Orlando Magic Entertainment Complex [Proposed]

[spenser1058]

27 minutes ago, uncreativeusername said:

I love Loch Haven and am also very glad DPAC isn't there. The size and scope of the venue (regardless of the design) would have overwhelmed the park.  Orlando Rep, OMA & Orlando Shakes are all appropriately scaled, and OSC is separated enough that it doesn't overwhelm.  I am also glad DPAC is downtown from a planning perspective - I would rather the project spur denser development around its current location than around Loch Haven. 

Is there a degree of hubris in using DPAC as a crown jewel for City Commons/City Hall/whatever-we-call-the-whole-area?  Probably. But I'm not upset that this was the result - this is turning out to be a great civic space, in my opinion.  

 

Your points are quite valid and it might very well have obliterated the scale. I’ve always wondered if that could have been avoided by separating the theaters. They’d need to be close, I’m assuming, for operational purposes. Is there, however, some law that requires a tri-theater big box? I know it’s the norm going back at least to Lincoln Center but it hasn’t always been that way. Is it that way now because of the laws of theatrical physics or because, if that’s the way Manhattan does it, then, by God, so will we?

Of course, it’s a moot point. Buddy was happy to replace a basketball arena for the DeVoses after only 15 years but it’s taking us almost 100 to replace our performing arts facility.

Edited July 28, 2020 by spenser1058

[uncreativeusername]

43 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

DPAC looks unfinished because the master plan was also to have a colonnade of buildings at its front lawn. Another unpopular view here, but I think it would look much more dynamic if these parcels are built on. 

Yes, I agree, and I was originally very concerned by this change of plans.  By this point, I've somewhat warmed to the idea of preserving the public space, and I think a similar dynamism can still be established when the empty lots across South & Anderson are (eventually) developed.   South and Anderson need a streetwall for DPAC to make more sense.

[prahaboheme]

5 minutes ago, uncreativeusername said:

Yes, I agree, and I was originally very concerned by this change of plans.  By this point, I've somewhat warmed to the idea of preserving the public space, and I think a similar dynamism can still be established when the empty lots across South & Anderson are (eventually) developed.   South and Anderson need a streetwall for DPAC to make more sense.

Even if left as open space for the most part it would be nice to have kiosks of some sort for cafe / lounge perhaps on the Orange Ave side. That would help to wall things in a bit and also provide a reason to use the space outside events.

[JFW657]

34 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Your points are quite valid and it might very well have obliterated the scale. I’ve always wondered if that could have been avoided by separating the theaters. They’d need to be close, I’m assuming, for operational purposes. Is there, however, some law that requires a tri-theater big box? I know it’s the norm going back at least to Lincoln Center but it hasn’t always been that way. Is it that way now because of the laws of theatrical physics or because, if that’s the way Manhattan does it, then, by God, so will we?

Of course, it’s a moot point. Buddy was happy to replace a basketball arena for the DeVoses after only 15 years but it’s taking us almost 100 to replace our performing arts facility.

Go Buddy - Go Buddy - Go Buddy - Go Buddy..... 

[uncreativeusername]

4 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Even if left as open space for the most part it would be nice to have kiosks of some sort for cafe / lounge perhaps on the Orange Ave side. That would help to wall things in a bit and also provide a reason to use the space outside events.

100% for this ^.   "Preserving the public space" doen't mean just leaving  completely empty grassy fields.  

[JFW657]

11 minutes ago, uncreativeusername said:

100% for this ^.   "Preserving the public space" doen't mean just leaving  completely empty grassy fields.  

Agreed.

No need for a barren suburban looking front lawn.

TREES TREES TREES TREES TREES TREES!!!

[jack]

On 7/28/2020 at 1:52 PM, prahaboheme said:

DPAC looks unfinished because the master plan was also to have a colonnade of buildings at its front lawn. Another unpopular view here, but I think it would look much more dynamic if these parcels are built on. 

Maybe but it depends on what was built. 

This is one of the most striking buildings in downtown so it seems like we would not want to block its impact as you are walking driving down Orange ave. But, it depends on what is built. 

On 7/28/2020 at 2:54 PM, uncreativeusername said:

100% for this ^.   "Preserving the public space" doen't mean just leaving  completely empty grassy fields.  

I agree and assume this is because they don't have a lot of cash. 

On 7/28/2020 at 1:12 PM, spenser1058 said:

Given that, just to name one, the Orlando Fringe Festival, one of the most popular of those events held around the world, has been infinitely more successful at Loch Haven than it ever was downtown, I disagree.

Also, from a marketing standpoint, shouldn’t you locate where your audience is and wants to be? Given the demographics (and support) of arts organizations often skews older, which atmosphere do you think they’d prefer? We actually know. Whenever given the choice among those 50 and over in studies during the Hood administration, Loch Haven won  over downtown almost every time. If we can either expand our commuter rail to weekends/holidays/events or not toss light rail aside like we did the last time it was handed to us, it becomes even more attractive as the rail is right there.

Now, if it should never have been built, neither should have Piedmont Park in Atlanta, Centennial Park in Nashville or Jackson Park in Chicago (those are three that come immediately to mind)as they came to be In order to host regional, national and world expositions.

Once again, Orlando keeps trying to be a fourth-rate Manhattan instead of building on our unique strengths as a community. A beautiful arts park in a verdant urban setting would be something so totally Orlando it could be the something special apart from the theme parks that we want so badly.

I would have looked at where Bob Carr is if I was around back then, not the core of downtown. The park atmosphere does not bother me but it always seemed so isolated in its current location. 

I am not following your comment on the fourth rate Manhattan.  

[prahaboheme]

12 hours ago, jack said:

Maybe but it depends on what was built. 

This is one of the most striking buildings in downtown so it seems like we would not want to block its impact as you are walking driving down Orange ave. But, it depends on what is built. 

I agree and assume this is because they don't have a lot of cash. 

I would have looked at where Bob Carr is if I was around back then, not the core of downtown. The park atmosphere does not bother me but it always seemed so isolated in its current location. 

I am not following your comment on the fourth rate Manhattan.  

More like speeding one-way down Orange Ave.  And who is walking there unless there is an event? The master plan was to create a fully immersive pedestrian area. 
IMHO, the architect got it right with the master plan and the city got it wrong by stating this will remain all open space.

[spenser1058]

The Bob Carr Auditorium was built on land the city had recently acquired to take over what would eventually become the Central Florida Fair.

It’s unclear exactly how that came to be, but it’s reasonable to suppose it was as the Florida economy began to sputter in the 1920’s (the collapse of the Florida real estate boom was a contributing factor to the stock market collapse in 1929).

It no doubt made sense since the City then owned the land and, as a former racetrack, probably didn’t require much site remediation.

So far as I can tell, no group of planners ever got together as they would today and worked out the ideal location.

Just the opposite was supposed to be the case with DPCPA. I will leave it to the collective wisdom of our fine posters to determine if they’ve succeeded.

I do find it curious that, since it initially opened, the groundswell of upscale restaurants and retail predicted to appear has not done so. The similarly wonderful explosion that was supposed to take place as a result of the zone between the Am and DPCPA has instead given us a an increasingly dead zone on Church St.

All of this (until COVID arrived in March) during one of the most successful economic periods in the region’s history.

But, I know, just wait another 17 years and our administration will work it all out!

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

But, I know, just wait another 17 years and our administration will work it all out!

Go Buddy - Go Buddy - Go Buddy - Go Buddy..... 

[jack]

11 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

More like speeding one-way down Orange Ave.  And who is walking there unless there is an event? The master plan was to create a fully immersive pedestrian area. 
IMHO, the architect got it right with the master plan and the city got it wrong by stating this will remain all open space.

He was directed to add buildings for the master plan. The idea was is would provide a dedicated stream of revenue to pay for operations. 

[jack]

10 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Just the opposite was supposed to be the case with DPCPA. I will leave it to the collective wisdom of our fine posters to determine if they’ve succeeded.

I do find it curious that, since it initially opened, the groundswell of upscale restaurants and retail predicted to appear has not done so. The similarly wonderful explosion that was supposed to take place as a result of the zone between the Am and DPCPA has instead given us a an increasingly dead zone on Church St.

All of this (until COVID arrived in March) during one of the most successful economic periods in the region’s history.

But, I know, just wait another 17 years and our administration will work it all out!

I still like the location but there are some downsides to it being at the end of downtown. 

The lack of new restaurants and retail is disappointing but in hindsight, where would they have gone? Church St? I am not saying the boosters were being dishonest but....

Capital was increasing looking to the burbs because of cost in urban area. But yes, there was so much available capital in the past year that it seemed if you had dream, you could get it built. 

[elefants]

10 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

It no doubt made sense since the City then owned the land and, as a former racetrack, probably didn’t require much site remediation.

I had no idea a racetrack was once there.  Is there a name I can look up?

[spenser1058]

20 minutes ago, elefants said:

I had no idea a racetrack was once there.  Is there a name I can look up?

If there is, I haven’t found it. The Central Florida Fair doesn’t even rate a wiki site so far so I was digging around elsewhere.

Apparently, racetracks weren’t uncommon back then. Supposedly, there was one at Lake Eola also. Given just about everyone had a horse back then, I guess it makes sense.

Of course the only horse track which made it into the modern era here  was Ben White Raceway across Lee Rd. from Lake Fairview (it was for quarter horses).

Edited July 31, 2020 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

It’s sort of odd that Ocala bills itself the “Horse Capital of the World” and yet we have no thoroughbred racing tracks in Central Florida.

https://www.ocalamarion.com/things-to-do/equestrian/

 

[orange87]

Christ alive! Is this ever gonna get built? This would be a huge addition to Downtown.

[spenser1058]

15 minutes ago, orange87 said:

Christ alive! Is this ever gonna get built? This would be a huge addition to Downtown.

Is there anything the Magic has done that would have suggested a different outcome? And our mayor just handed it to them without due diligence. The whole thing was utterly predictable. Welcome to Buddy’s Orlando, where the fix is always in.

 

[jrs2]

On 7/30/2020 at 10:39 PM, spenser1058 said:

The Bob Carr Auditorium was built on land the city had recently acquired to take over what would eventually become the Central Florida Fair.

It’s unclear exactly how that came to be, but it’s reasonable to suppose it was as the Florida economy began to sputter in the 1920’s (the collapse of the Florida real estate boom was a contributing factor to the stock market collapse in 1929).

It no doubt made sense since the City then owned the land and, as a former racetrack, probably didn’t require much site remediation.

So far as I can tell, no group of planners ever got together as they would today and worked out the ideal location.

Just the opposite was supposed to be the case with DPCPA. I will leave it to the collective wisdom of our fine posters to determine if they’ve succeeded.

I do find it curious that, since it initially opened, the groundswell of upscale restaurants and retail predicted to appear has not done so. The similarly wonderful explosion that was supposed to take place as a result of the zone between the Am and DPCPA has instead given us a an increasingly dead zone on Church St.

All of this (until COVID arrived in March) during one of the most successful economic periods in the region’s history.

But, I know, just wait another 17 years and our administration will work it all out!

Well, I dunno 'bout you, but when that hotel opens up inside CSP, I plan on going to that open air bar in the cutout portion of the tower halfway up!  And that's technically in between Amway and DPAC...albeit not on Church...

[orange87]

Orlando Magic shares more about planned downtown training facility

The Orlando Magic's new downtown training center, which is under construction, will be ready for action next year.

The NBA team on Jan. 25 revealed the planned $70 million center will open in spring 2022 and will be called the AdventHealth Training Center. The name of the future 130,000-square-foot facility on nearly 4 acres at South Division Avenue and West Central Boulevard comes from a partnership between the team and the local $3.86 billion health care system AdventHealth, which will have operations in the building. 

The team's new training facility will feature two basketball courts for practice; expanded strength and conditioning, training and recovery facilities; aquatic spaces including for physical therapy and hydrotherapy; sports science and nutrition facilities and audio-video and imaging technology. In addition, AdventHealth's 30,000-square-foot medical center within the facility will provide services including orthopedics, primary care, sports medicine imaging rehabilitation and more.

Article: https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2021/01/25/orlando-magic-downtown-training-center-debut-date.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_11&cx_artPos=3#cxrecs_s

[spenser1058]

Just the fact we’re not calling it “Amway” makes me happy...

[Tim3167]

Also, in a tweet from Josh Robbins of the Athletic Alex Martin’s was asked about the Sports and Entertainment District status and received this not so promising response. "Clearly, the pandemic has slowed things down. ... We believe by the end of this year, we'll start to see dirt turning on that SED site."

[F-L-A]

15 minutes ago, Tim3167 said:

Also, in a tweet from Josh Robbins of the Athletic Alex Martin’s was asked about the Sports and Entertainment District status and received this not so promising response. "Clearly, the pandemic has slowed things down. ... We believe by the end of this year, we'll start to see dirt turning on that SED site."

Anything that comes out of Alex Martins' mouth is "not so promising." 

[tc01]

2 hours ago, F-L-A said:

Anything that comes out of Alex Martins' mouth is "not so promising." 

I’m surprise this is actually getting built. Alex don’t know how to get things done.... 

[codypet]

4 hours ago, Tim3167 said:

Also, in a tweet from Josh Robbins of the Athletic Alex Martin’s was asked about the Sports and Entertainment District status and received this not so promising response. "Clearly, the pandemic has slowed things down. ... We believe by the end of this year, we'll start to see dirt turning on that SED site."

Another excuse.  Waiting for Under I was the last one.

[AmIReal]

1 hour ago, codypet said:

Another excuse.  Waiting for Under I was the last one.

So I'm still trying to figure out their plan. Invest a lot of money and let it sit idle so they can...?