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6 hours ago, pgsinger said:

Harrisburg is the capitol of PA...must be a UNCC grad... 

Sorry...I had to do it...I promise I am not really an A$$hole.  Obviously a simple mistake.  I have plenty of highly successful friends that went to UNCC.  And we all remember the no class classes at UNC...  

I didn’t mean Pittsburg was a Capitol. But my wording set me up perfect for it. So props to you for taking advantage of it.

 

That was just a group of bids I don’t take seriously 

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19 hours ago, rancenc said:

Out of curiosity why is this thread even active since Charlotte has been eliminated from this site selection process..:tw_flushed:

Retitle the thread to make it a post-Amazon debrief/reflection. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it's constructive for Charlotte, and doesn't denigrate anybody still in the running.

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It might.  Boston makes the most sense, followed by DC.  Both of those cities, however, are very expensive.

Atlanta and Chicago are the logical second tier.   They're cheap and have great universities.  However, both suffer from absurd traffic, and Chicago's winters are brutal.

Raleigh has amazing universities.  It's cheap.  It has relatively light traffic.  It's two hours from the beach and has a nice climate.  The RTP also has very deep math, tech, and science roots.

It initially was a dark horse, but its advantages seem clear.

Edited by SydneyCarton
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6 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

It might.  Boston makes the most sense, followed by DC.  Both of those cities, however, are very expensive.

Atlanta and Chicago are the logical second tier.   They're cheap and have great universities.  However, both suffer from absurd traffic, and Chicago's winters are brutal.

Raleigh has amazing universities.  It's cheap.  It has relatively light traffic.  It's two hours from the beach and has a nice climate.  The RTP also has very deep math, tech, and science roots.

It initially was a dark horse, but its advantages seem clear.

It'll be interesting to see how much they end up factoring cost-of-living, since Seattle's is comparable to Boston's and not that much cheaper than DC's. But OTOH, it's hard to beat RTP's combo of climate and proximity not just to beaches, but to mountains.

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I think that cost of living and quality of life will be very important.  They want their employees to have a nice life with a $125,000 salary -- not struggle.  It’s hard enough to get by in Seattle these days, and I think that Amazon would like to offer its employees a place that provides an easy life for families.

Also, the RTP has amazing public schools.  In Atlanta and Chicago, you'd have to move very far outside of the city to get good schools, which, in turn, results in a miserable commute.  Commuting thirty miles from Alpharetta or Suwanee into the Gulch every day would be miserable.   Commuting seven miles from Cary, by contrast, would be very easy.

Edited by SydneyCarton
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I think there is a little problem of trying to tip toe and say nice little things about Raleigh considering their posters might see this and be offended. Maybe it’s home state sentiment. 

 

But im Not seeing a competitive advantage Raleigh has over Dallas, Atlanta, Indianapolis, Columbus, Nashville, Miami, Denver, Austin, Pittsburgh.  Nashville is a strong competitor to the Carolina cities. Though Charlotte killed its MLS bid, Raleigh was super well prepared, had one of the strongest minor league clubs or something, rebranding, etc etc and to my surprise, pesky Nashville swept in. 

 

Im not trying to crap on Raleigh by any means, but I take the bid as seriously as I do Indianapolis’s bid. Plus there are entire other cities like LA, Chicago and Toronto that too are in the running. Not sure geography is on the side of LA, but all were chosen so. 

 

None of the other cities, like Houston, Minneapolis, Detroit, Cleveland, Cinnci, Orlando, Tampa, etc should be too concerned with not being included on the list. 

Edited by AirNostrumMAD
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IMO, when you are looking at building a campus with 50,000 people at peak build out, you need a large metro area, not a mid-size one. Amazon has outgrown the Seattle metro, which has 3.7 million people. I'll be surprised if they pick a metro much smaller than Seattle because they will run into the same issues with having to largely recruit outside of the metro area to fill vacant positions. 

And while Raleigh has a highly educated population, it is still tiny and raw numbers matter just as much as percentages. There are only ~563,000 people in the ENTIRE Triangle area with a Bachelor degree or higher. Compare that to the Dallas-Fort Worth area has 520,000 people just with a Graduate degree or higher and over 1 million more people than the Triangle with a Bachelor degree or higher. The Seattle area, where Amazon still has to search from numerous other states (especially California) to source talent, has 1.18 million people with a bachelor degree or higher, which is about twice the amount as the Triangle. This is a company that BURNS through people and they have high turnover. All 563,000 bachelor degree or higher degree holders in the Triangle aren't going to be qualified for Amazon and many work in industries outside tech. IMO, there just won't be enough bodies to keep the machine going until the area reaches more than 3 million people. 

To put size in perspective, today's population of the Triangle is right around the same population as the Seattle metro in 1980, 38 years ago.

Edited by CLT2014
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20 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Amazon could make Raleigh, as it made Seattle.  Seattle has mushroomed from nowhere to become one of the US’s top cities.

 

 

 

 

 

Respectfully, Seattle was not nowhere prior to Amazon.  There was a lot great there and several iconic companies before Amazon existed.

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7 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I think there is a little problem of trying to tip toe and say nice little things about Raleigh considering their posters might see this and be offended. Maybe it’s home state sentiment. 

 

But im Not seeing a competitive advantage Raleigh has over Dallas, Atlanta, Indianapolis, Columbus, Nashville, Miami, Denver, Austin, Pittsburgh.  Nashville is a strong competitor to the Carolina cities. Though Charlotte killed its MLS bid, Raleigh was super well prepared, had one of the strongest minor league clubs or something, rebranding, etc etc and to my surprise, pesky Nashville swept in. 

 

Im not trying to crap on Raleigh by any means, but I take the bid as seriously as I do Indianapolis’s bid. Plus there are entire other cities like LA, Chicago and Toronto that too are in the running. Not sure geography is on the side of LA, but all were chosen so. 

 

None of the other cities, like Houston, Minneapolis, Detroit, Cleveland, Cinnci, Orlando, Tampa, etc should be too concerned with not being included on the list. 

I agree with you.  However, I hope we are wrong.  I'd love to see Raleigh get it.  It might be better for us than if we got it in Charlotte.  I'd like to think we'd get some spillover business without the incredible impact on housing costs that could prompt my children to leave for lower cost of living elsewhere.  I think it would be great for the state also (and for local charities and educational institutions).  Might even moderate the GA, which would be good (though I don't hate having one party control the GA and the other the Governor's mansion).

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Anyway, another RTP strength is education.  I've lived in Charlotte and Chapel Hill, and I am VERY impressed with the intellectual environment in the Triangle.  I've met so many people with Ph. Ds and with deep math and science roots.  

There's also a very strong cultural environment.  Duke and UNC host extremely impressive performances, that, in and of themselves, exceed what DPAC or Blumenthal/Belk/Knight offer.  Educationally and culturally, the RTP is like a mini Boston.

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3 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

Amazon could make Raleigh, as it made Seattle.  Seattle has mushroomed from nowhere to become one of the US’s top cities.

I wouldn’t call Seattle pre-amazon nowhere. Metro Seattle was nearly 2.6 million in 1990. Metro Raleigh is currently half of that.

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12 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

Anyway, another RTP strength is education.  I've lived in Charlotte and Chapel Hill, and I am VERY impressed with the intellectual environment in the Triangle.  I've met so many people with Ph. Ds and with deep math and science roots.  

There's also a very strong cultural environment.  Duke and UNC host extremely impressive performances, that, in and of themselves, exceed what DPAC or Blumenthal/Belk/Knight offer.  Educationally and culturally, the RTP is like a mini Boston.

There is also politics to consider.    Amazon and Seattle just went 12 rounds on the idea of a head tax and while Bezos might like his left leaning paper, Amazon operates by and large like the evil corporation that many on the left complain about.  Does Amazon double down on progressive locations or do they put roots in a purple state with a red state government?    If you really want to A/B test your company you need two versions of everything to compare.  

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27 minutes ago, Dale said:

That Amazon would seriously consider suburban locations stands as more evidence that Millennials don't disdain the suburbs any more than their parents do.

too many assumptions in this statement for my comfort.

 

i'd gather very little of this statement is actually true...

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24 minutes ago, Dale said:

That Amazon would seriously consider suburban locations stands as more evidence that Millennials don't disdain the suburbs any more than their parents do.

Not sure I see the correlation.  Amazon wouldn't necessarily go where millennials want to be, they go where it's best for Amazon.  If that means millenials have to commute from urban areas to the suburbs (as many do to work in Ballantyne), many will to work for Amazon.  I don't think the suburbs are dead but in the last 15 years living in cities became much more attractive for a lot of age groups (including empty nesters).

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11 minutes ago, JBS said:

Not sure I see the correlation.  Amazon wouldn't necessarily go where millennials want to be, they go where it's best for Amazon.  If that means millenials have to commute from urban areas to the suburbs (as many do to work in Ballantyne), many will to work for Amazon.  I don't think the suburbs are dead but in the last 15 years living in cities became much more attractive for a lot of age groups (including empty nesters).

But if you want true diversity, not just hanging around with throngs of people, you have to go to the suburbs.

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forget suburbs, think surban living as the affordable option going forward for younger folks.

the lack of housing supply in city centers is everything right now.  demand is sky high but supply is nada, in virtually every city of note out there.    millennials don't want the suburbs.  they are pouring into cities escaping rural trumpism and completely overwhelming the housing stocks, causing prices to go through the roof with newer, more affordable developments outside of the city based on urban transport principles with some sustainable local neighborhood retail popping up.

 

Urban living is as popular as ever, it's just that our cities are full right now with home ownership for the next generations looking to be impossible.  It will be the pop up communities on train lines and such outside of your major city to form newly created urban living areas that will attract so many young people going forward.

 

And those with property in the big city center areas, that's like having a huge chunk of gold in the bank.  the drive the city centers isn't stopping at all.  it's just starting to change how it looks because of housing costs.  don't think for a second that sitting in traffic for hours and hours a week to get to the cul de sac so far from work is really what too many people are looking for in this day. 

 

 

1 minute ago, Dale said:

But if you want true diversity, not just hanging around with throngs of people, you have to go to the suburbs.

whaaaaaaaat?

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1 minute ago, Dale said:

But if you want true diversity, not just hanging around with throngs of people, you have to go to the suburbs.

I don't think the suburbs are more diverse than urban areas.  In fact, even proponents or suburbs don't think that.  I know a lot of people (unfortunately) who live in suburbs because they aren't diverse.  Unless of course you simply mean the diversity of "suburbanites" themselves.  Even that isn't true though because by definition most of them travel to urban areas for work.  There are tons of suburbanites in my Uptown office.  So, I have to unequivocally disagree.

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3 minutes ago, BullDurhamer said:

millennials don't want the suburbs.  they are pouring into cities escaping rural trumpism and completely overwhelming the housing stocks, causing prices to go through the roof with newer, more affordable developments outside of the city based on urban transport principles with some sustainable local neighborhood retail popping up.

Urban living is as popular as ever, it's just that our cities are full right now with home ownership for the next generations looking to be impossible.  It will be the pop up communities on train lines and such outside of your major city to form newly created urban living areas that will attract so many young people going forward.

2

If Millenials are making long-term housing and financial decisions based on 'Trumpism' as you put it (moronic phrase by the way) then they are stupid and don't deserve to own a home.  Although I am sure they will try to create some sort of program that provides it to them...   

Urban living is not a location.  Urban living is a lifestyle.   Urban living can exist anywhere as long as the components are provided for.  Items such as walkability, mixed-use development, land use for residential are what defines urban living.   Urban living is about ones personal footprint based on their personal factors such as where they work, live and play.  Suggesting that center city is the only place where urban living can exist is about as stupid as deciding where to purchase a house based on who occupies the White House.   

But I am pretty sure this is lost on you.

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