Amazon: The Thread | 5,000 Jobs | 1M SQFT in Nashville Yards

[urbanplanet17]

Wow. And this is just the beginning...

Christie, Lawmakers Plan to Offer Amazon $5 Billion Tax Break

http://observer.com/2017/09/christie-lawmakers-plan-to-offer-amazon-5-billion-tax-break/

Gov. Chris Christie and legislative leaders will offer tax breaks worth $5 billion to Amazon if it builds its second headquarters in New Jersey, a plan that would expand a controversial subsidy program.

The Legislature’s top Democrats and Republicans announced Wednesday that they back Christie’s plan to loosen restrictions on the Grow NJ program, carving out new exceptions for “transformational projects” such as the Amazon headquarters. Under a proposed bill, Amazon could receive $10,000 for each job it created each year for a decade, a rate that could cost the state $5 billion over the life of the project if Amazon lives up to its promise to create up to 50,000 jobs wherever it goes, according to a letter to Christie from legislative leaders. New Jersey has awarded more than $8 billion in economic subsidies since Christie took office in 2010.

[titanhog]

^^So I'm guessing we'll have to come at them with at least $5 Billion...and also the River North land...and who knows what else.  I'm sure the "no state income tax" will help us.  Wonder if we also need to also throw in some type of accelerated tech incubator program to help grow the tech scene here?

And btw...do we really HAVE to have a tech scene for them to choose us?  Wouldn't the techies follow Amazon here?  Seems to me, people from all tech centers around the country (or the world, for that matter) would move here to have an Amazon job like this.  The result would eventually mean we'd have a really robust tech scene within a few short years.

Edited September 30, 2017 by titanhog

[timmay143]

3 hours ago, titanhog said:

And btw...do we really HAVE to have a tech scene for them to choose us?  Wouldn't the techies follow Amazon here?  Seems to me, people from all tech centers around the country (or the world, for that matter) would move here to have an Amazon job like this.  The result would eventually mean we'd have a really robust tech scene within a few short years.

This.

I don't think we will need to throw as much as NJ.  I would need a lot of money too to even consider living and working there...

[Pdt2f]

[urbanplanet17]

19 hours ago, timmay143 said:

This.

I don't think we will need to throw as much as NJ.  I would need a lot of money too to even consider living and working there...

One thing's for sure though, NJ would certainly raise the bar with that type of proposal.

In other words, any contender that's serious should expect to offer at least a multi-billion dollar incentive package. 

Edited October 1, 2017 by urbanplanet17

[L'burgnative]

On 9/30/2017 at 3:04 PM, titanhog said:

^^So I'm guessing we'll have to come at them with at least $5 Billion...and also the River North land...and who knows what else.  I'm sure the "no state income tax" will help us.  Wonder if we also need to also throw in some type of accelerated tech incubator program to help grow the tech scene here?

And btw...do we really HAVE to have a tech scene for them to choose us?  Wouldn't the techies follow Amazon here?  Seems to me, people from all tech centers around the country (or the world, for that matter) would move here to have an Amazon job like this.  The result would eventually mean we'd have a really robust tech scene within a few short years.

I've been thinking this exact thing for a while.  Nashville may not be a "tech" city but you have a city less then a 100 miles that is to recruit talent from.  This may be apples and oranges but did you know that Cummings Research Park here in Huntsville has the second largest (only behind Silicon Valley) concentration of research and tech companies in the country?  Also something I heard on the street but I never googled (I really don't know how to google this one) is that the Huntsville Area has the highest per capita of Master and Doctorate degree's in the country.  Again Aerospace/Defense vs. Online shopping might be two completely different things but Nashville does have a talent pool close  to recruit from and people willing to relocate for.  If Amazon is looking for Sheldon Cooper's I promise Huntsville's got plenty for Nashville to steal away.

Edited October 2, 2017 by L'burgnative

[bnacincy]

10 hours ago, L'burgnative said:

I've been thinking this exact thing for a while.  Nashville may not be a "tech" city but you have a city less then a 100 miles that is to recruit talent from.  This may be apples and oranges but did you know that Cummings Research Park here in Huntsville has the second largest (only behind Silicon Valley) concentration of research and tech companies in the country?  Also something I heard on the street but I never googled (I really don't know how to google this one) is that the Huntsville Area has the highest per capita of Master and Doctorate degree's in the country.  Again Aerospace/Defense vs. Online shopping might be two completely different things but Nashville does have a talent pool close  to recruit from and people willing to relocate for.  If Amazon is looking for Sheldon Cooper's I promise Huntsville's got plenty for Nashville to steal away.

I think you need a combination of things-cultural amenities, mass transit, good educational system,etc, that would make people and companies want to come here. Nashville is definitely on its way but I'm concerned it's not quite where it needs to be to attract a company like Amazon. The transit issue is a serious one as Nashville is way behind other cities in comparison.

[smeagolsfree]

Speaking of Transit, I did a quick drive through Charlotte and they are expanding the Lynx along Davidson now. They are running behind and over budget, but other cities just keep leaving us chocking on their dust. However Austin just has one leg of their system up and running with no prospects of it expanding anytime soon, because voters did not approve the referendum to expand it.

I drove through Atlanta this past week as well and it is still a nightmare traffic city as it will always be. That will always be a detriment to the area.

I was also in Winston Salem this past week and Amazon was all over the news as the media and the three cities there are pushing hard for it, but that would probably be the last area of NC they would go as  RD & CH and Charlotte are pushing for Amazon as well. 

As I have seen in several reports, mass transit is not necessarily a deal breaker.

[MidTenn1]

From the River North site, Amazon would literally be within walking distance of, not only Germantown via a pedestrian bridge, but also up and coming Cleveland Park  and even East Nashville for the more ambitious souls.  At the least, they would be a short shuttle, Uber or bike ride away for home for 10's of thousands of their employees. That's better for employees and the planet than shipping them to some distant 'burb, even by train.

What other city brings that to the table?

[Flatrock]

2 hours ago, PHofKS said:

What other city brings that to the table?

Wow. If the city, state and River North developers don't have this map in front of Amazon's HQ2 project team and the Amazon executive team - then they need to get off their behinds and make that happen - pronto. Good stuff.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Flatrock

[markhollin]

^ ^ ^ Great map, PHoKS.  Additionally, there is a HUGE amount of area for residential growth just 5 minutes to the north along West Trinity Lane and the White's Creek Pike corridor.  And, of course, all the development along Dickerson Pike corridor, Chestnut Hill/WeHo, Charlotte corridor, and McKissack Park are within just a few miles as well. 

And, as you mentioned, directly across the river to the west you have those blocks and blocks of potential apartment/condo developments still empty in Germantown and all around the ballpark.  Could easily be another 4,000 units in those slots as well.  I can see that whole area becoming a mini Barcelona with block after block of 4-6 story dwellings, most with street activation.  : )

[jmtunafish]

2 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

Speaking of Transit, I did a quick drive through Charlotte and they are expanding the Lynx along Davidson now. They are running behind and over budget, but other cities just keep leaving us chocking on their dust. However Austin just has one leg of their system up and running with no prospects of it expanding anytime soon, because voters did not approve the referendum to expand it.

I drove through Atlanta this past week as well and it is still a nightmare traffic city as it will always be. That will always be a detriment to the area.

I was also in Winston Salem this past week and Amazon was all over the news as the media and the three cities there are pushing hard for it, but that would probably be the last area of NC they would go as  RD & CH and Charlotte are pushing for Amazon as well. 

As I have seen in several reports, mass transit is not necessarily a deal breaker.

I agree about the Triad.  It's kind of sad to see how that area, which used to be the largest metropolitan area in NC, has now dwindled into near obscurity as Charlotte and RDU have surged past it.  It wasn't that long ago that Greensboro was the largest city in NC.  Winston-Salem is a wonderfully livable city, easily one of my favorite in America.  But as you said, I just don't think they stand a chance at luring Amazon.  When people think of North Carolina anymore, the Triad is almost always overlooked in favor of Charlotte and the Triangle.  Even Asheville gets more love than the Triad.

[jmtunafish]

1 hour ago, PHofKS said:

From the River North site, Amazon would literally be within walking distance of, not only Germantown via a pedestrian bridge, but also up and coming Cleveland Park  and even East Nashville for the more ambitious souls.  At the least, they would be a short shuttle, Uber or bike ride away for home for 10's of thousands of their employees. That's better for employees and the planet than shipping them to some distant 'burb, even by train.

What other city brings that to the table?

On the bright side, if this isn't enough to lure Amazon, it should at least grab the attention of other corporations looking to expand or relocate. 

It's fun to see how far Nashville has come in the last 20 or so years.  We've gone from being kind of a backwater, Hee-Haw version of Vegas to competing with the big boys in business and industry.  For those of us who have loved Nashville all these years, this is validation that we really are one of the most dynamic and most attractive cities in the country.  And we do it all with the best hot chicken and biscuits in the world.

[MidTenn1]

49 minutes ago, markhollin said:

^ ^ ^ Great map, PHoKS.  Additionally, there is a HUGE amount of area for residential growth just 5 minutes to the north along West Trinity Lane and the White's Creek Pike corridor.  And, of course, all the development along Dickerson Pike corridor, Chestnut Hill/WeHo, Charlotte corridor, and McKissack Park are within just a few miles as well. 

And, as you mentioned, directly across the river to the west you have those blocks and blocks of potential apartment/condo developments still empty in Germantown and all around the ballpark.  Could easily be another 4,000 units in those slots as well.  I can see that whole area becoming a mini Barcelona with block after block of 4-6 story dwellings, most with street activation.  : )

..or 'Amazonia' !!!      

[Hey_Hey]

You could also add in the Music City Star commuter rail line. Couple that with an aerial tram or a high frequency extension of the Music City Circuit from Riverfront Station to River North, and there is a perfectly viable mass transit option for those living east of downtown.  On paper, Nashville already has mass transit, and in reality it wouldn't take much (in the grand scheme of things) to upgrade the Music City Star to a Metra quality line from Lebanon to downtown.  When we're looking at incentive packages in the $5-10 billion range, spending $200 million on making commuter rail truly effective is a pittance. 

This could be the perfect utilization for aerial trams/gondolas.  Connecting River North/Amazon to Germantown with a half mile route and another aerial tram to Riverfront station with a 1.5 mile line would be very compelling IMO.  They would bypass traffic and there wouldn't be the added cost of additional bridge spans across the Cumberland. 

[Binbin98]

On 10/4/2017 at 6:22 AM, Hey_Hey said:

You could also add in the Music City Star commuter rail line. Couple that with an aerial tram or a high frequency extension of the Music City Circuit from Riverfront Station to River North, and there is a perfectly viable mass transit option for those living east of downtown.  On paper, Nashville already has mass transit, and in reality it wouldn't take much (in the grand scheme of things) to upgrade the Music City Star to a Metra quality line from Lebanon to downtown.  When we're looking at incentive packages in the $5-10 billion range, spending $200 million on making commuter rail truly effective is a pittance. 

This could be the perfect utilization for aerial trams/gondolas.  Connecting River North/Amazon to Germantown with a half mile route and another aerial tram to Riverfront station with a 1.5 mile line would be very compelling IMO.  They would bypass traffic and there wouldn't be the added cost of additional bridge spans across the Cumberland. 

This plus the airport plan is good for amazon because it shows them that Nashville at least has a solid plan in place for expansion of transit facilities to accommodate the growth. If I was amazon, this river north site would fit my criteria 100%, and although Nashville's tech scene isn't that good, that's really the only downside of Nashville's chances with landing amazon (plus Amazon isn't entirely based around tech, logistics help too)

[Flatrock]

3 hours ago, Binbin98 said:

and although Nashville's tech scene isn't that good,

Just curious what sources you are basing this statement on? I ask this because there are multiple sources stating that Nashville is, in fact, an up and coming tech 'player'.  I'd posit Nashville is well-situated for substantial tech growth, so quite the opposite of - "isn't that good".

One such example; this article from FORBES in the spring of 2017 - ranking us as #7 in the country out of the 43 largest MSA's. The key word here is "creating".  Cities ahead of us like San Fran, San Jose, Austin, Charlotte, Indy and Raliegh Durham are creating lots of jobs with a healthy existing tech scene. Some cities in the study appear to be counter-intuitive (Detroit). Some cities (San Fran and others) are losing lots of tech jobs even while creating them - to lower tax/cost cities (like to Nashville, for example).

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joelkotkin/2017/03/16/technology-jobs-2017-san-francisco-charlotte-detroit/

The Cities Creating The Most Tech Jobs 2017

7. Nashville-Davidson-Murfreesboro-Franklin, Tennessee

Tech Industry Job Growth, 2006-16: 75.6%

Number of Tech Jobs, 2016: 20,828

STEM Occupation Growth, 2006-16: 13.7%

Number of STEM Jobs, 2016: 40,042

Methodology

To determine the metro areas that are generating the most tech jobs, we turned to Mark Schill of PraxisStrategy Group. Half the ranking is based on employment growth at companies in high-technology industries, such as software and engineering services. (This includes all workers at these companies, some of whom, like janitors receptionists, do not perform tech functions). Half is based on changes in the number of workers classified as having STEM occupations (science, technology, engineering and mathematics-related jobs). This captures the many tech workers in industries not primarily associated with technology, such as finance and business services. We ranked the 53 largest U.S. metropolitan statistical areas by employment growth in tech industries and STEM occupations from 2006 to 2016, as well as for their more near-term growth from 2014 to 2016 to give credit for current momentum. Data is sourced from EMSI.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Flatrock

[Hey_Hey]

I many ways, HCA is as much of a "tech" company as Amazon.  People equate Amazon with "tech" because its public face is a website, but the tech really enables them to perform their true function which is retail and logistics.  HCA, similarly, has tech that allows them to perform their true function of healthcare delivery.  Facebook, Twitter, and Nvidia are more pure "tech" companies than Amazon will ever be, and Amazon will increasingly become less "tech" and more "real world" as time goes on.   Amazon is really a merger of FedEx and Walmart.   Heck, Amazon has their own airline at this point in addition to their own grocery store chain.

[Pdt2f]

^ He wasn't the only one, I also was under the impression we didn't have much of a tech industry. No sources, just general feeling. This has been illuminating, @Flatrock, thanks!

[Binbin98]

im not saying nashville's tech scene is horrible, im just pointing out it's not as strong (or well renowned at least) as say Austin, Pittsburgh, or Raleigh. Also I want to point out that amazon isn't all tech, it also is based around logistics and is branching out into other fields, so nashville not being as big a tech Hub as some other cities isn't make or break

[MLBrumby]

Good point about tech in the HC sector... and media also has its share of tech up there. However, I really think Vandy could do a lot more in both technology and media (Communications).  But they are still beholden to the same basic curriculum they had when I was there 25 years ago.  Not everyone goes straight to law, medical or business school.  

[Flatrock]

Just now, Binbin98 said:

im not saying nashville's tech scene is horrible, im just pointing out it's not as strong (or well renowned at least) as say Austin, Pittsburgh, or Raleigh. Also I want to point out that amazon isn't all tech, it also is based around logistics and is branching out into other fields, so nashville not being as big a tech Hub as some other cities isn't make or break

I gotcha. I absolutely understand that Amazon is not all tech - as I think most of us do. Hopefully, our strength in logistics and other needed fields of expertise/endeavor in the region - will give us a shot at this thing.  I still believe we're  long-odds, but I also believe we truly do have a shot.

[SoundScan]

57 minutes ago, Hey_Hey said:

I many ways, HCA is as much of a "tech" company as Amazon.  People equate Amazon with "tech" because its public face is a website, but the tech really enables them to perform their true function which is retail and logistics.  HCA, similarly, has tech that allows them to perform their true function of healthcare delivery.  Facebook, Twitter, and Nvidia are more pure "tech" companies than Amazon will ever be, and Amazon will increasingly become less "tech" and more "real world" as time goes on.   Amazon is really a merger of FedEx and Walmart.   Heck, Amazon has their own airline at this point in addition to their own grocery store chain.

Let's not get crazy here. Amazon is the world's largest cloud services provider; they have a massive technology hardware division with Kindle, Fire, Echo, and other devices; they have a massive media content delivery division with Prime Video; huge R&D in AI and machine learning; Alexa voice services; and on and on. I realize many people associate Amazon with online shopping as that's where they started, but the website is not what's driving their massive growth. Amazon is absolutely a "tech" company because they use technology to disrupt traditional markets. HCA is not even in the same ballpark.

[smeagolsfree]

Agree about Vandy's  curriculum. The could do so much more at the school. I would venture to say that one of the local universities needs a good Hospitality program, giving the number of jobs n that field here.

I would also kill to have a culinary school here too.

But more tech jobs  training will be a must as technology pushes the envelope and these school need to get on board and fast.

[Hey_Hey]

1 hour ago, SoundScan said:

 HCA is not even in the same ballpark.

My point is not to say that Amazon isn't heavy in tech. My point is that, at this point, tech is nowhere near the biggest piece of their business.  In that way it is similar to a company like HCA. HCA specializes in healthcare delivery, but to do that they are very heavily involved in tech to support the core business.  Just compare Amazon to Google (which I think everyone agrees is much more tech centric): Google had annual revenues of $72 billion in 2016 and has 72,000 employees.  Amazon had $136 billion in revenue and currently has ~350,000 employees.  Amazon doesn't have an additional 278,000 employees that are all working on software and tech gadgets.  Those employees are working in the logistics side of the business as well as the retail and customer service side. Amazon now even has TV and movie production in house.  Amazon web services makes up only 7.5% of total revenue for the company (although it does make up a majority of profits) and the amazon prime subscription service provided only 1.4% of revenue.  The vast majority of their revenue comes from their retail side.

Clearly, Amazon has tons of experience in tech. However, at the rate they are growing they could fill HQ2 with 50,000 employees just to support their retail and logistics side. And that's my point. I don't think Amazon has to have a city that has a deep tech bench because going forward they will increasingly spend more and more resources on non tech things.  I think that is why a city like Nashville actually has a chance. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by Hey_Hey