Amazon HQ2

[BullDurhamer]

9 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

Interesting article from the Denver Post about how the state of Colorado doesn't currently have enough tech workers to support a 50,000 person campus. Unemployment is less than 2% in the state for tech workers. Colorado's 4 year university system only produces 1,200 computer science graduates per year. There are a total of 34,500 unemployed people in all of metro Denver, in any field. A campus like Amazon would be serious strains on the labor market in a geographically isolated area requiring 80%+ of the workforce to be imported from outside of the state. The impact on smaller tech companies would be great, as Amazon could outbid them and offer better benefits for workers, forcing smaller tech companies to consider alternate locations. 

Just an interesting take on how a place with a very low unemployment rate and strong economy, could actually see some negative ripple effects to existing businesses who are already struggling to find talent. 

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/09/22/amazon-second-headquarters-colorado-labor-market-shortage/

as i noted yesterday, denver has it pretty good if their biggest issue is unemployment being too low.  

 

i've read a ton about this and the non experts seem to think Dallas, Denver, Boston, Washington, or Atlanta are the favorites.  At least those are the consistent names i keep reading here.

The triangle has to be a serious dark horse contender though.  While it may be deemed too small, it has pretty much everything else going for it, especially if Raleigh throws in a light rail system with the proposal.    

 

The greater questions about politics are more interesting than the rest though. Does Bezos rule out the anti-gay states off the bat?  Or does he go to Charlotte or someplace to help turn NC blue for good?    We also aren't clear if they're going urban or suburban.  It seems an urban campus is in the works, but these cities far and wide and bringing proposals with all kinds of options.  If suburban is the pick, then all bets are off.  It could be anywhere, with RTP probably being high on the list. 

[BullDurhamer]

9 minutes ago, J-Rob said:

I actually blocked @elrodvt at one point because I grew tired of the constant criticism of Charlotte and praise of Denver.  I have been to Denver many times and really like it.  It is a great city, but it is not like it is a world class city far superior to Charlotte.  Making that assessment doesn't mean my eyes are wide shut.  

There are plenty of differences between the two cities, but as the downtown parts go, it's really more a matter of Charlotte being so much younger than Denver.  Urban renewal and all, uptown Charlotte is kind of in the beginning stages of building itself into a mega city.  It's all happening and Charlotte will eventually be the cosmopolitan city some think Amazon might want, but for now it's a banker's day city with limited options for residents.  

Just my opinion, but perceptions of Charlotte will grow and change over the next many years.  Just look back at the skyline photos from 2000, or hell, even 2010.  The transformation is incredible.  

As more and more people come in, you'll get more and more restaurants and hopefully other employers besides BOA.    Let's face it, a city full of bankers isn't exactly a cultural melting pot.  

 

 

[Cadi40]

I lived in Miami and like Charlotte much better. It’s about the person, Not the city. Everyone likes something different. But I do agree don’t come on a CLT thread and compare it to Denver. Charlotte isn’t comparable to any other city because we don’t like in a utopian society where every city is the same, Everyone and Every City is different.

[Dale]

13 minutes ago, BullDurhamer said:

There are plenty of differences between the two cities, but as the downtown parts go, it's really more a matter of Charlotte being so much younger than Denver.  Urban renewal and all, uptown Charlotte is kind of in the beginning stages of building itself into a mega city.  It's all happening and Charlotte will eventually be the cosmopolitan city some think Amazon might want, but for now it's a banker's day city with limited options for residents.  

Just my opinion, but perceptions of Charlotte will grow and change over the next many years.  Just look back at the skyline photos from 2000, or hell, even 2010.  The transformation is incredible.  

As more and more people come in, you'll get more and more restaurants and hopefully other employers besides BOA.    Let's face it, a city full of bankers isn't exactly a cultural melting pot.  

 

 

Side-note: for those of you disheartened by the banality of recent additions to our skyline ... look at Denver's skyline.

Heck, I really like Dallas. But what do I know ? I don't even like fish tacos.

[BullDurhamer]

2 minutes ago, Cadi40 said:

I lived in Miami and like Charlotte much better. It’s about the person, Not the city. Everyone likes something different. But I do agree don’t come on a CLT thread and compare it to Denver. Charlotte isn’t comparable to any other city because we don’t like in a utopian society where every city is the same, Everyone and Every City is different.

say what?

[Cadi40]

Just now, BullDurhamer said:

say what?

LOL, I was typing on my phone. I’m saying Charlotte isn’t like any other city because we don’t live in a Utopian Society where everything is the same. I’m saying all cities are different.

[BullDurhamer]

lol, thanks for clarifying!    

[elrodvt]

33 minutes ago, BullDurhamer said:

There are plenty of differences between the two cities, but as the downtown parts go, it's really more a matter of Charlotte being so much younger than Denver.  Urban renewal and all, uptown Charlotte is kind of in the beginning stages of building itself into a mega city.  It's all happening and Charlotte will eventually be the cosmopolitan city some think Amazon might want, but for now it's a banker's day city with limited options for residents.  

Just my opinion, but perceptions of Charlotte will grow and change over the next many years.  Just look back at the skyline photos from 2000, or hell, even 2010.  The transformation is incredible.  

As more and more people come in, you'll get more and more restaurants and hopefully other employers besides BOA.    Let's face it, a city full of bankers isn't exactly a cultural melting pot.  

 

 

In the 4 years or so I've lived here uptown has gotten a LOT better.  

I wasn't trying to come on here to tout Denver (although I was guilty of that when I first moved here for sure).

I just have a hard time not comparing to the other large city I've lived in when people make comments like some of the above. If you want to block posts which are negative about some aspect of Charlotte that is your right. It's also your right to only watch Fox or CNN as the case may be. It doesn't make you a valuable part of the discussion - more like a cheerleader.

Edited September 29, 2017 by elrodvt

[kermit]

22 minutes ago, Cadi40 said:

... don’t come on a CLT thread and compare it to Denver....

Isn't this a thread about how Amazon is going to compare Charlotte to other metros?

 

[Cadi40]

Just now, kermit said:

Isn't this a thread about how Amazon is going to compare Charlotte to other metros?

 

Yes I am just now realizing that, I apologize.

[kermit]

Relax guys, Amazon is not reading this thread -- we are not going to say anything that will kill our (small) chances of landing HQ2. (although it would be great if we could scoop that press release)

We don't gain anything from papering over Charlotte's considerable shortcomings.

IMO we (this board) might play a small role in highlighting market opportunities for the developers who do occasionally read us. If we can encourage some developers to add some missing middle housing, rehab some potential restaurant space or build on a surface lot that was below their radar (etc.) then we have made a huge contribution to the future of Charlotte.  Getting snippy with folks because they are negging Charlotte achieves nothing.

[BullDurhamer]

for anybody interested, the RINO district in Denver is probably the best downtown location Denver will be offering.  We'll see of course, but if you want to know the competition, check it out.

https://rinoartdistrict.org/    cool, modern, hip, new, very close to downtown, train line (on airport side of denver) etc.    breweries and restaurants popping up daily. you know the drill...location would be unbeatable by any city in the world.

 

Apparently Amazon went to the "RINO" of Seattle back in the day.  Something to keep in mind.  Also note how close Coors Field is to this location.  Clayton Kershaw will be pitching tonight less than a mile from where the new Amazon HQ could be.  Sorry the Braves let their team go.  Having a downtown ballpark in Charlotte is a huge selling point, IMO.

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2017 by BullDurhamer
added baseball references

[Dale]

We don't need no stinking Amazon. We need culture-towers on every parking lot!

[J-Rob]

18 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

If you want to block posts which are negative about some aspect of Charlotte that is your right. It's also your right to only watch Fox or CNN as the case may be. It doesn't make you a valuable part of the discussion - more like a cheerleader.

LOL, it was actually more of this attitude that made me block you.  I don't watch FOX or CNN and voted for a third party because I despised both front-runners in the last election.  I am as objective as they come; which is the exact reason I have reasonable expectations for CLT.  Criticism for the sake of criticism doesn't make you a valuable part of the discussion either.  It just annoys people. I am much more likely to value the criticism of someone that also sheds praise when it is due; which is why most people value @ricky_davis_fan_21 and @Jayvee's input aside from their obvious access to information.

Edited September 29, 2017 by J-Rob

[RiverwoodCLT]

Just for a business stand point, it makes more sense  to place a  second HQs in the eastern time zone.   Well Fargo HQ in San Francisco and its East coast HQ in Charlotte giving it a 12 full hours of business.  Well Fargo has more employees in Charlotte than San Francisco.

  I do not think Amazon  will do anything different.   You want the max hours you can get for for HQs being open.  Where they put it is the big question.

Edited September 29, 2017 by RiverwoodCLT

[cjd5050]

1 hour ago, BullDurhamer said:

The triangle has to be a serious dark horse contender though.  While it may be deemed too small, it has pretty much everything else going for it, especially if Raleigh throws in a light rail system with the proposal.    

5

Would Amazon even consider non-existent light rail?  That's a pretty large speculation to be made.   That would require a vote and I am not sure something like that could be done in an open RFP process like this and on this timeline.  I don't see how 'Raleigh' could just throw light rail in.   

What would be really interesting and beneficial is for NC to identify funding for a  Computer Science Program or Program Expansion that would be placed at the closest UNC system campus to whatever city Amazon picked in North Carolina.   One would assume a top level CS program could be built in 5 years if the money was there.  No?

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

Would Amazon even consider non-existent light rail?  That's a pretty large speculation to be made.   That would require a vote and I am not sure something like that could be done in an open RFP process like this and on this timeline.  I don't see how 'Raleigh' could just throw light rail in.   

What would be really interesting and beneficial is for NC to identify funding for a  Computer Science Program or Program Expansion that would be placed at the closest UNC system campus to whatever city Amazon picked in North Carolina.   One would assume a top level CS program could be built in 5 years if the money was there.  No?

"this timeline" 

All they are requesting is room for 500,000 sq feet of office in 2018. Their buildout to 8,000,000 sq feet isn't until 2027.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Guest

[BullDurhamer]

I don't know how they'd do that either, but it's obvious light rail will have to land in Raleigh eventually.  

Then again, if I was Amazon, I'd look really hard at Durham.  Light rail is coming.  Progressive values.  Incredibly highly educated workforce.  Big talent pool.   Super hot...among most desirable places for people to move these days.    Modern, hip, cool.   I'd put a few bucks on RDU with some long odds if I could. 

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, BullDurhamer said:

I don't know how they'd do that either, but it's obvious light rail will have to land in Raleigh eventually.  

Then again, if I was Amazon, I'd look really hard at Durham.  Light rail is coming.  Progressive values.  Incredibly highly educated workforce.  Big talent pool.   Super hot...among most desirable places for people to move these days.    Modern, hip, cool.   I'd put a few bucks on RDU with some long odds if I could. 

 

I agree 100% with this statement. Durham is a big time dark horse.

[BullDurhamer]

https://www.geekwire.com/2017/amazon-angst-dominates-annual-seattle-chamber-meeting-city-leaders-make-long-shot-bid-hq2/

 

How about Seattle?

[Scribe]

11 minutes ago, BullDurhamer said:

How about Seattle?

Benefits:

• They stay consolidated in an existing (known) market.
• Possibly saving on some costs that would be duplicated with a 2nd HQ.

Drawbacks:

• Seattle is locked to a small area (83.78 mi² vs 297.7 mi² for Charlotte) - unless you start looking well outside the city.
• The lack of land to expand means you primarily have to go vertical - raises costs in already expensive market
• Lost the chance of redundancy.
• Lost expanded work day - as compared to moving to the East coast.
• Lost access to talent - Seattle is a drawback for a lot of ppl that interviewed with Amazon but turned down the offer in the end (technical reference POV here)
• ... the list can go on

[BullDurhamer]

Raleigh?

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-09-14/big-cities-aren-t-better-in-amazon-s-contest?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

The more I read about this, the less of a dark horse it appears the triangle really is...

 

In other news, Detroit is going all in today.    Good luck to them I guess. 

[Cadi40]

If Raleigh got Amazon, That would be a bad scenario for CLT mainly because we would loose a little bit of Population (People would move to Raleigh to chase after a large company).

[caterpillar2]

3 hours ago, BullDurhamer said:

Denver definitely has a smog problem.  Global warming is also going to affect a city like Denver quite a bit going forward and could be something Amazon considers.   With that said, if you haven't been to Denver lately, you'd be surprised to see just how much it has grown in recent years.    Colfax isn't really even on anybody's radar at this point.  

I know that Denver has grown over the years in both good and bad ways. I also know that it is a cool city.   I'm not saying that I don't like Denver, I do.   It is just elrdovt often makes idiotic comparisons between cities and his justification is normally unitelligible. If the dude bases his judgement on his trip of a lifetime from Denver to  Cheyenne (or wherever in Wyoming)  on the steam train, he's probably not very credible.  He should visit Tweetsie Railroad, he will never leave the mountain.  (:

 

16 minutes ago, Cadi40 said:

If Raleigh got Amazon, That would be a bad scenario for CLT mainly because we would loose a little bit of Population (People would move to Raleigh to chase after a large company).

I thought one of the requirements was that the "city" had to have a population of 1 million or more. Raleigh isn't close.  Is Amazon considering metro populations? 

[Cadi40]

Amazon is including Metro Populations.