Scribe

Charlotte Parks - the big picture...

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13 hours ago, 11 HouseBZ said:

They say it's just for residents but yeah, Ima be there too. 

We have friends that live in a neighborhood that has access to the 4-mile creek greenway, But in the neighborhood they have a kids park.

Well, when we walk the greenway, we will stop by their kids park (without our friends) and no one has ever told me that we can't.

Now if you show up with a bottle of whiskey and no kids, I am pretty certain someone will call the cops on you!

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16 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Just got back from Atlanta, and boy are we woefully behind on greenspace.

I wish we had a signature, large scale park in proximity to one of the urban/commercial centers.  Piedmont park is amazing and wish we could have it.  Need somewhere we can have a "music midtown" type event.  

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14 minutes ago, EllAyyDub said:

I wish we had a signature, large scale park in proximity to one of the urban/commercial centers.  Piedmont park is amazing and wish we could have it.  Need somewhere we can have a "music midtown" type event.  

Everything strung together by the Belt line is just incredible. 

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35 minutes ago, EllAyyDub said:

I wish we had a signature, large scale park in proximity to one of the urban/commercial centers.  Piedmont park is amazing and wish we could have it.  Need somewhere we can have a "music midtown" type event.  

Independence Park is pretty sweet.  17258.33205.png.b5447a3823e2c1f074aeda4ae85c6b2d.png

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32 minutes ago, EllAyyDub said:

I wish we had a signature, large scale park in proximity to one of the urban/commercial centers.  Piedmont park is amazing and wish we could have it.  Need somewhere we can have a "music midtown" type event.  

I think there could be an opportunity with Silver Line development, but probably would need to start the actual lobbying ASAP.

Take Independence Park in Elizabeth:

  • roughly 20 acres existing park ( https://www.mecknc.gov/ParkandRec/Parks/ParksByRegion/Documents/independencepk-1.pdf )
  • add Memorial Stadium and Grady Cole Center surrounding land to it (Meck County owns it)
  • There is land across 7th that Meck County already owns as well -- take over the entire block from Charllotetowne Ave to Kings Dr.
  • Take over all the surface lots around Memorial (work with CPCC)

All that will get you roughly ~45 acres (not huge BUT)

BUT... it connects to the Little Sugar Creek Greenway --- and that is what has the potential to make this really special -- don't forget that pedestrian/bike connectivity bridge across that massive I-277 US-74 portion is in play as well.

My rough markup on Google Maps.

image.thumb.png.548bae251150022bbba811d4d7b19a62.png

Since I am on it, that Duke sub-station  (see map with red X below) is 5 acres, you get that moved (pipe-dream) and you have some amazing connectivity to Thompson and Elizabeth Parks...

image.thumb.png.ab8f36c0a920d50b057d9b8097f016ff.png

@Bikeguy great minds... :tw_tounge_wink:

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57 minutes ago, EllAyyDub said:

I wish we had a signature, large scale park in proximity to one of the urban/commercial centers.

You live in Chantilly, I am curious about your thoughts about Independence Park.

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@ricky_davis_fan_21 any chance you could write up an Agenda or CharlotteFive (better yet, both site with same content) and call for a response by reader?

Specifically on the Independence Park idea, and connecting it to the Little Sugar Creek Greenway via Memorial Stadium and converting the County owned land to expand the park.

Edited by Scribe

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1 hour ago, Scribe said:

You live in Chantilly, I am curious about your thoughts about Independence Park.

It's fine but I prefer Chantilly Park (spoiled, I know...).  My real desire is for a massive 100+ acre contiguous, centrally located, urban park.  What you have laid out is probably the most realistic way of getting close to that.  My muse, mentioned above, got its start like 150 years ago so we are behind the eight ball to say the least.

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I always felt that Martin Luther King Park was severely underutilized considering it's connected to the Greenway to uptown, Seversville Park, Frazier Park and an easy walk/jog/bike from uptown. It's 29 acres without adding in Seversville (11 acres) or Frazier Park (12 acres). 

image.png.cfc1af503896de09f2bae73b78667273.png

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4 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Everything strung together by the Belt line is just incredible. 

Its RAPIDLY changing the real estate market in the city. First to the east and now to the South and West of Downtown, a massive amount of density and gentrification. I would dare say the largest urban revitalization in the country.

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I think we missed the boat on a giant central park (save some radical action on the NS yard in Northend or criminalizing golf and seizing Charlotte Country Club for a "People's Park'). But, as said above,  I do think Charlotte could create some remarkable linear parks which connect to greenspace like Freedom and MLK parks. The 'trick' is to create continuous paths rather than our current disjointed BS (see the  map two posts up).

LSC's connections to Freedom and Cordilia Parks are a good model for what else could be developed (although the hospital section of LSC could use some improvements). Stewart Creek would come close to this if the uptown end were better. Creating some public use space in (or on the ground of) BoA stadium (see Petco Park in San Diego) would also be huge. It would be relatively easy to extend the greenway along the P&N to all the way to Hoskins / Thomasboro if deliveries to the cement plant have stopped.

The big problems I see are: 

  • A good route east. Independence park is a good start but using the CSX right of way towards Randolph road park would be a game changer (but CSX will never allow it). 
  • The lack of a green destination off the rail trail around Scaleybark (breweries don't count and Southside park feels very far away with our current infrastructure)
  • Finding a way to tie Bryant Park into uptown -- the views here are the best in town and it is incredibly underutilzed.
  • A route NW of uptown is also missing. Using CSX (and the cemetery) would be great up to Five Points Park  but also impossible.  Connections from Five Points to MLK and to Washington Heights (along Stewart Creek) would be easy to add.
  • Tryon HIlls / Double Oaks????
  • Frazier Park feels like wasted space to me. I just can get past the road noise.
  • Uptown connectivity for all of these -- an Indianapolis Cultural Trail approach could make it work. Be sure to provide some well design means of 'renting' bikes to tourists to take advantage of the routes and serve as a marketing device (dockless appears to be fading fast and bcycle does not appear to be expanding at all)

IMO the holy grail of Charlotte Greenspace would be decommissioning 277 and converting it into our own mini beltline.

Everybody always says that our weather is a big reason for our growth, we should really design the city in a way that takes advantage of that.

Edited by kermit
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3 hours ago, Scribe said:

I think there could be an opportunity with Silver Line development, but probably would need to start the actual lobbying ASAP.

Take Independence Park in Elizabeth:

  • roughly 20 acres existing park ( https://www.mecknc.gov/ParkandRec/Parks/ParksByRegion/Documents/independencepk-1.pdf )
  • add Memorial Stadium and Grady Cole Center surrounding land to it (Meck County owns it)
  • There is land across 7th that Meck County already owns as well -- take over the entire block from Charllotetowne Ave to Kings Dr.
  • Take over all the surface lots around Memorial (work with CPCC)

All that will get you roughly ~45 acres (not huge BUT)

BUT... it connects to the Little Sugar Creek Greenway --- and that is what has the potential to make this really special -- don't forget that pedestrian/bike connectivity bridge across that massive I-277 US-74 portion is in play as well.

My rough markup on Google Maps.

image.thumb.png.548bae251150022bbba811d4d7b19a62.png

Since I am on it, that Duke sub-station  (see map with red X below) is 5 acres, you get that moved (pipe-dream) and you have some amazing connectivity to Thompson and Elizabeth Parks...

image.thumb.png.ab8f36c0a920d50b057d9b8097f016ff.png

@Bikeguy great minds... :tw_tounge_wink:

I agree the city desperately needs more green space and in particular needs a premier large park that can be a central space for major events etc.  Also, I live RIGHT next to independence park and love it, but...

This idea would make it so there are a lot of little parks near each other, not actually connected.  Hawthorne and Charlottetown break up the 3 current sections pretty explicitly.  Hawthorne is less busy now because of the street car, but it still very much feels like 2 separate parks close to each other.  Charlottetown is basically a highway (though there are apparently tunnels under it which connect the two sides, but aren't functional for pedestrians or anything right now).  Same goes for the proposed additions -- Kings Drive etc would separate all of this.  This is not to say I don't think park space here would be valuable, just that it wouldn't really give us a premier large park.

Also, there is currently a redevelopment of Independence Park which is in progress right now, but the part that is furthest along is Memorial Stadium.  

 

Wouldn't a total redevelopment of North Tryon in uptown (Grady Cole etc) go a lot further to giving us a premier park?  That space is actually in uptown and could revitalize a not great part of the city.  The streets east of Tryon and north of 7th are pretty dead even during peak times so could easily be closed for a continuous park.  Most of that land is currently surface lots or grady cole.  Some of the land is under development, but I think a public/private partnership where some of the land on the edges are sold to developers to build apartments/condos etc while contributing money to the park.  I used to live in Skyhouse facing this direction and it is pretty depressing how little development there is there.  

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1 minute ago, NYtoCLT said:

The streets east of Tryon and north of 7th are pretty dead even during peak times so could easily be closed for a continuous park

That is LevineLand** so, it's basically already an ugly and not very usable park and will be like that for the next half-century...

Unless Levine decides to donate a lot of that land with Deed Restrictions for the land to be used as a park, Uptown is not happening.

6 minutes ago, NYtoCLT said:

Hawthorne and Charlottetown break up the 3 current sections pretty explicitly.  Hawthorne is less busy now because of the street car, but it still very much feels like 2 separate parks close to each other. 

Yes that is a known issue, I was really ticked they did not put in an underpass tunnel beneath Hawthorne as part of the streetcar work in this phase. That should have been a priority to have 2 tunnels so that you can make a loop.

But it is also not an issue that cannot be fixed.

The "nice" thing about my proposal, is that 95%+ of the land covered is already owned by the county or city. Now we need to get the Meck County Parks dept to design over or under passes to connect all these sections (the greenway helps along I-277)

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2 minutes ago, Scribe said:

That is LevineLand** so, it's basically already an ugly and not very usable park and will be like that for the next half-century...

Unless Levine decides to donate a lot of that land with Deed Restrictions for the land to be used as a park, Uptown is not happening.

If it's for park land, eminent domain is a powerful tool.  It at least serves as a threat/stick to get people to work with you.  Grady Cole is the largest portion of this land between the main building and the annex which the county(?) already owns.  If the City wanted to get it done it could move people to do it.

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2 minutes ago, NYtoCLT said:

Grady Cole

I think you mean Hal Marshall (?)

Edited by kermit

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1 minute ago, kermit said:

I think you mean Hal Marshall (?)

Indeed I did.  My mind must have still been on Independence and ugly buildings have a way of blending together.  Apologies.

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4 hours ago, Scribe said:

...

image.thumb.png.ab8f36c0a920d50b057d9b8097f016ff.png

We actually have a good example to solve the connectivity issue... in the map above there is already a tunnel that connects the greenway under Kings Dr to the Grady Cole center and Memorial Stadium parcels.

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8 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Just got back from Atlanta, and boy are we woefully behind on greenspace.

I find this ironic since many Atlantans think think they are behind on greenspace.  Currently, the Beltline has just opened a new trail segment, and it is starting to enter the finish line for completing the trail. Also, the city is currently in the phase of building the biggest park in the city with 280 acres. Centennial Olympic Park is also being expanded by a little bit too. Even with all of these, many people still feel there is quite a ways to go (which there still is).

I just found it odd how the perspective from one city to another can change.

Edited by Ric0_0
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34 minutes ago, norm21499 said:

Written by Diedre Laird .... wonder who she is on this site? Lol

I was wondreing the same damn thing.

 

Will the real Diedre Laird please stand up?

Edited by ricky_davis_fan_21
  • Haha 1

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