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2 hours ago, kermit said:

 

I have always disliked this mindset.  

Imagine if every local business and entrepreneur contributed back to the economy to an equal % that these massive employers do.   Our arts and culturals, as well as, our charity network would be massive.   I am sure this Garrett is a swell guy but until every startup gives from day one then startups need to understand the business environment is not an army of equals but rather an ecosystem of unequal but in harmony with each other.

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30 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

I have always disliked this mindset.  

Imagine if every local business and entrepreneur contributed back to the economy to an equal % that these massive employers do.   Our arts and culturals, as well as, our charity network would be massive.   I am sure this Garrett is a swell guy but until every startup gives from day one then startups need to understand the business environment is not an army of equals but rather an ecosystem of unequal but in harmony with each other.

Think about what charity, large art institutions, etc, really are, though...
"Charities" are a compensation for the inequities that are inherent in a system that is reliant on large-scale "everything" and leaves people behind. Large entities can't possibly treat employees and citizens subjectively; small entities can. 

Large art institutions are a facade of "culture" that is, 1) propped up by gov't/corporate welfare assistance, and 2) is pretty much exclusively patronized by the upper classes of society (ballets, symphonies?). I've been in the art community, and the idea that you can only survive by either getting grants or working for a major (subsidized) art institution is the general mindset.

In other words, if you actually invested in small-scale, local business and solutions, you could very well eliminate the need for the philanthropic givings of the corporations in the first place.

Edited by SgtCampsalot
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3 hours ago, cjd5050 said:

I have always disliked this mindset.  

Imagine if every local business and entrepreneur contributed back to the economy to an equal % that these massive employers do.   Our arts and culturals, as well as, our charity network would be massive.   I am sure this Garrett is a swell guy but until every startup gives from day one then startups need to understand the business environment is not an army of equals but rather an ecosystem of unequal but in harmony with each other.

Its not really about charity. A solid case can be made that focusing on startups could generate stronger job growth (per dollar of subsidy) over the long-term.

Edited by kermit
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A recent headline (09/20/2017) in The Boston Globe reads, "Amazon could find those 50,000 jobs hard to fill in Boston area."  Boston's problem is that while the local schools produce lots of STEM graduates, very few of them hang around Beantown once they've graduated.  Paradoxically, Boston suffers from a very large Brain Drain.   See link: https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2017/09/20/would-amazon-suck-all-tech-talent-boston/quW1jXN0ePqid5gGjdmw0I/story.html

 

 

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These U.S. cities have the best chance of being Amazon’s second headquarters

We created a select list of cities with over a million people that have a chance of getting Amazon’s attention. We compared them on a number of criteria, including tech talent, airport travel time, office prices, housing costs and population. Take a look:
https://www.recode.net/2017/9/9/16278136/amazon-jeff-bezos-top-cities-new-second-headquarters
 

Where did they get the price per square foot for Raleigh office from. Sounds extremely wrong


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15 hours ago, kermit said:

Its not really about charity. A solid case can be made that focusing on startups could generate stronger job growth (per dollar of subsidy) over the long-term.

You missed the point, entirely.  I understand the benefits of small businesses.  I have one.   But I also understand that I am not the same as BofA or Duke Energy.   And I am not silly enough to suggest mine be treated the same.   This guy Garrett makes his living swimming in the wake from these big companies.  He's not in Asheboro, Greenville or Athens.  He has his coworking space in Charlotte, in the shadows of the big boys.   

Small businesses get to chart a course without many of the burdens imposed on large corporations.    Any honest SBO knows this.  So to suggest that they are being overlooked here is just stupid.

18 hours ago, SgtCampsalot said:

Think about what charity, large art institutions, etc, really are, though...
"Charities" are a compensation for the inequities that are inherent in a system that is reliant on large-scale "everything" and leaves people behind. Large entities can't possibly treat employees and citizens subjectively; small entities can. 

 

That is just inaccurate.   Charity is interwoven into the core of many.  Giving is just something that everyone must do.  It's not from guilt.  

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15 hours ago, QCxpat said:

A recent headline (09/20/2017) in The Boston Globe reads, "Amazon could find those 50,000 jobs hard to fill in Boston area."  Boston's problem is that while the local schools produce lots of STEM graduates, very few of them hang around Beantown once they've graduated.  Paradoxically, Boston suffers from a very large Brain Drain.   See link: https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2017/09/20/would-amazon-suck-all-tech-talent-boston/quW1jXN0ePqid5gGjdmw0I/story.html

 

 

My company has a tough time finding talented analysts in Boston, where it is headquartered.  From what I've heard, while there is a strong and capable talent pool, there is also fierce competition.

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5 hours ago, cjd5050 said:

You missed the point, entirely. 

No, I was actually making my own point. Taxpayers really ought to be thinking about the ROI on the multi-billion dollar incentives packages they are jumping up and down to pay for. If they engaged their brains they would see that the long-term ROI on fostering entrepreneurship is likely to be higher than the ROI on writing Jeff Bezos a check, and it would have the side benefit of making our economy more diversified rather than less. Unfortunately our political system is not designed to reward long-term thinking.

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On 9/22/2017 at 9:27 PM, elrodvt said:

Whether it is positive or not depends so much on the giveaways and long they take to make back (if ever).

Living in a border city like CLT must make that even more problematic given all the SC commuters? I bet some smart person here has numbers on that.

What would happen if Rock Hill became the next Asheville/Greenville and was more desirable to live for urban seekers and of course suburbanites can easily move south as well.

Then we're stuck paying the infra bill and SC gets the cash.

I don't know the history of the Philly city worker tax but imagine it was an attempt to make DE a less desirable option. As hated as that is I wonder if it would ever fly here?

Hate to quote myself but no one has numbers on incentives when border states within an easy commute have lower cost of living? I cant find any that are reputable but you would think this must have been studied?

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1 hour ago, kermit said:

No, I was actually making my own point. Taxpayers really ought to be thinking about the ROI on the multi-billion dollar incentives packages they are jumping up and down to pay for. If they engaged their brains they would see that the long-term ROI on fostering entrepreneurship is likely to be higher than the ROI on writing Jeff Bezos a check, and it would have the side benefit of making our economy more diversified rather than less. Unfortunately our political system is not designed to reward long-term thinking.

You don't grow the top end of the food chain these days.  You luck into it if it happens organically.  Suggesting cities should invest in startups so that one day one will become something the size of BofA, Duke or Amazon is about as stupid as telling someone to invest in the lotto for their retirement.   

I have worked for multiple startups.  Stating is less than 1% of the journey.  Serial Entrepreneurs are most often serial failures.  I also know that one of the most important things for a small business to succeed is the market it's in.  There is absolutely a trickle down from the likes of BofA, DEC and others this size.  Going out there and landing large companies are actually creating food for small business.  

Unfortunately, there are too many people with envy and there are too many elected cowards that cave to envy.  

Edited by cjd5050
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10 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

 Suggesting cities should invest in startups so that one day one will become something the size of BofA,

where did I say that?

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On 9/23/2017 at 11:11 AM, elrodvt said:

That is the kind of unique approach that could work, this example is inadequate, humorous though.  To echo various positions, this sounds like an NFL team threatening it's home city for a new stadium, just don't see the equivalent here, Seattle has had difficulties with Amazon and there will be no compromise/accommodation from what I've read.  CLT's best approach given the flood may be to half-ass an intentionally low-ball offer, with it's own "demands", and play nonchalant/hard-to-get, with a subtle sell.  As great as this may be, there is a bit of a smell about it.

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16 hours ago, kermit said:

where did I say that?

You said: "If they engaged their brains they would see that the long-term ROI on fostering entrepreneurship is likely to be higher than the ROI on writing Jeff Bezos a check" which is essentially saying that if they focused on fostering entrepreneurship the growth would be better than an Amazon HQ.  

Look, I am all about small business.  I am all about investing in it and fostering it.  But that does not exclude me from also wanting the region to go after major corporations and to do that I understand it's going to take resources.   I have lived in places where there is a lack of large corporations and the only choice is to focus on entrepreneurship and growing small business.  It's not easy and really does not work.

I am pretty sure that just landing a single campaign for one of the large corporations is enough revenue to make the year for people who work out of Garrett's coworking space.   That's just one reason why big fish matter.   That's why going after Amazon is actually working to help small business...even if people like Garrett can't or won't see that.

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I can see both sides but definitely think a start up like ecomdash that helps sellers bridge multiple platforms such as Amazon, Walmart, eBay etc would benefit being in the city with HQ2.  Just anecdotally one example of a startup already in town that I could see benefiting let alone others that may crop up.

 

Edit:  Sorry if it sounded sales-y not affiliated with the company just know of them from hearing of local startups and when the conversation went there they were the first I thought who could benefit if we landed Amazon

Edited by SouthEndCLT811

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4 hours ago, cjd5050 said:

You said: "If they engaged their brains they would see that the long-term ROI on fostering entrepreneurship is likely to be higher than the ROI on writing Jeff Bezos a check" which is essentially saying that if they focused on fostering entrepreneurship the growth would be better than an Amazon HQ.  

Yes, I said the above.

The text where you misinterpreted me is below (emphasis added):

21 hours ago, cjd5050 said:

Suggesting cities should invest in startups so that one day one will become something the size of BofA, Duke or Amazon is about as stupid as telling someone to invest in the lotto for their retirement.  

 

EDIT: Changes from initial smartphone glance at breakfast (bacon grease was blurring my screen)

Edited by kermit
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1 hour ago, Spartan said:

Isn't the saguaro cactus a threatened species? Maybe we should step up our game and send them a panda.

or a Carolina Heelsplitter, the endangered fresh water mussel that, with help from the economy, sunk the Bridges at Mint Hill Shopping Mall. 

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