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Orlando Magic Entertainment Complex [Proposed]


Dale

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On 3/26/2021 at 3:49 PM, Uncommon said:

Or just sell the damn land if the Magic have no intention of utilizing it. It’s an eyesore in a prime downtown location smfh 

That could be a dangerous gamble... at least the Magic has above average development planned for the lot. Otherwise there's always a developer looking to build a cheap low-rise mixed-use wooden apartment complex and then it would have all been for nothing. I have more faith in the Magic to do right by this land than an outside entity coming in and not seeing the true value/potential for that part of downtown.

IMO there should be fines levied against developers who tear down functional structures & leave the lot sitting vacant for years pending future plans. Or prevent buildings from being torn down unless financing is in hand to complete the project in it's entirety. For example, I'd rather have The Ballroom at Church St left intact (and possibly even in use) while we wait indefinitely for "Phase II" of Tremont Lincoln's Church Street Tower or whatever they're calling it now.

Edited by nite owℓ
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27 minutes ago, codypet said:

Sell the Magic Land to Lincoln and have them build their tower there and spare the ballroom at this point.

I seem to be in the minority on this but I never thought the ballroom was right for the site. You could squeeze Scarlett into a Victorian corset but not Tara.

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10 hours ago, codypet said:

Sell the Magic Land to Lincoln and have them build their tower there and spare the ballroom at this point.

Just curious:  How do you have them do something?  This applies to them buying what you want, and building what you want.  Isn't it kind of up to Lincoln what they buy and what they build?

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Lincoln has an excellent track record at doing what it says it will downtown, albeit on its own timeline.

Post-COVID, the model for the amount of office space firms require seems to be changing somewhat (the Times had a story just this morning on the changes in Manhattan from that) so it may be a while. Lincoln has done multifamily, lodging and retail as well so I trust they’ll find something that works.

The Magic, otoh, well, let’s just say they’re the opposite of Lincoln. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/29/nyregion/remote-work-coronavirus-pandemic.html?referringSource=articleShare

 

Edited by spenser1058
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27 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Lincoln has an excellent track record at doing what it says it will downtown, albeit on its own timeline.

Post-COVID, the model for the amount of office space firms require seems to be changing somewhat (the Times had a story just this morning on the changes in Manhattan from that) so it may be a while. Lincoln has done multifamily, lodging and retail as well so I trust they’ll find something that works.

The Magic, otoh, well, let’s just say they’re the opposite of Lincoln. 

It remains to be seen how long this new model will last. It very well could be a 2-3 year adjustment before we all go back to our old ways. I really don't know but I suspect we will be closer to the old model. 

On 3/27/2021 at 7:54 PM, nite owℓ said:

That could be a dangerous gamble... at least the Magic has above average development planned for the lot. Otherwise there's always a developer looking to build a cheap low-rise mixed-use wooden apartment complex and then it would have all been for nothing. I have more faith in the Magic to do right by this land than an outside entity coming in and not seeing the true value/potential for that part of downtown.

IMO there should be fines levied against developers who tear down functional structures & leave the lot sitting vacant for years pending future plans. Or prevent buildings from being torn down unless financing is in hand to complete the project in it's entirety. For example, I'd rather have The Ballroom at Church St left intact (and possibly even in use) while we wait indefinitely for "Phase II" of Tremont Lincoln's Church Street Tower or whatever they're calling it now.

That sounds like a "taking". 

Regardless, it may be years before anything happens. I wish it wasn't so but they missed their window. 

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5 minutes ago, jack said:

It remains to be seen how long this new model will last. It very well could be a 2-3 year adjustment before we all go back to our old ways. I really don't know but I suspect we will be closer to the old model. 

I’m not so sure. The major occupants for office space in downtown Orlando (insurance, banking and legal) were all downsizing even before COVID, so it strikes me as just an acceleration of a preexisting trend.

The other chief occupant downtown, government (at least local) has been steadily relocating to the ‘burbs for a while. That’s a trend not only applicable in OC but in Seminole, Volusia and Brevard as well, all of whom relocated much of county government away from the downtowns of their county seats.

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11 hours ago, jack said:

That sounds like a "taking".

Meh... the restrictions I mentioned earlier can & should be enacted by the City especially if the developer buys land/property from the city, uses city funds, or receives any CRA assistance for their project. Even if privately owned, a permit is required to demo a building in the first place and those rules should be built into the process to prevent properties from sitting undeveloped for years. Vacant lots contribute to blight/stagnation/erosion of character while the owner reaps the benefits of surrounding revitalization due to other developers investment.

Some cities tax land based on its zoning/highest use potential: "cities can redistribute the burden of property taxes by either taxing only the land, or taxing the land at a much higher percentage rate than the improvements. The latter is called a split-rate property tax. This way, those who wish to build or renovate something on their property will face no tax penalty for doing so. And those who wish to hold onto a vacant lot or use it for something low-value like parking—in effect freeloading off of the location value created by the productive uses to which their neighbors have put nearby land—will face a much higher tax burden." https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2019/3/5/whats-with-that-empty-lot-in-the-heart-of-the-city

Not saying any of my ideas are the solution, but I think there are thoughtful ways to implement changes (rather than just sitting on our hands and letting the problem fester).

Edited by nite owℓ
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Or, of course, the administration could have done its due diligence in the first place and not handed the Magic a sweetheart deal. You know, sort of like what just happened with the Jags. I know, I know, that’s not the Buddy way. How silly of me! Forget I mentioned it.

Edited by spenser1058
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7 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Or, of course, the administration could have done its due diligence in the first place and not handed the Magic a sweetheart deal in the first place. You know, sort of like what just happened with the Jags. I know, I know, that’s not the Buddy way. How silly of me! Forget I mentioned it.

Consider it done.

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10 hours ago, jack said:

It remains to be seen how long this new model will last. It very well could be a 2-3 year adjustment before we all go back to our old ways. I really don't know but I suspect we will be closer to the old model. 

 

I saw an article where Facebook and Microsoft will ask their employers to come back to the office soon 

 

 

ahh here it is 

https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/26/22352742/facebook-uber-microsoft-twitter-apple-covid-19-offices-reopening

 

 

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23 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

Meh... the restrictions I mentioned earlier can & should be enacted by the City especially if the developer buys land/property from the city, uses city funds, or receives any CRA assistance for their project. Even if privately owned, a permit is required to demo a building in the first place and those rules should be built into the process to prevent properties from sitting undeveloped for years. Vacant lots contribute to blight/stagnation/erosion of character while the owner reaps the benefits of surrounding revitalization due to other developers investment.

Some cities tax land based on its zoning/highest use potential: "cities can redistribute the burden of property taxes by either taxing only the land, or taxing the land at a much higher percentage rate than the improvements. The latter is called a split-rate property tax. This way, those who wish to build or renovate something on their property will face no tax penalty for doing so. And those who wish to hold onto a vacant lot or use it for something low-value like parking—in effect freeloading off of the location value created by the productive uses to which their neighbors have put nearby land—will face a much higher tax burden." https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2019/3/5/whats-with-that-empty-lot-in-the-heart-of-the-city

Not saying any of my ideas are the solution, but I think there are thoughtful ways to implement changes (rather than just sitting on our hands and letting the problem fester).

For city owned property, sure. Just make it clear at the time of purchase for all parties. For privately owned, not a fan. The cost of maintaining a crappy building while you figure out your development plan can be costly. And blighted buildings can be worse than vacant properties (but not always). 

I looked into the idea of taxing vacant land a higher rate about 15 years within the city of Orlando. It was one of those ideas that died on the vine. Its is a great idea in urban areas that are growing. Not so great in rural or depressed areas. 

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  • 4 weeks later...
3 hours ago, Uncommon said:

Well this is good news. Orlando Magic HQ are leaving Maitland for downtown Orlando and leasing space in CNL Center II tower. This is supposedly a temporary location for HQ, as they expect to break ground on the SED this year. 
The fact that the Magic are moving from Maitland makes this imminent groundbreaking appear more real. Either way, it can’t hurt to siphon 200 more high-paying workers from Maitland and place them in the heart of downtown Orlando. A win all around!

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2021/04/27/breaking-orlando-magic-to-relocate-hq-to.html

Interesting...

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  • 1 month later...
15 minutes ago, orange87 said:

Any new pics of the progress of the AdventHealth Orlando Magic Training Center?

Do you suppose the DeVoses have the Seventh Day Adventists selling Amway distributorships over there? Enquiring minds want to know…

Edited by spenser1058
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  • 3 weeks later...

If you’re keeping score at home, in 16 days it will be 7 1/2 years since City staff recommended a Sports and Entertainment District across from the Amway Center:

http://www.cityoforlando.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2014/05/MPBStaffReport2014-01_ZON2013-00029.pdf

By comparison, Walt Disney World went from a swamp to Opening Day in six. 
 

Edited by spenser1058
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2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

If you’re keeping score at home, in 16 days it will be 7 1/2 years since City staff recommended a Sports and Entertainment District across from the Amway Center:

http://www.cityoforlando.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2014/05/MPBStaffReport2014-01_ZON2013-00029.pdf

By comparison, Walt Disney World went from a swamp to Opening Day in six. 

I don't get it. What do the Magic owners gain by not building it? Save money? Then why get the land in the first place? Why would they choose to have an eyesore right next to their stadium?

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