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1 minute ago, Durhamite said:

I think you're missing the point.  Most cities, even dense urban cities like NYC are segregated on certain levels whether that be ethnicity, income, race, etc.  Still, there's a certain level of interaction and  co-mingling (parks, transportation, restaurants, etc)  in urbanized city proper areas versus many isolated and bleached suburbs.  We all know urban Charlotte (or urban Sunbelt cities)  aren't urban DC or Philly, but they serve that purpose.  This would be the selling point for Amazon or millennials seeking more interaction/activity/access to people/things and typically a by-product of these areas is proximity to more diverse environments.   This is an urban enthusiast forum so quite naturally it's going bias towards that tone.  I don't think anyone is maligning living in the burbs.  

furthermore, it's been pointed how the burbs are changing.  like i said earlier, an urban/suburban hybrid living style is inevitable with the rising cost of living in city centers and the impossible traffic of suburban life.  surburban areas with "urban" cores with readily accessible transportation options are happening and will only continue to get more popular.

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1 hour ago, BullDurhamer said:

 what's clearly lost on you is that 55% of the country despises trump and every bit of the racism and sexism that comes with it.  a rush to the urban core where progressive values rule is absolutely happening in response to trumpism.  you can whine and say i'm foolish, but that doesn't change the fact.

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This is not lost on me.  I stand by my comment that people making decisions on where they buy a house based on who is in the White House are morons.  You also don't seem to grasp how government works because the 'urban core' is governed by the same body as the suburbs in many places...like Charlotte.  

1 hour ago, BullDurhamer said:

this is the most ignorant thing i've ever read here.

btw, here's my neighborhood.  

https://kdvr.com/2018/05/31/dozens-attend-rally-to-support-coffee-shop-vandalized-with-hateful-message/

because black and white people look different doesnt' make them "divided".

remember, this is urbanplanet.com

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Of course being a different race doesn't automatically divide people.   What you seem unable to grasp is that economic status, by and large, is more divisive than race today.  Now I am not sure you have the depth to actually unpack that but it's true.   Gentrification, which is the fancy way of saying 'progressives are flocking into urban cores because of 'Trumpism', is by definition divisive.  
 

 

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1 hour ago, Durhamite said:

I think you're missing the point.  Most cities, even dense urban cities like NYC are segregated on certain levels whether that be ethnicity, income, race, etc.  Still, there's a certain level of interaction and  co-mingling (parks, transportation, restaurants, etc)  in urbanized city proper areas versus many isolated and bleached suburbs.  We all know urban Charlotte (or urban Sunbelt cities)  aren't urban DC or Philly, but they serve that purpose.  This would be the selling point for Amazon or millennials seeking more interaction/activity/access to people/things and typically a by-product of these areas is proximity to more diverse environments.   This is an urban enthusiast forum so quite naturally it's going bias towards that tone.  I don't think anyone is maligning living in the burbs.  

Really?  You see a lot of lower income people eating dinner at Fig Tree, do you?  Last time I looked, breweries were about as predictable as Waxhaw on a Friday night.   

The point is millennials are all about perception.  Sure it's cool to move into a 'upcoming' neighborhood so you can feel good about yourself.  Even better when you soak in that culture by eating at the local joint that's been there 20 years.  Still does nothing for the lower income people who have lived there all along and can't afford $4 iced coffees or $8 IPAs.  

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5 hours ago, cjd5050 said:

Really?  You see a lot of lower income people eating dinner at Fig Tree, do you?  Last time I looked, breweries were about as predictable as Waxhaw on a Friday night.   

The point is millennials are all about perception.  Sure it's cool to move into a 'upcoming' neighborhood so you can feel good about yourself.  Even better when you soak in that culture by eating at the local joint that's been there 20 years.  Still does nothing for the lower income people who have lived there all along and can't afford $4 iced coffees or $8 IPAs.  

The suburbs are the epitome of perception and "feeling" good about yourself.  Just about everything in life is about perception....what is your point?   Every city is constantly confronted with affordablity challenges as a lot of people (including millennials) desire to live in urban areas that offer a wide variety of accessible amenities.   Diversity doesn't mean lower income...it means what it means....a larger mix of people, things, cultures, incomes, entertainment, etc within  a certain footprint.    I'm not arguing that the suburbs can't satisfy many of the request outlined in Amazon's RFP, however it is duly noted that they are seeking a campus of sort that reflects what exists in Seattle:

https://qz.com/1071832/amazons-hq2-what-it-wants-for-its-massive-new-north-american-headquarters/

So, it seems an urban environment is more suitable based on certain criteria specified  in the RFP.   And think it'd be easier to recruit and retain millennials and other top notch folk based on these types of locations, albeit you could locate the campus in Waxhaw and get equal attention.

Btw, some of your anecdotes and analogies are weird or off base, hard to make sense of it because it reeks of being sheltered or stubborn...maybe a combo.  Maybe that's why the other person equated it to Trump stuff...I like some of the things Trump is doing but you gotta admit, he's out there a bit and attempts to dump down complex problems through branding or catch phrases.  It's akin to saying we're gonna build a rocket in week using what I read about rocket building last month and a team of  Vet pilots.

 

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I know that Amazon still has Raleigh on their short list - but is there any chance they could say 'hey, we'll go with Charlotte anyway because they're close enough'?

Just really seems unbelieveable to me that Duke/UNC/NC State Grads wouldn't move 2.5 hours away to CLT for a chance to work at an HQ2 based Uptown.  That way HQ2 could also draw from Virginia Tech, Clemson and USC Grads as well that would only be 2.5 hours away (or less) also.   The Triangle is a nice area but just seems too small of a Metro and without any significant Transit.  This really sucks.

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4 minutes ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

I know that Amazon still has Raleigh on their short list - but is there any chance they could say 'hey, we'll go with Charlotte anyway because they're close enough'?

Just really seems unbelieveable to me that Duke/UNC/NC State Grads wouldn't move 2.5 hours away to CLT for a chance to work at an HQ2 based Uptown.  That way HQ2 could also draw from Virginia Tech, Clemson and USC Grads as well that would only be 2.5 hours away (or less) also.   The Triangle is a nice area but just seems too small of a Metro and without any significant Transit.  This really sucks.

 

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I'd totally support Raleigh/Triangle Area over any other City/Area on their short list (Because I love NC) but it's hard for me to fathom because just seems like it's too small of a Metro Area to support such a large Corporate Relocation.  The Charlotte Metro could more readily absorb it/accommodate it.

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7 minutes ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

I'd totally support Raleigh/Triangle Area over any other City/Area on their short list (Because I love NC) but it's hard for me to fathom because just seems like it's too small of a Metro Area to support such a large Corporate Relocation.  The Charlotte Metro could more readily absorb it/accommodate it.

The Raleigh/Durham CSA is 2.2 million, only slightly smaller than Charlotte's at 2.7 million and it's growing faster. If RDU is too small to handle such a relocation (it might be) then CLT is probably too small as well. 

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11 minutes ago, Crucial_Infra said:

The Raleigh/Durham CSA is 2.2 million, only slightly smaller than Charlotte's at 2.7 million and it's growing faster. If RDU is too small to handle such a relocation (it might be) then CLT is probably too small as well. 

While you’re right, 500,000 is a pretty significant size difference. That’s more than 25% larger.

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23 minutes ago, Cadi40 said:

Raleigh is growing faster but Charlotte’s growing fast too, It won’t even out for quite a while. 

 

Raleigh is smaller, so it’s percentages are larger. So it will definitely be a while before 500,000 déficit will even out 

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1 hour ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

 

Raleigh is smaller, so it’s percentages are larger. So it will definitely be a while before 500,000 déficit will even out 

Yeah I don't see the Triangle surpassing Charlotte in population anytime soon. That said I still think its perceived smallness is mostly that -- perception. It's way more spread out and doesn't feel nearly as large as Charlotte but on paper the two are quite comparable in many areas. But again, Amazon isn't necessarily looking at a huge city, it's about other intangibles which the Triangle obviously has. Personally I like Charlotte's layout better, but I'm a sucker for centrality and density. And tallness! 

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They need to keep that place away from here. I'm not a Raleigh fan (I am absurdly loyal (aka "petty") to my city, so I'd prefer it go there. Someone here mentioned the "bleed out" into Charlotte if Amazon picked Raleigh, and I think that is a better option. We won't have massive amounts of land tied up waiting for one company to develop it over 10 years, we avoid the negatives Seattle is seeing, and we gain a lot of talent and businesses that didn't want to or couldn't be in Raleigh. I also believe our already burgeoning tech startup scene would massively explode sparking innovation everywhere which is much better, in my opinion.

Also, Bezos likes to stick his nose in politics, so that may be on his mind. 

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  • 3 months later...

^^^^ I agree with your first point Amazon was only going to a large metro over 5 million and the three still mentioned are just that Dallas, Northern VA and NYC.   Charlotte Raleigh Nashville Austin never had a chance.   Transit mattered for sure.   However your characterization of Crystal City VA is incorrect.   My dad worked there in the early 1980s.  This area is a huge mixed complex of 1970s 1980s 10-12 story office buildings built near National Airport off US 1 and I-395 (big highway there)  Once it was filled with many governmental agencies such as the US Patent office but many of those have moved out leaving lots of vacant space.  There are a few apartment towers mixed in there.  It is very close to the Pentagon.  It was one of the first places connected to DC with Metro back in the mid 1970s as the stop beyond it is Reagan National Airport. 

Here is story on Crystal City for an intro https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2018/11/05/is-this-hq2s-new-home-get-to-know-crystal-city.html

I am not as familiar with Long Island City part of Queens NY but it seems to be the same issue there lots of available space.  1,000,000 sq ft in one tower alone vacant that was vacated by Citibank. 

https://www.cpexecutive.com/post/amazons-surprise-h2q-candidate-long-island-city/?utm_source=whatcountsemail&utm_medium=cpe weekly&utm_campaign=cpe weekly newsletter   So 2 of their likely choices have lots of vacant office space. 

1 hour ago, kermit said:

Anyone suggesting that our next transit plan is too expensive should probably be told to STFU.

This is not the reason we lost this or a reason we won't grow in the future.  Our transit needs to be expanded for sure but as we can afford it.  This whole process with Amazon HQ2/3 search has been somewhat of a black swan not anything likely we will ever see again.  It is RARE in the economic development world to have a search "beauty contest" like this and the far majority of the companies would never do this.  One example would be Apple that is strongly considering a campus style operation in NC. 

From an article in the WRAL Techwire about this process.

"" “It’s tempting to roll your eyes at this soap opera, but Amazon will walk away from this stunt with a cache of incredibly valuable data,” said Stacy Mitchell of the Institute for Local Self-Reliance, a frequent Amazon critic. “It’s learned all kinds of things from the bidding cities — like their future infrastructure plans — that even their citizens are not privy to.”  "Here’s what next, she said: “Amazon will put this data to prodigious use in the coming years as it looks to expand its market power and sideline the competition.”""

https://www.wraltechwire.com/2018/11/06/critics-howl-but-amazon-splitting-hq2-is-a-win-for-ecommerce-giant-in-several-ways/?ssid=112928427

Curiously huge 1500 person warehouse operations were announced in both Raleigh and Charlotte in the last few months.  And another one in Kernersville part of the Triad which submit a bid too. 

And don't count incentives out yet.  Though neither location may match Newark's  NY's Governor already said he is ready to make it happen in his state.   They will extract millions upon millions of dollars of incentives watch and see.  

There are many more companies out there expanding and I can assure you NC and Charlotte will get our share of them.  

 

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16 hours ago, KJHburg said:

However your characterization of Crystal City VA is incorrect. 

What did I get wrong? I was a huge industrial / warehouse district along the RF&P RR through the 1970s. It started to redevelop at the end of the 1970s so it is further along than Long Island City (or Graham st) but fundamentally its the same sort of urban district as Southend.

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Just now, kermit said:

What did I get wrong? I was a huge industrial / warehouse district along the RF&P RR through the 1970s. It started to redevelop at the end of the 1970s so it is further along than Long Island City (or Graham st) but fundamentally its the same sort of urban district as Southend.

Crystal City has been completely an office district with a few apartment towers and hotels since 1970s it has no industrial look too it.  There are no small 1 or 2 story warehouse buildings there like Southend.   South of CC is Potomac Railyards development but any sign of industrial railyards was wiped away there too.  

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1 minute ago, KJHburg said:

Crystal City has been completely an office district with a few apartment towers and hotels since 1970s it has no industrial look too it.  There are no small 1 or 2 story warehouse buildings there like Southend.   South of CC is Potomac Railyards development but any sign of industrial railyards was wiped away there too.  

Exactly, it looks like Southend will look in 10 (?) years. Like I said, further along....

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