Amazon HQ2

[KJHburg]

The point is that Atlanta and Charlotte and Raleigh Durham will do quite fine without Amazon the latter even more so.  Our locations, cost structure, growth in labor force will put us on most lists for companies expanding or moving.   And I am here to tell you that some companies will stay away from Nashville now as they will NOT want to compete with Amazon in the labor force.   Charlotte particularly can exploit that and we have a much better airport.  So how many people do you know in Charlotte that would move to NYC or Northern VA for Amazon?  Maybe to Nashville I could see but I doubt many would move to higher priced cities such as NYC or DC.   

Anyway best wishes for Nashville and we will be the best Charlotte we can be! 

[SydneyCarton]

I agree.   Charlotte  is doing quite fine and doesn’t need Amazon.  In fact, dumping 25,000 to 50,000 jobs in a city Charlotte’s size would be a problem.  I  think that only NY and LA are big enough to swallow that without a hiccup.  

[JRNYP2C]

8 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

I like Atlanta.  It has a nice climate, nice suburbs, and a very low cost of living.  However,  I prefer Charlotte and Nashville.   

Atlanta is doing well, and I think that's great.  It's building some nice little towers and is filling out.  However, I'm surprised by the shock that my friends from Alpharetta expressed by the fact that Atlanta wasn't picked.   There's one city in America that's building supertall towers like wildfire and that has scores of super luxury towers with apartments over $50m.  This City was selected, and Atlanta was not, for many reasons.  It's the same reason that this City is the HQ to over 80 Fortune Five Hundred Companies and is home to the richest people in the world.  It's the same reason why Ivy grads go there more than to any other city and why JP Morgan Chase is tearing down a 750' tower to build a 1,566' tower on the very same spot on Park Avenue.  Amazon wanted urban, and they got it.  Lastly, notwithstanding the unparalleled urbanity, but, as shown in the last photos, travel twenty miles to the north, and one finds mountains and tranquility in centuries old historic towns.

 

R. Silver Photography

A9R1va5f18_1g8mdjx_1mk.tmp

Hudson Yard is making quite an impact on the western part of the skyline!

[KJHburg]

Speaking of Amazon and bringing it back to Charlotte here is their new 2 million sq ft multi level warehouse to employ 1500.   Today as  I rolled back in the QC  sorry for the poor quality but this building is HUGE 

 

[Ingram]

7 hours ago, KJHburg said:

 And I am here to tell you that some companies will stay away from Nashville now as they will NOT want to compete with Amazon in the labor force.   Charlotte particularly can exploit that and we have a much better airport. 

Very few if any companies are going to stay away from Nashville because of Amazon. Nashville has too much appeal to prospective employees. Do you actually think there are 5,000 people in Nashville just sitting around twirling their thumbs waiting for Amazon?

Amazon is going to do what they as well as other corporations have always done no matter the city, which is recruit people from all over the country.

Nashville's ability to bring jobs or corporate relocations will not be hampered by Amazon. There is a reason why there are 10 office towers under construction. Those developers see or know something about Nashville's future business prospects.

 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Ingram

[Dale]

12 minutes ago, Ingram said:

Very few if any companies are going to stay away from Nashville because of Amazon. Nashville has too much appeal to prospective employees. Do you actually think there are 5,000 people in Nashville just sitting around twirling their thumbs waiting for Amazon?

Amazon is going to do what they as well as other corporations have always done no matter the city, which is recruit people from all over the country.

Nashville's ability to bring jobs or corporate relocations will not be hampered by Amazon. There is a reason why there are 10 office towers under construction. Those developers see or know something about Nashville's future business prospects.

 

Yeah, “We’re probably better off without Amazon” is probably sour grapes.

[KJHburg]

No sour grapes with me in Charlotte.  I guess we will see how many will want to compete with Amazon in a smaller market.  

[15895]

5 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

No sour grapes with me in Charlotte.  I guess we will see how many will want to compete with Amazon in a smaller market.  

I don’t understand this position from many people, you don’t think 5,000 jobs paying on avg. 150k is a good thing because it *might* hamper our efforts in attracting jobs that pay such a high hourly salary?

[KJHburg]

Not what I'm saying.  5000 jobs is wonderful but in a market like Nashville it might cause other relocating firms to think twice about choosing Nashville.  Economic consultants have said such.

[Dale]

It could be power of suggestion, but it already seems like Nashville developers are dusting off mothballed projects on the heels of the Amazon announcement. I expect Nashville to kick it up another notch. Who knows how long the momentum will last ?

[Durhamite]

I just think 5000 is pie in the sky and who knows what technology will steer future growth.   I once worked for a company in the RTP  (late 1990s) that employed 10000 people in the park alone....0 today.  Things change so fast today that business models can barely keep pace.  Not discounting Amazon or any company, simply that things change so fast it's difficult to put a lot of faith into anything 5-10 years out based on a  paper promise.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Durhamite

[Durhamite]

19 hours ago, Dale said:

It could be power of suggestion, but it already seems like Nashville developers are dusting off mothballed projects on the heels of the Amazon announcement. I expect Nashville to kick it up another notch. Who knows how long the momentum will last ?

So what?  It's time for both Charlotte and Raleigh to reassess planning and growth, the infrastructure will start to approach gridlock in some areas soon lowering QOL, not to mention the inflated cost of living which seems a bit out of whack right now.  I think both areas have already made the radar...plan and grow better is the key at this point.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Durhamite

[Dale]

2 hours ago, Durhamite said:

So what?  It's time for both Charlotte and Raleigh to reassess planning and growth, the infrastructure will start to approach gridlock in some areas soon lowering QOL, not to mention the inflated cost of living which seems a bit out of whack right now.  I think both areas have already made the radar...plan and grow better is the key at this point.

Much ado about nothing. These cities know they’re growing and are planning for it.

[krazeeboi]

On 11/15/2018 at 9:09 PM, AirNostrumMAD said:

While I agree, I wouldn’t say Charlotte or Atlanta are really shining examples of structural density development patterns. 

Nor was I arguing as much. But they have to start somewhere, don't they?

[krazeeboi]

On 11/16/2018 at 4:26 PM, elrodvt said:

Sure, to each his own regarding the south. But it's not a good match for the supposed criteria is what I mean to say. And it won't be for many companies that want to have a "hip" vibe. If you don't care that's fine. 

Indy and Columbus should go back to square 0. Chicago is a great city that cannot figure out how to deal with a terrible crime problem. They make progress on that and they're back in everyone's top lists.

Regarding the "ruse" I'm sure there is some truth to that within the scope of what they could tolerate. It'll make for some really interesting analysis once more numbers are in. I have not read PIttsburgh's bid and had expected them to win myself. Did anyone who read it consider it much less lucrative than the accepted bids?

DC was most likely chosen due to Amazon being the frontrunner to win the multibillion dollar JEDI contract from the Pentagon and all of the benefits that come with doing business with the government in general, and NYC is NYC. We're talking about the nation's political capital and cultural/commercial capital. No other cities in the country can make up for not being those things, including Chicago, SF, LA, Boston, Chicago, etc. Certainly cities should always conduct a review after losing economic development deals to assess what could have been done differently or better, but there was nothing typical about this. NYC and DC were always the top two choices but Amazon engaged in this public reverse-RFP process in large part to collect tons of data regarding sites, workforce quality, etc. from cities all across the country and don't be surprised to see Amazon adding jobs in several of these cities going forward. 

[krazeeboi]

On 11/17/2018 at 2:26 PM, KJHburg said:

Not what I'm saying.  5000 jobs is wonderful but in a market like Nashville it might cause other relocating firms to think twice about choosing Nashville.  Economic consultants have said such.

That's a fair point. The pace at which the 5K jobs will be added will certainly play a role. And the mentality among Nashville's leadership has got to catch up to what will soon be their reality. The "We don't want to become another Atlanta" days are clearly over, and it's rather unfortunate that sentiment included the things Atlanta got right, most notably establishing a regional rail-based transit system. Nashville is already lagging in this area and inasmuch as some have said bad traffic has discouraged corporate investment in Atlanta, what does this portend for Nashville which doesn't even have so much as an officially approved plan as of now? 

[KJHburg]

Speaking of Atlanta here is their official HQ2 pitch video remember everyone was chasing a 50,000 job office at the time

and to their list of corporate headquarters you can now add Norfolk Southern 

https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2018/11/19/see-georgias-amazon-hq2-video-pitch.html?ana=e_me_set1&s=newsletter&ed=2018-11-19&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1542632236&j=85098861

 

[Durhamite]

On 11/18/2018 at 12:36 PM, Dale said:

Much ado about nothing. These cities know they’re growing and are planning for it.

Absolutely.  Sort of like this.."it could be power of suggestion, but it already seems like Nashville developers are dusting off mothballed projects..."  Sorry  but that is the epitome of much ado about nothing with respect to Charlotte or NC. 

[Dale]

18 minutes ago, Durhamite said:

Absolutely.  Sort of like this.."it could be power of suggestion, but it already seems like Nashville developers are dusting off mothballed projects..."  Sorry  but that is the epitome of much ado about nothing with respect to Charlotte or NC. 

Sounds like somebody’s a little jealous.

[KJHburg]

Well maybe not new high paying jobs but Mr Bezos donates $5 million to Salvation Army here in Charlotte to help with homelessness and shelters.  

https://www.bezosdayonefund.org/day1familiesfund

[kermit]

On 11/16/2018 at 3:00 PM, Dale said:

Lack of transit options clearly weren't a factor.

HB2 rears its ugly head again as well:

From today's TBJ https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2018/11/20/public-records-hb2-caused-heartburn-with-amazon.html

Quote

Memos and other documents shared at the behest of a Triangle Business Journal public records request show lingering concerns about HB2, space constraints and transit all may have factored into Amazon’s decision to go outside of the Triangle for the project.

 

[hinsp0]

13 hours ago, kermit said:

HB2 rears its ugly head again as well:

From today's TBJ https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2018/11/20/public-records-hb2-caused-heartburn-with-amazon.html

 

This is not a knock on your post or an endorsement of the former HB2.  However, I think it’s worth noting that Tennessee affords no legal protection to private employees on the basis of sexual orientation, gender identity, and on the basis of other traits that are not formally protected under federal employment laws.  Only certain counties in Tennessee afford protections to public (governmental) employees on the basis of traits such as sexual identity and orientation, and I believe it’s a total of approximately 5 counties overall.  Thus, I don’t think former HB2 was really that big of a deterrent to Amazon’s HQ2 pursuits.

A massive private employer, such as Amazon, can always be more progressive in protecting its employees than the states in which it operates.  The employer can be benevolent even if the legal remedies available in a particular jurisdiction may not be perceived as being benevolent or sufficient.

PayPal supposedly pulled out of its Charlotte expansion because of HB2.  Yet, Pay Pal hasn’t announced a similar expansion elsewhere.  Perhaps simple economics are the real reason, and a briefly enacted state law was mere pretext to provide an excuse for a company biting off more than it could economically chew.

I will say this, however:  HB2 was ill-conceived and Charlotte was unfairly punished because the city tried to enact an ordinance that caused a knee jerk reaction from our legislature sitting down east in Raleigh.  Charlotte should not be the victim of corporate politics (and NBA hostage taking) merely because the city tried to do something largely viewed as progressive while the state legislature, which hardly represents this city, decided to use Charlotte’s ordinance as an excuse for further centralized power grab.

At the end of the day, if a certain company wants a certain culture of inclusion, the company can create and enforce that culture.  There are legal mechanisms, short of the Courts, such as arbitration and internal disputes processes, that can provide avenues to protect employees that a company desires to protect.

[kermit]

^ I mostly agree, although I do want to flesh out my perspective on this. And to be clear, the purpose of my post was simply to share the TBJ article, I have not seen the documents that they refer to.

On 11/21/2018 at 7:12 AM, hinsp0 said:

I think it’s worth noting that Tennessee affords no legal protection to private employees on the basis of sexual orientation, gender identity, and on the basis of other traits that are not formally protected under federal employment laws.  Only certain counties in Tennessee afford protections to public (governmental) employees on the basis of traits such as sexual identity and orientation, and I believe it’s a total of approximately 5 counties overall.  Thus, I don’t think former HB2 was really that big of a deterrent to Amazon’s HQ2 pursuits.

This is certainly true, but (IMO) the issue in NC wasn't the absence of protections, the problem was that the state stepped in to nullify a Mecklenburg non-discrimination ordinance. Our elected government decided to remove equal-protection from a specific group of people -- this is (IMO) much different than never passing a non-discrimination policy to begin with. Regardless of how conservative Tennessee is, at least their elected officials were smart enough not flaunt their  intolerance.

Honestly we will never know how much of a role that HB2 played in Amazon's decision (or the decisions of any other company that did not relocate to NC). What we do know  is that modern firm relocation is driven as much by optics than by actual economic conditions. Knowledge-firms select locations that will keep their employees (including CEO) happy while presenting a positive image to their customers. Since HB2 was a big middle finger to people on the middle-left of the political spectrum any company moving here will be tared with that brush.  Any company that is just slightly concerned about what their customers (or employees)  think of them will avoid the institutionalized intolerance of NC as long as they have other, equally-viable, options to choose from.

Charlotte is a fine place to live and work. But our advantages over our competitors are nowhere near big enough to make something like HB2 a non-issue in the relocation process.

Edited November 22, 2018 by kermit

[deleted]

^^

Both right and both well articulated.

[krazeeboi]

No doubt Tennessee is conservative, even more so than NC and GA, but their politicians don't seem to be prone to pulling public stunts and antics that result in bad publicity for the state, and I think this is what Amazon was particularly concerned with. I'd say a big reason for this is that the state of Tennessee itself has a brand that it has worked to cultivate, particularly with respect to tourism, and it is careful to not do unnecessary damage to that brand. A second reason is that there doesn't seem to be the same level of tension between conservative state officials and more liberal local officials from the larger cities in Tennessee. Historically the relationship between the state and Memphis hasn't been the best, but being that Memphis is a bit stagnant, it poses no real threat to the state political establishment. Knoxville and Chattanooga lean more to the right, and Nashville's rise to prominence is a relatively recent phenomenon. Although the state has intruded on Nashville's ability to get some things done, there doesn't appear to be much in the way of high-level ideological contention between the two entities. Nashville is a city that is fundamentally built on conservative cultural aspects like country music and Protestant evangelicalism. Now that it's clear that Nashville's brand has evolved to become more appealing to the masses (particularly college grads and young professionals) , you may just begin to see some of these ideological conflicts bubble up to the surface. We'll see how things play out as time goes on.