots of Southern Baptist Convention HQ (up for sale), and the Christ Chathedral parking lot at SW corner of Rosa Parks and Commerce:

 

The Liff/Cummins Station lots on either side of Demonbreun:

 

The Exxon property at SE corner of 12th Ave. and Broadway (currently up for sale):

 

The surface lots behind the new Endeavor project along 12th Ave. North and Grundy St:

 

The Gibson properties bounded by Church 12th Ave. North, Grundy, and 11th Ave. North (most currently up for sale)

 

A real jewel: the entire N.E.S. campus (but please leave the art deco HQ building) bounded by George L. Davis Blvd, Charlotte Ave, 11th Ave. North, and Church Street:

 

The parking lots for Tenn State Univ. Avon Campus and YMCA along10th Ave. North:

SE corner of Charlotte and Rosa Parks Blvd:

The State parking lots along Rosa Parks Blvd. on north side of Charlotte:

 

The Whiskey Kitchen site and surface lot for Bohan Bldg at NE corner of Demonbreun and 12th Ave. South:

 

The block at SE corner of Demonbreun and 12th Ave. South:

 

The oddly shaped lot at NW corner of Lea and 9th Ave. South:

[nashwatcher]

If Amazon comes, allow all the properties in the interstate loop to have more height.  Height restriction are crazy as is...make it work for them!

[nashvylle]

Wouldn't Amazon prefer dealing with one developer who already owns all the land (i.e. RiverNorth or Atlanta's gulch neighborhood) versus a city saying we have a lot of parcels that could be developed?