Amazon HQ2

[deleted]

1 hour ago, Spartan said:

Take a look at the number of parking lots in downtown Houston. We've got nothing on them.

Exactly right.

[ah59396]

19 hours ago, Cadi40 said:

Transportation wouldn't be the reason Charlotte doesn't get picked, We are qualified enough where the other Categories make up for the loss of Transit. If Amazon want's their employees living close to HQ2 and living in a Urban setting, Then the Blue Line does the job for now. They aren't hiring 50K right once they pick a City. They might start out with 1K - 4K And then work up from there. I wouldn't expect 50K until a few years after their FULL Campus is built. If Charlotte sticks to their possible plan of adding more light rail lines all at once, Then Charlotte should be fine. I just hope the people making the proposal are smart enough to add that transit is going to be upgraded. 

Amazon should consider this - Think about how much of a hustle and bustle Amazon would be creating if they added 50K Jobs to the Downtown area, There would always be a mob of people walking along side the streets. If for some reason we still don't have the culture Amazon is looking for then you can drive 1 1/2 Hours to Asheville (Which I don't get why all the articles are saying Charlotte doesn't have Culture when there is Southend, NoDa, Elizabeth, Dilworth, And I have heard many people say Charlotte has a mini Seattle Vibe).

I think Charlotte has as good as a shot as anyone else, If not better. I am very optimistic and with the MLS Deal that failed I think Charlotte will learn from past mistakes. In the end, It will be the City that has the best deal, And there is where we have a benefit, Building in Charlotte is Very cheap compared to other Major Cities and With Tax Breaks from Charlotte, It would be Dirt Cheap for Amazon.

This is now the 2nd or 3rd time I've read this.  I'd love to hear some perspective on how Charlotte is like a "mini-Seattle".  I find the two city's to be polar opposites of each other.  

They don't align culturally.  They don't align historically.  They don't align economically.  They don't align geographically.

I can see Charlotte as a "mini-Houston" or certainly a "mini-Atlanta".  But I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this claim above.

[deleted]

24 minutes ago, ah59396 said:

This is now the 2nd or 3rd time I've read this.  I'd love to hear some perspective on how Charlotte is like a "mini-Seattle".  I find the two city's to be polar opposites of each other.  

They don't align culturally.  They don't align historically.  They don't align economically.  They don't align geographically.

I can see Charlotte as a "mini-Houston" or certainly a "mini-Atlanta".  But I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this claim above.

Yeah, I see virtually zero commonalities between the two cities.  I really can't imagine what people are referring to when they make that claim...  

[go_vertical]

I don't think that what a bidding city currently has today is as important as to what that city's potential is.  In various discussions on this I'm hearing; Charlotte doesn't have non-stop flights to x and y, the local universities don't provide enough graduates, there aren't enough transit lines".  Sure, the city my fall slightly short in a few areas but it has done a healthy amount of future planning and preparing.  Hell, there has been a large amount of engineering and designing for planned infrastructure projects and THAT is what I think Amazon wants to see.  They know they won't have full build out of their campus for a decade or more and with planning already underway the city would have time to finish terminals and add flights, build out a couple of rail lines, develop and implement studies programs partially designed by Amazon themselves.

With the exception of the larger cities in play here I think Charlotte is in the perverbial sweet spot in regards to where our systems currently sit.  They are still relatively young but with a pretty well thought out road map as to where they are going.  Amazon might like the fact that we are already doing much of the foot work and the timing might allow them to further help design it all to make it beneficial for them as well.  Easier to get in on the ground level than to figure out how to retro fit in hindsight.

[atlrvr]

I think a core question that is unknown is...

Does Amazon want the HQ2 city to be substantially similar to Seattle.

 

Remembering back to school days, the debate is do they want something that is complimentary or supplementary?

A possibly logical thought could be there is substantially large population of talented workers that would find riding transit, walking or biking to work not appealing.

Cupertino where Apple just built there new HQ is about as un-urban a development as possible, though it is ground zero for talented workers. In fact, most tech companies are now opening Silicon Valley and San Francisco offices.

My only point is I think owning what we are and are becoming is our best selling point, not trying to convince Amazon that we could be like Seattle if they just squint for 10 years.

 

[Spartan]

1 hour ago, ah59396 said:

This is now the 2nd or 3rd time I've read this.  I'd love to hear some perspective on how Charlotte is like a "mini-Seattle".  I find the two city's to be polar opposites of each other.  

They don't align culturally.  They don't align historically.  They don't align economically.  They don't align geographically.

I can see Charlotte as a "mini-Houston" or certainly a "mini-Atlanta".  But I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this claim above.

There are only two similarities between South End and Seattle:

• They both have a ton of relatively new, expensive apartments filled with millenials
• They both start with the letter "S"

You can't really compare one neighborhood to an entire city though, so it's not really a good place to start an argument. That said, Seattle has tons of single neighborhoods that are better than South End, Noda, Dilworth, Wilmore, and Plaza-Midwood combined, so I'd prefer to stay away from the comparisons altogether (at least in terms of the built environment).

 

32 minutes ago, go_vertical said:

I don't think that what a bidding city currently has today is as important as to what that city's potential is.  In various discussions on this I'm hearing; Charlotte doesn't have non-stop flights to x and y, the local universities don't provide enough graduates, there aren't enough transit lines".  Sure, the city my fall slightly short in a few areas but it has done a healthy amount of future planning and preparing.  Hell, there has been a large amount of engineering and designing for planned infrastructure projects and THAT is what I think Amazon wants to see.  They know they won't have full build out of their campus for a decade or more and with planning already underway the city would have time to finish terminals and add flights, build out a couple of rail lines, develop and implement studies programs partially designed by Amazon themselves.

With the exception of the larger cities in play here I think Charlotte is in the perverbial sweet spot in regards to where our systems currently sit.  They are still relatively young but with a pretty well thought out road map as to where they are going.  Amazon might like the fact that we are already doing much of the foot work and the timing might allow them to further help design it all to make it beneficial for them as well.  Easier to get in on the ground level than to figure out how to retro fit in hindsight.

Charlotte also has a proven history of executing the plans that it creates (ie: light rail) 

[kermit]

Nice article from the N&O on the state incentive program that will be used for Amazon. There is a bit of information on the upper limits of available incentives from the state.  The N&O's tweeter teaser for the article was 'is it enough?' But they don't really engage the question of what other locations are willing to offer. 

IMO the program is designed for manufacturing projects so the state won't even be in the right ballpark for incentives.

http://amp.newsobserver.com/news/business/article173976251.html

[ah59396]

49 minutes ago, kermit said:

Nice article from the N&O on the state incentive program that will be used for Amazon. There is a bit of information on the upper limits of available incentives from the state.  The N&O's tweeter teaser for the article was 'is it enough?' But they don't really engage the question of what other locations are willing to offer. 

IMO the program is designed for manufacturing projects so the state won't even be in the right ballpark for incentives.

http://amp.newsobserver.com/news/business/article173976251.html

Maybe while every other city in the country is focused on winning the white whale that is Amazon, we should be working behind the scenes to poach smaller (but still impactful) organizations...

[KJHburg]

2 minutes ago, ah59396 said:

Maybe while every other city in the country is focused on winning the white whale that is Amazon, we should be working behind the scenes to poach smaller (but still impactful) organizations...

I agree because some companies will not even come to whatever city is chosen for Amazon for fear of not being able to attract employees.  Plus there are many more 100-1000 job prospects than this whale. Don't get me wrong if Amazon came to NC it would be fantastic but we can't sell our soul either above and beyond normal incentives we use (which by the way are quite successful) 

And if your read their own information Amazon may not choose anybody or multiple locations so it is all up in the air and I think they is what they want everyone to think. 

[Cadi40]

I think the incentives the state has in place already are terrific. Plus, Compared to other Major Cities it's Dirt Cheap to build in Charlotte so they would get a bigger bang for their buck and that's not even with incentives.

[KJHburg]

My Amazon article of the day (its easy there is a new one coming out every day) this once compares and talks about 30-40 cities in their bids mostly Business Journals around the country. https://www.bizjournals.com/triad/news/2017/09/18/amazons-hq2-sends-u-s-cities-into-recruiting.html?ana=e_ae_set1&s=article_du&ed=2017-09-18&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1505780933&j=78841941

My thoughts: it will go east as in eastern time zone for many reason.  I think it will go south.  In my book Atlanta Charlotte and Northern VA are top contenders.   As for vacant land yes Houston has some surface lots but they are controlled by lots of people.  Our vacant acreage is basically owned Levine Properties and a huge tract own by Mecklenburg county Hal Marshall Center. Anyone who had done land assemblage knows the less people involved the better. I think this is truly a Charlotte advantage.   But Charlotte chances go way up if this is broken up somehow into different divisions as a consumer retail HQ here would be a big winner.   They mentioned a possibility of multiple sites so who knows.  

[Cadi40]

I wouldn't say Northern VA, Too Expensive. I do agree however with the Southeast. At the end of the day the only thing Amazon cares about is the money.

[QCxpat]

20 hours ago, ah59396 said:

This is now the 2nd or 3rd time I've read this.  I'd love to hear some perspective on how Charlotte is like a "mini-Seattle".  I find the two city's to be polar opposites of each other.  

They don't align culturally.  They don't align historically.  They don't align economically.  They don't align geographically.

I can see Charlotte as a "mini-Houston" or certainly a "mini-Atlanta".  But I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this claim above.

The NY Times Travel section (Sunday, 09/17/2017) carried a story titled "American Phoenix" regarding Chuck Berry's 1964 anthem "Promised Land".  https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/11/travel/chuck-berry-road-trip.html?mcubz=0&_r=0  Charlotte was one of the destinations on the writer's road trip recreating Mr. Berry's journey across the South from Virginia Beach to LA.   Of Charlotte, the author wrote:  "Although Charlotte still faces its past demons -- a police officer here recently killed an African-American man, Keith Lamont Scott, setting off a wave of protests -- it is also a fast-growing, new-South technology and banking hub that charmed us on a mild summer day."   Facially, there's not much there to connect Seattle with Charlotte except for one important word, "technology".  Charlotte's connection to Seattle (a "mini-Seattle")  is grounded in two familiar ways.  First, there's Charlotte's aspirational connection to Seattle; second, there are countless human connections between the two cities.  Aspirationally, Charlotte wants to be like Seattle, a major global city and international tech hub. The two cities also share a deep  vein of human connections.  You used to live in Charlotte and now live in Seattle.  UPers who have been following your posts for years know they can count on trenchant commentary and wicked wit whether you're posting from Seattle or from Charlotte. My younger brother got his Masters degree in mathematics at UW in Seattle, and  his  N.C. license plate proudly says in bold letters "HUSKIES".   My niece and nephew were born and raised in Seattle.  My husband's favorite cousin and her husband live in Seattle.  There's no denying that Seattle is already a great global city and a giant tech hub, while Charlotte aspires to become one.   Oscar Wilde famously said that "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery that mediocrity can pay to greatness."  Well, emulating Seattle also makes good sense for Charlotte.  You're right that, at first blush, the two cities might appear to be "polar opposites," yet they're inextricably bound to one another by common aspirations and countless human ties shared across the 2,851 miles that separate them.                               

 

Edited September 19, 2017 by QCxpat
Add Oscar Wilde quotation

[eastsider]

Little Sugar Creek totally reminds me of the Puget Sound.

[queensguy06]

6 hours ago, ah59396 said:

Maybe while every other city in the country is focused on winning the white whale that is Amazon, we should be working behind the scenes to poach smaller (but still impactful) organizations...

What is this we?! You and I have become null and void in that equation seeing as how you are in Seattle and I in Denver. 

I'll shoot you a PM as I'll be up in Seattle at the end of October.

[KJHburg]

Your Amazon article of the the day. Don Peebles may try to convince Amazon HQ2  to Brooklyn 2nd Ward.  https://www.bisnow.com/charlotte/news/office/don-peebles-may-try-and-lure-amazon-to-charlotte-79164?utm_source=MorningBrief&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20170919_charlotte_morningbrief&be=kj%40charlottehomes.com

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Your Amazon article of the the day. Don Peebles may try to convince Amazon HQ2  to Brooklyn 2nd Ward.  https://www.bisnow.com/charlotte/news/office/don-peebles-may-try-and-lure-amazon-to-charlotte-79164?utm_source=MorningBrief&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20170919_charlotte_morningbrief&be=kj%40charlottehomes.com

So yea, so much factually incorrect with this article. I agree with the possibility, and coupled with the County land left on Stonewall, and the NCRR land, this could be somewhat viable.

[SgtCampsalot]

So is anyone else scared to death that Amazon might actually choose Charlotte? I see protests coming if it happens (same for many other cities).

[deleted]

13 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

So is anyone else scared to death that Amazon might actually choose Charlotte? I see protests coming if it happens (same for many other cities).

Scared that they might choose Charlotte?  Why would that be?  I understand the potential negative impacts on low income residents (certainly the cost of housing will increase) and that most of the jobs will be higher wage positions.  However, there will be huge positive impacts.  Construction jobs, jobs for low wage earners (food service, janitorial, etc.).  Amazon will be a great Corporate citizen, with a lot of philanthropic programs, etc.  I can't see any way that Amazon coming here would result in protests (has that ever happened anywhere else for this type of business?).   There are so many things to be afraid of in today's world, this isn't one of them... 

[RALNATIVE]

19 hours ago, TheOneRJ said:

Raleigh, or anywhere in the Triangle, has absolutely no chance whatsoever at HQ2. If Amazon chose anywhere in NC, it will be Charlotte (for obvious reasons). 

So say you. However...there are many experts that give Raleigh a better shot than Charlotte (for obvious reasons).

[SgtCampsalot]

3 hours ago, JBS said:

Scared that they might choose Charlotte?  Why would that be?  I understand the potential negative impacts on low income residents (certainly the cost of housing will increase) and that most of the jobs will be higher wage positions.  However, there will be huge positive impacts.  Construction jobs, jobs for low wage earners (food service, janitorial, etc.).  Amazon will be a great Corporate citizen, with a lot of philanthropic programs, etc.  I can't see any way that Amazon coming here would result in protests (has that ever happened anywhere else for this type of business?).   There are so many things to be afraid of in today's world, this isn't one of them... 

I hear what you're saying. What I mean is that we, as an entire society, need to get away from relying on large enterprise for the health of our economy, and move back toward a moderating balance between small/local enterprise and large enterprise (obviously certain things can only be done in a large context). Relying on large enterprise becomes a massive liability in the long term (all your eggs in a basket),  and a major artificial disruptor to the local municipalities in the short term.

You could  say it doesn't allow the free market to actually be free.

[HighRiseHillbilly]

On 9/18/2017 at 1:01 PM, SgtCampsalot said:

If Amazon chooses a mid-sized city (let's  say a Greensboro type), it will be a boon for that city and its citizenry for years to come, and eventually will bring the city to its knees for a while afterward when Amazon downsizes, leaves, merges, or closes.

If Amazon chooses a larger city (say, a Charlotte), it will be a boon for the corporate business community and those citizens who already have a solid investment and  in the metro area, and it will be a nail in the coffin of those who rent (out of necessity) and anyone else who needs to work in the city but can't afford to live here. Then it will bring a major blow to the overall economy when Amazon eventually downsizes, leaves, merges, or closes.

Both bleak futures are already set to happen eventually based on the way most cities already operate (concentrating so much economic activity, often not local, in a condensed geographic area, investing in suburban infrastructure, etc), but Amazon would just make the landing all that much harder.

I try not to think negatively, but I can't help but to think about these and similar downsides to Amazon coming here. 

Yes, it would be GREAT, but aside from the list you mentioned, we see how CATS operates. Them dragging their feet would cause some terrible traffic "in the meantime". Also, do we really want to wait 30 years to see some of this land developed? We've already got a Levine issue. That will just be more land sitting there driving us crazy when it could potentially be developed much quicker if it was being developed by multiple companies for various uses.

And if I feel this way, it's something. I get all Leslie Knope when I think about Charlotte and I want it to be the best city in the world - not that it isn't already. 

That said, I'm ready for Amazon, so bring it on. I hope the proposal is top notch and that they explore every avenue of what makes Charlotte unique & attractive. I noticed one thing, I don't think anyone here mentioned all of the HBCUs and women's colleges in the area. This is an issue tech companies are grappling with now, and whether they take advantage of it or not, they should be mentioned as a viable semi-solution and talent source.

[JRNYP2C]

So just pondering the "Levine" aspect of Amazon and considering Charlotte.  Would we really see this as a viable place for them to build, or would Mr. Levine still drag his feet at Amazon's supposed deep pockets?  I can envision them picking Charlotte, but Levine angling for more money than they are willing to part with.  Other options would be out there for sure.  I'm thinking River District - simply due to the proximity to the airport and the one distribution center there.  I'm also thinking of the vacated tobacco plant in Concord - also close to a new distribution center and existing space.  Would we want Levine to be the perennial thorn in the side of progressive development?

[KJHburg]

^^^ Since it was mentioned above about HBCU and women in tech. Guess what state is #1 with women in technology????  You're right  North Carolina so they need to come here to show their commitment to women in tech and then leverage our greate HBCU like NC A&T and NC Central Univ. and locally JC Smith.   https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2015/02/06/north-carolina-ranks-no-1-for-women-in-technology.html

[caterpillar2]

8 minutes ago, JRNYP2C said:

So just pondering the "Levine" aspect of Amazon and considering Charlotte.  Would we really see this as a viable place for them to build, or would Mr. Levine still drag his feet at Amazon's supposed deep pockets?  I can envision them picking Charlotte, but Levine angling for more money than they are willing to part with.  Other options would be out there for sure.  I'm thinking River District - simply due to the proximity to the airport and the one distribution center there.  I'm also thinking of the vacated tobacco plant in Concord - also close to a new distribution center and existing space.  Would we want Levine to be the perennial thorn in the side of progressive development?

There is lots of room between Charlotte and Cornelius beside the RR tracks which hopefully will someday transport commuters. It would also be easily accessible to the Concord airport, the Charlotte airport and the Amazon warehouse close by.