Orlando Magic Entertainment Complex [Proposed]

[jrs2]

Thank You!  To all!

That organization does not know real estate, and it trickles down their collective sweaty plumber’s butt crack from the inability to field great teams, which, they have the opportunity to do but have squandered time and again.

To JFW657’s point about talking to them...I think they are pompous a-holes so it wouldn’t do any good even if I tried.

To Spenser1058’s point about the DeVos family and their values, I think the NBA controls more in this respect than the values of the owners, which, as we have seen, has affected some owners’ ability to maintain ownership of their respective franchises.  But that’s politics and that’s always dirty.  Trust me, if they’re heinous enough, then the same ridiculousness that happened to NC a few years ago would be repeated here.  That’s all BS anyway that just divides people, while our collective masters bankroll and maintain control.  But you know what, this could be a karma issue now that I think about it.

The douchebaggetry (yes, I do expect credit when anyone uses this term!) exhibited by the Magic hit me the hardest when, they said no to signing Dennis Rodman back when he, his green hair, and his fur coats, would’ve put butts in the seats.  Bad business decisions that have translated to bad real estate planning.

Take ISC in Daytona.  Probably a bunch of rednecks with similar values.  So what.  They sure know how to develop real estate!  And I’ll keep harping on this Shiite till the cows come home because I, like many here, am infuriated at this entity when I walk out of the JW at LA Live and say to people, oh yeah, we’re getting something similar in Orlando.   

Also, what Aent said.

Also, what Orlandouprise said.

But on a practical business level, what Popciclebrandon said.  Geez...

But, just as important to note, what Orange87 said.  Because, DeVos has a right to believe whatever he wants and to support whatever causes he chooses to support.  If he didn’t have this right, then we’d all be f@cked  That’s no different than walking in Times Square and seeing billboards that state “Take Christ out of Christmas.”  Offensive to millions, but, it is what it is, which is my point.

[uncreativeusername]

3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

 Because, DeVos has a right to believe whatever he wants and to support whatever causes he chooses to support.  If he didn’t have this right, then we’d all be f@cked  That’s no different than walking in Times Square and seeing billboards that state “Take Christ out of Christmas.”  Offensive to millions, but, it is what it is, which is my point.

Of course he has the right. I fully agree with your analysis there. But it's still interesting to note, as these beliefs are paired with a general lack of investment/general good-will toward the community at large.  It's pretty rare that corporations with deep and responsible civic engagement also peddle bigoted beliefs.  So in a conversation of whether or not RDV/The Magic practice good corporate citizenship, I do think it's relevant...

[bqknight]

On 2/11/2018 at 10:26 AM, popsiclebrandon said:

The Magic community engagement compared to Orlando City is just sad. They have a large multiple revenue advantage and they do very little to benefit the region and engage with the community. Even for just marketing purposes they really suck at it.

They reached out to us this year about opening a spot in the arena. We thought that would be cool so we met with them. They asked for $50k+ other fees to put a small cart in there. They seemed surprised that $50k was a lot for a small business that will probably not sell enough to make that back (we would only make a fraction on each sale as majority goes to the catering company that runs it) and told us then that they usually order pops from out of state for staff events and we would then take priority in that order instead. No idea why they thought telling me they order from a company not in the community over the shop 2 miles from you would endear me to them. They don't get it, unlike Atlanta which has prioritized using their new stadium as a way to market Atlanta and its food scene.

Levy is also a sh!t stadium concessionaire. There's a reason OCSC didn't go with them. 

[popsiclebrandon]

Spectra is also terrible. We had a meeting at 1PM with the guy that runs concessions at Orlando City, he showed up at 1:45 and told us we were unprofessional because the pops had started to melt. I did have a good laugh as I walked out of there. I'm told they fired that guy this year so we'll see if its any better this year.
OC stadium being smaller they could have done it all in house and done some really cool stuff there. Maybe they will once the contract is up.

[jrs2]

On 2/11/2018 at 7:52 AM, spenser1058 said:

TBH, I think the DeVos clan has pretty much bungled the franchise since they've had it. The comparison for us, of course, is Orlando City. Since upgrading to MLS, I'm not sure our soccer team has had any more success than the Magic (such are likely the vicissitudes of playing in a smaller market), but they just seem to operate more professionally (at least from the outside).

My problem with the Magic is much more fundamental. We, as a community, have given Rich DeVos and company millions of taxpayer dollars, not to mention actual dollars spent on admissions and concessions at the arena.

In return, while he may represent the values of Western Michigan, in no way does he represent the values of diversity and inclusion that Buddy Dyer and even Teresa Jacobs and Bill Sublette insist Orlando stand for.

Rich DeVos spent more to prevent marriage equality in Florida than anyone else (the infamous Amendment 2 - this despite the fact he doesn't live in Florida); his minion, Pat Williams, was loud and proud in attempting to prevent passage of Orlando's anti-discrimination ordinance; his daughter-in-law Betsy DeVos has, as Secretary of Education sought to eviscerate public schools and protections for student loan holders.

Certainly, anyone in our country is welcome to hold whatever views he or she likes. But one of the primary reasons we have been encouraged to invest public money in sports teams like the Magic is that they instill unity and reflect us as a community. Rich DeVos has done just the opposite.

As a result, so long as he is the owner, I strongly prefer to support my (albeit struggling) UCF Knights, who are much more representative of my hometown.

Accordingly, any entertainment complex the Magic may build is tainted and of no interest to me. I'd rather have the parking garage.

Just some points:

I'd rather have the entertainment complex, if it ever happens, versus a parking garage.  I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face because I disagree with DeVos' views.

So, Devos spent $$$  the way he did, and Dyer cut off Parramore St with the soccer stadium; And, Dyer gave money to Devos.  So, you have a guy who has his beliefs versus a guy who has other beliefs.  The result:  same.  If you boycott the "entertainment complex" for those reasons you stated, then you should also boycott soccer games for similar yet different reasons.  And while you're at it, call Dyer's move out for what it is:  self serving.  He's no hero to Parramore, and don't refer to him like he's some social justice champion compared to DeVos.  He's a politician and nothing more, and in this case, a group actually did get the shaft from City Hall; not almost did.

On a side note, what does "Dyer, Jacobs, and Sublette "insist" Orlando stands for" mean exactly ("insist")?  I ask because that word sounds like an interpretation of, or a demand that, something be or is perceived to be, a certain way.  If something "is" you don't have to insist that it "is" because it already "is", right, or am I missing something?  Or is it an attempt to convince?  Is it an edict?  Or is it simply marketing?  Because Orlando's ADO exists.  One does not have to insist that it exists because it does.  I mean, do you see my point?  Why do you have to insist?

The Magic are judged by the emissaries that reach out to the community, like Nick and Bo and others do.  I forgot DeVos even existed until he was brought up here on these boards; my management frame of reference is Martins et al.  NBA.com spells out everything the Magic do for the community at large, which is on par with other NBA teams.  Minority kids that take part in the community outreach programs the Magic do aren't thinking about Rich Devos; they're thinking about their BB heroes and an outlook for a better future for themselves.

On 2/12/2018 at 2:57 PM, uncreativeusername said:

Of course he has the right. I fully agree with your analysis there. But it's still interesting to note, as these beliefs are paired with a general lack of investment/general good-will toward the community at large.  It's pretty rare that corporations with deep and responsible civic engagement also peddle bigoted beliefs.  So in a conversation of whether or not RDV/The Magic practice good corporate citizenship, I do think it's relevant...

See above.  NBA.com.  Also, I think the "entertainment complex" is a further attempt in what you are also talking about.

Edited February 14, 2018 by jrs2

[jrs2]

By comparison ala entertainment complexes created by a major sports brand, check out the link to One Daytona's website.  Even their website is advanced.  you can click on the map and it shows you the different places that are open and u/c.  I did a drive thru last week.  The beauty of this is that all of this is the initial phase.

http://www.onedaytona.com/Directory

 

[bqknight]

On 2/12/2018 at 7:49 PM, popsiclebrandon said:

Spectra is also terrible. We had a meeting at 1PM with the guy that runs concessions at Orlando City, he showed up at 1:45 and told us we were unprofessional because the pops had started to melt. I did have a good laugh as I walked out of there. I'm told they fired that guy this year so we'll see if its any better this year.
OC stadium being smaller they could have done it all in house and done some really cool stuff there. Maybe they will once the contract is up.

Hmmm...interesting. 

The stadium may be smaller but I highly doubt it's small enough to do all internally. You're more knowledgeable on the food/bev front but 25K people is still quite a lot. Not sure how long the contract is but I know they're quite happy with Spectra right now and there should be more to come. Last year was pretty "rushed" with everything - as anyone who went to the first couple of games probably saw. 

[jrs2]

A colleague of mine was "surprised" that the Magic didn't break ground after OPD was demoed.  Sadly, I wasn't.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

7 hours ago, jrs2 said:

A colleague of mine was "surprised" that the Magic didn't break ground after OPD was demoed.  Sadly, I wasn't.

 

Tell your colleague they may not want to continue to set themselves up for disappointment.

[alex]

Update: Sports and Entertainment District Planned Development Amendment Second Reading (via The Daily City)

Second hearing scheduled for Monday. New plans include:

• 200,000 sq ft of office space
• 166,000 sq ft of retail space,
• 250-room hotel with 80,000 sq ft expo center
• 310 dwelling units
• 2,500-space parking garage

Interestingly, the new site plan shows the north half as one structure, while the submitted signage plan rendering still shows the Rescue Mission and other buildings in the northwest corner.

Don't love that they went with one big footprint for the northern portion...that will probably mean that 1) anything off Central Blvd will look very "back of house" and 2) Pine Street won't line up across Hughey like in the old plans, when the Pine Street continuation curved through the site.

[gibby]

Awful.  The City should never agree to this.  Pine Street should continue through.

[dcluley98]

From that site plan, Pine street isn't going through at all, that is just a turnaround driveway to drop off at the plaza.  This is very different than what they proposed before, and not in a good way. 

[orange87]

2 hours ago, alex said:

Update: Sports and Entertainment District Planned Development Amendment Second Reading (via The Daily City)

Second hearing scheduled for Monday. New plans include:

• 200,000 sq ft of office space
• 166,000 sq ft of retail space,
• 250-room hotel with 80,000 sq ft expo center
• 310 dwelling units
• 2,500-space parking garage

Interestingly, the new site plan shows the north half as one structure, while the submitted signage plan rendering still shows the Rescue Mission and other buildings in the northwest corner.

Don't love that they went with one big footprint for the northern portion...that will probably mean that 1) anything off Central Blvd will look very "back of house" and 2) Pine Street won't line up across Hughey like in the old plans, when the Pine Street continuation curved through the site.

Looks good to me. The building in the center looks about 25+ stories and the one on the right looks about 20+ stories. Should be great for our skyline and add some good height west of I-4.

[gibby]

You're looking at the old rendering, which was awesome.

[jrs2]

19 minutes ago, gibby said:

You're looking at the old rendering, which was awesome.

So do we know if there is a new rendering that's accessible to view?

Also, do these guys really not foresee needing more office space to lease in the future, to where they might consider building the office building at least 12+ stories and just not building out the unused floors until needed?  Or maybe doing what Lincoln is doing with CSP and having one tall mixed use tower and saving the footprint of the office building land for event space until they need to build that out as well with...maybe another tower?

Tall hotel, tall apartment tower, and dinky office building.  Wow.  These people have no imagination.  And they cut off Pine St to boot.

[alex]

Yeah, it's strange that they didn't submit the amendment with new renderings...

Comparing the two site plans, I would expect the new plans to look fairly similar massing-wise. The new site plan still shows "Residential above Parking Garage" and "Hotel Tower." The office building—even if it stays at six stories like in the original rendering—will match the five-story HD Supply building next door. It also won't dwarf the Amway Center across the street, so it's a good fit for that corner.

As for Pine Street not going through, I'm OK with that. It'll be safer (think terrorist attacks, people tripping over curbs), it would probably be closed off during events, anyway. I'm personally a fan of pedestrian-only streets.  I just wish they would have kept the curve to line up with Pine across Hughey and to add some interest to the site.

2014 Site Plan vs. 2018 Site Plan:

                    

 

[gibby]

With the new design, more than half the length of Pine Street would still have cars/curbs and they would be zooming in/out of 3-4 parking garage entrances, particularly during events.  Roads closed for pedestrian only use are great but this would not be that.  I think they do a great job with closing Church Street near the arena for events.  They should do the same for Pine Street.

[orange87]

4 hours ago, alex said:

2014 Site Plan vs. 2018 Site Plan:

                    

 

The one on the right is the new (current) plan, right? Does anybody know how many stories the buildings in the new plan are going to be?

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, orange87 said:

The one on the right is the new (current) plan, right? Does anybody know how many stories the buildings in the new plan are going to be?

I doubt they even know yet.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

I thought (and may be wrong) there was a height limit on that property of 100 or 200 ft.  Personally I would like to see both the Hotel and Residential push 300-350ft.

So regarding height, not sure any of these were going to be 'tall' unless approved.

Pine street not going through is the best thing for this. Keep it pedestrian friendly.

Is the residential condos or apartments? (Its Orlando so probably apartments).

I'm with you on the office building. Heck you could even get Orlando City and Any other 'Sports' related business in Orlando in a pretty sizable 10-1 story office building. Would be pretty nice to have all the sports heads in the same area.
 

[JFW657]

I'd be surprised if anything really tall went up there. I'm thinking maybe 15 - 16 stories... 20 at best. 

But then again, who knows?

[IAmFloridaBorn]

3 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

I'd be surprised if anything really tall went up there. I'm thinking maybe 15 - 16 stories... 20 at best. 

But then again, who knows?

That might even be too generous. lol

[orlandouprise]

On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 10:26 AM, popsiclebrandon said:

as always the old massing was better. Much better layout and planning. This look like a cookie cutter development now instead of urban design. 3 freaking boxes thrown on a prime piece of property. Sucks

 

[IAmFloridaBorn]

I wish Orlando would go ahead build the minor leage ball park on this land

[Jernigan]

Orlando won’t get behind a minor league team.   If I was Sanford or Lake Mary I’d find a way to develop my downtown around a tight minor league municipal park adjacent to the train.