Amazon HQ2

[elrodvt]

MD $5B. Damn...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/a-5-billion-carrot-larry-hogans-historic-offer-to-win-amazon-hq2

[KJHburg]

Well the Business Journal did some digging and prodding with Amazon and got this answer about why Charlotte did not make the cut: basically the number  of tech employees.  

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2018/01/22/amazon-availability-of-tech-talent-hq2-short-list.html?ana=e_clt_bn_exclusive&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1516672220&j=79578001

Edited January 23, 2018 by KJHburg

[QCxpat]

Andrew Dunn, Editor-in-Chief at Charlotte Agenda, says that "Charlotte's leaders owe us answers on Amazon miss."

Link to Agenda story:  https://www.charlotteagenda.com/114654/charlottes-leaders-owe-us-answers-amazon-miss/

[cjd5050]

34 minutes ago, QCxpat said:

Andrew Dunn, Editor-in-Chief at Charlotte Agenda, says that "Charlotte's leaders owe us answers on Amazon miss."

Link to Agenda story:  https://www.charlotteagenda.com/114654/charlottes-leaders-owe-us-answers-amazon-miss/

Tariq Bokhari had similar comments in the CO a few days ago - http://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article195646884.html#navlink=SecList

His tone hinted at what Dunn asked bluntly in that did Charlotte put out a poor quality bid that was made from people who make a lot of money pitching the region.  That question is valid I think.  Charlotte does not have Hughe and Ed selling the city so the new sales team should be measured.  That said, it's far cry from trying to follow Detroit.  Who looks like the unpopular kid home for prom asking why they didn't get asked by someone on the homecoming court to the dance.  

What's surprising to me is nobody seems to be talking about that in prestige and size of CS students in Charlotte compared to Raleigh.  It was pointed out here by armchair types as being a key deficiency but the lack of commentary on solving that, not basic boot camps or initiatives, is strangely being ignored.  

[Tyrone Wiggum]

4 hours ago, QCxpat said:

Andrew Dunn, Editor-in-Chief at Charlotte Agenda, says that "Charlotte's leaders owe us answers on Amazon miss."

 

Answers seems kinda obvious, by proxy:  "Amazon told Detroit that it was primarily a lack of a talent pool...."

Nashville, Columbus, Austin, and Pittsburgh have major research universities literally downtown; IU and Purdue are less than 45" from downtown Indy;  Raleigh is unique for a city of its size in terms of academic horsepower.

Charlotte has a 4th tier university that's a few points from being unranked.

I bring this up for two reasons: 1) For all the hemming and hawing from the city, ya can't have a large university as an afterthought on the outskirts of town and clutch your pearls when you're overlooked by a company incredibly dependent on brainpower, and; 2) This will happen again, and sooner than later, so what's the plan going forward from the legislature and/or the city elders?

 

 

 

 

 

[videtur quam contuor]

Minor point: Indy boy here and IU and Purdue are certainly more than an hour drive from Indianapolis center city. IU is all old time Highway 37 and every town is a time trap on the way, including Hindustan. Really, Hindustan. Indiana towns had a thing for names from exotic locations.

[Dale]

35 minutes ago, Tyrone Wiggum said:

Answers seems kinda obvious, by proxy:  "Amazon told Detroit that it was primarily a lack of a talent pool...."

Nashville, Columbus, Austin, and Pittsburgh have major research universities literally downtown; IU and Purdue are less than 45" from downtown Indy;  Raleigh is unique for a city of its size in terms of academic horsepower.

Charlotte has a 4th tier university that's a few points from being unranked.

I bring this up for two reasons: 1) For all the hemming and hawing from the city, ya can't have a large university as an afterthought on the outskirts of town and clutch your pearls when you're overlooked by a company incredibly dependent on brainpower, and; 2) This will happen again, and sooner than later, so what's the plan going forward from the legislature and/or the city elders?

 

 

 

 

 

Takeaway: don't let the NCGA rest until they open a Harvard here like pronto!

[kermit]

42 minutes ago, Tyrone Wiggum said:

2) This will happen again, and sooner than later, so what's the plan going forward from the legislature and/or the city elders?

The city doesn't fund UNCC nor is it in a position to endow its own University (City College of Charlotte?).  UNCC has always been a second class citizen in the UNC System and that is unlikely to change as long as  Chapel Hill and State are pulling money from the same bucket. IMO the best bet is to work hard to make Charlotte and the Triangle into the same labor market, I think that can be done with much better intercity rail service and transit at both ends. The pieces are already in place, but the Piedmont cities need to learn how to market themselves as a single unit rather than competing entities.

Edited January 23, 2018 by kermit

[Scribe]

I agree that UNC Charlotte is about 10 year behind, but what Phil Dubois has been doing is working, albeit slowly:

Quote

At 46, Mukherjee started over. She moved her lab, along with three associates, from Mayo to UNCC. And despite her reservations, she came brimming with ideas for experiments, looking for ways to outsmart tumors and possibly cure cancer.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/living/health-family/article53923425.html

CO article does not mention it, but the magazine that I originally saw this in, did explain that UNC Charlotte ponied up for the proper lab for her. Meaning - it was not just "oh, I am going to UNC Charlotte"...

Starting a true research university takes a LOT of effort and money. But once your (school) name starts to popup in peer-reviewed magazines  the recruitment effort decreases.

I just hope UNC Charlotte can keep up the effort and land similar successes in other departments as well.

[DMann]

27 minutes ago, kermit said:

The city doesn't fund UNCC nor is it in a position to endow its own University (City College of Charlotte?).  UNCC has always been a second class citizen in the UNC System and that is unlikely to change as long as  Chapel Hill and State are pulling money from the same bucket. IMO the best bet is to work hard to make Charlotte and the Triangle into the same labor market, I think that can be done with much better intercity rail service and transit at both ends. The pieces are already in place, but the Piedmont cities need to learn how to market themselves as a single unit rather than competing entities.

Bingo!

[QCxpat]

21 hours ago, kermit said:

IMO the best bet is to work hard to make Charlotte and the Triangle into the same labor market, I think that can be done with much better intercity rail service and transit at both ends. The pieces are already in place, but the Piedmont cities need to learn how to market themselves as a single unit rather than competing entities.

Agree with @kermit that Raleigh and Charlotte should try to cooperate, but it seems doubtful that the historic rivalry and animosity between the 2 will end anytime soon.  One of the finest recent academic works about Charlotte contains the following put-down made by the Raleigh News and Observer:   

"Charlotte is overwhelmingly ... average," charged the Raleigh News and Observer in 1987.   "It is a fine, rich, upstanding city.  It just isn't much of a fine, rich, upstanding Southern city.  It has all the quaint Southern appeal of Des Moines."  And then the ultimate insult from the cross-state rival, pinpointing the greatest fear of all:  "Charlotte's raging inferiority complex, as witnessed by its overwhelming need to boost its image, comes about because nobody else pays much attention to it."   See Graves, Wm. and Smith, Heather A., eds., Charlotte, NC, The Global Evolution of a New South City ("Searching For Respect: From 'New South' to 'World Class' at the Crossroads of the Carolinas," p. 25), (Athens, Univ. of Georgia Press, 2010).

Link:  https://books.google.com/books/about/Charlotte_NC.html?id=Ji5mow2MXY0C&printsec=frontcover&source=kp_read_button#v=onepage&q&f=false  

Don’t think this old lovers’ quarrel is going away anytime soon.

Edited January 24, 2018 by QCxpat

[CLT2014]

Honestly, if I was Amazon I wouldn't have included Charlotte either. I known we all wanted a participation trophy, but Amazon didn't release this "Top 20" for the purposes of a participation trophy. It is highly strategic. By going to a Top 20 and PUBLICLY announcing that Top 20, states start getting nervous and doing things.  More states cause more nervous behavior. Maryland is rushing to get Amazon up to $5 billion in incentives and programs, etc... I suspect some other states may try to top Maryland now and enrich their offer. We already know New Jersey is at $ 7 billion. No surprise either location is in the final hunt. 

Raleigh is the preferable choice in North Carolina. It has more tech talent, more open land to develop an HQ, the universities, and it doesn't have as many huge corporations that make their mark on the city. Here in Charlotte, Amazon would be competing to turn that "Bank town" image into "Amazon town." In the Triangle, much easier to make it Amazon Town.

In addition, Charlotte would be wasting a perfectly good spot for a stalking horse for incentive negotiations if Raleigh is preferable to Charlotte in Amazon's eyes. At the end of the day, Raleigh and Charlotte will have the same state incentives (which the Governor admits our incentives to Amazon won't be the highest). Tennessee, Indiana, Ohio, etc... probably offered some REALLY good incentives to help in the negotiations. Take Columbus. Maybe Amazon is like "Yeah, 0% chance of going to Columbus, but they offered a $6 billion incentive package. Keep them in and we can drop the word to our top three locations that they need to up their incentives and meet us in the middle."

Edited January 23, 2018 by CLT2014

[KJHburg]

Now some cities like Denver are saying not sure if they really want HQ2 and they are in the top 20!   https://www.denverpost.com/2018/01/23/colorado-hickenlooper-amazon-hq2-denver/

[Nick2]

Anyone want to make a guess on the size of the incentive package NC will offer?

[CLT2014]

5 minutes ago, Nick2 said:

Anyone want to make a guess on the size of the incentive package NC will offer?

$2 billion - $2.5 billion.

http://www.wral.com/cooper-nc-s-incentives-won-t-be-biggest-amazon-s-offered/17271140/

 Gov. Roy Cooper said Thursday that North Carolina's incentive package won't be the sweetest offer Amazon gets from the 20 finalists the company named Thursday in its quest for a second headquarters.

The goal is to be competitive enough to get a seat at the table, though, Cooper said, then have the the Raleigh area's livability and other attributes win the day.

"I know our incentives won't be the greatest compared to some of the other states," the governor told reporters Thursday. "But it will be competitive, and if we're competitive, then we can sell what we have."

Edited January 24, 2018 by CLT2014

[Nick2]

If the incentives are that low in comparison, I think it'll kill Raleigh's chances. They're already kind of a dark horse of the bids.

[deleted]

21 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Now some cities like Denver are saying not sure if they really want HQ2 and they are in the top 20!   https://www.denverpost.com/2018/01/23/colorado-hickenlooper-amazon-hq2-denver/

Ha!  Good for them.  Now that we are a spurned suitor, I'd like to see more of this (just out of bitterness).  I almost cancelled my Prime but I like Amazon too much to do it.  

[kermit]

Indiana is considering rescending its legislative ban on light rail to improve its chances for HQ2.

https://amp.indystar.com/amp/1058922001

[Matthew.Brendan]

Legislative ban on light rail... that is amazing. 

[elrodvt]

^It could very easily have happened here don't you think? 

[Scribe]

Another example of UNC Charlotte getting recognized and building research creds:

On 1/23/2018 at 6:04 PM, Scribe said:

I agree that UNC Charlotte is about 10 year behind, but what Phil Dubois has been doing is working, albeit slowly:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/living/health-family/article53923425.html

CO article does not mention it, but the magazine that I originally saw this in, did explain that UNC Charlotte ponied up for the proper lab for her. Meaning - it was not just "oh, I am going to UNC Charlotte"...

Starting a true research university takes a LOT of effort and money. But once your (school) name starts to popup in peer-reviewed magazines  the recruitment effort decreases.

I just hope UNC Charlotte can keep up the effort and land similar successes in other departments as well.

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Scribe

[RALNATIVE]

Want to know the real reason Charlotte didn't make the cut?

Here's your answer: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article196226944.html

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by RALNATIVE

[southslider]

^It wasn't the corny video. It was the inclusion of sites like Shelby. When the DC metro has 3 of the 20 finalists, it's clear Amazon didn't want to see multi-site bids.

But Charlotte is too nice to pitch just Gateway and North End connected by transit and greenway. And so the #1 city for attracting Millenials didn't even know how to pitch urban sites.

 

[kermit]

Interesting CBJ piece on Ballantyne's HQ2 pitch. Talks about densification, mixing land uses and barely touches on transit (a BRT spine was aparently proposed rather than LRT extension). 

One of the things that struck me was that when developers and ED folks round here use the phrase 'quality of life' the are only talking about SFH in big lots in the burbs. Its a very generationally and regionally specific perspective and. I am only just now figuring out that is is a thinly-veiled anti-urban statement. 

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2018/01/25/from-zero-to-60-how-proposal-for-amazon-hq2-got.html

Edited January 26, 2018 by kermit

[elrodvt]

When do you think the city will reprogram the "hey amazon CLT is prime" scrolls on the buses?

Sort of a poster child for not being on top of things.

 

Also, in the article Kermit posted, I don't get what "rules" made it necessary to submit 22 sites while other cities did not? Sounds pretty odd.

Edited January 26, 2018 by elrodvt