Orlando Magic Entertainment Complex [Proposed]

[spenser1058]

3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

To be a "pyramid" I think you have to make money just from a new member joining.  With their system, you only make money when people you get in start using their products, and then you help them find new members, and so on and so on.  The problem with it is that their products were too expensive or used outdated tech.  They got really big around 1990 b/c of Desert Storm and the Buy American thing (i.e., be patriotic and buy a bunch of sh!t) .  Their stuff was "American."   

But I am still waiting for a reaction to my Wesley Crusher reference in the Sunrail thread...

It was never about the product (if you remember Glenn Turner of Koscot fame -he built the Seminole County “castle” and first erected that huge I4 billboard at Rio Grande), he copied their business model producing just enough product to stay clear of judges (many states have tightened up those rules over the years and pretty much sent Amway and its  ilk packing). Again, the question to ask is how many more bottles of Tide have you seen in your life than Amway? Most folks are like Hank and wouldn’t know an Amway product if it hit ‘em in the face. Put another way, I bet somewhere there’s a graduate of Trump University who actually found the “degree” useful, but they’re as hard to find as a bottle of Amway. It is not, and never has been , like Tupperware where the product was what mattered.

[jgardnerucf]

3 hours ago, jack said:

Vander Weide's fault

Yep.

[jrs2]

19 hours ago, jack said:

Wasn't that Vander Weide's fault? He was the CEO at the time. 

Perhaps.  Somebody here had stated that the whole bunch collectively were the problem.

18 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

It was never about the product (if you remember Glenn Turner of Koscot fame -he built the Seminole County “castle” and first erected that huge I4 billboard at Rio Grande), he copied their business model producing just enough product to stay clear of judges (many states have tightened up those rules over the years and pretty much sent Amway and its  ilk packing). Again, the question to ask is how many more bottles of Tide have you seen in your life than Amway? Most folks are like Hank and wouldn’t know an Amway product if it hit ‘em in the face. Put another way, I bet somewhere there’s a graduate of Trump University who actually found the “degree” useful, but they’re as hard to find as a bottle of Amway. It is not, and never has been , like Tupperware where the product was what mattered.

well, technically you are correct; they sold the "idea" and would shame you into buying inferior electronics and overpriced soap...so, yes...  There are still people in, say, Daytona, that have ads where they advertise Amway products believe it or not.  There's this one couple I met back then who still run ads to my shock because I thought that whole thing went by way of the Dodo.  They must still make money from that.

[spenser1058]

6 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Perhaps.  Somebody here had stated that the whole bunch collectively were the problem.

well, technically you are correct; they sold the "idea" and would shame you into buying inferior electronics and overpriced soap...so, yes...  There are still people in, say, Daytona, that have ads where they advertise Amway products believe it or not.  There's this one couple I met back then who still run ads to my shock because I thought that whole thing went by way of the Dodo.  They must still make money from that.

They’re the exception that proves the rule. In my lifetime, I was finagled into attending four of their presentations (try getting them to tell you who the company is - it’s easier to pull teeth without a anesthetic or dental instruments) and spent less than five minutes talking about the product. What matters is recruiting those down the chain from you. 

[JFW657]

When I was around 19 or 20, the father of one of my best friends from school owned a sports car repair shop. MG, Triumph, Jaguar, Lotus, Porsche, etc. My friend worked for his dad and as such, I used to hang out there a lot.

His dad was also into Amway and he always had a ready supply of potential suckers who were a captive audience to whom he was able to sales pitch... they being the shop customers who were in the office paying their car repair bills.

I'm sure they were usually eager to be nice and cooperative in hopes of getting any break on the repair price they could.

He was a real BS'er and kind of a shyster anyway, so it was a good fit.

Anyway, he tried like hell to get me involved in Amway for awhile.

I was a firm "NO SALE".  

[orange87]

23 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Perhaps.  Somebody here had stated that the whole bunch collectively were the problem.

well, technically you are correct; they sold the "idea" and would shame you into buying inferior electronics and overpriced soap...so, yes...  There are still people in, say, Daytona, that have ads where they advertise Amway products believe it or not.  There's this one couple I met back then who still run ads to my shock because I thought that whole thing went by way of the Dodo.  They must still make money from that.

My wife's cousin is a Haitian immigrant and he gets suckered into things like this all the time. Every couple months he has a "new way to make money." He did Amway for a while and his only customers were his family members he pestered and guilted into buying the Amway stuff. He tried to get me "in on the business" and said I should spend $4,000 on a truckload of Amway stuff and sell it. Now he's moved onto other Amway copycat scams.

[jrs2]

5 hours ago, orange87 said:

My wife's cousin is a Haitian immigrant and he gets suckered into things like this all the time. Every couple months he has a "new way to make money." He did Amway for a while and his only customers were his family members he pestered and guilted into buying the Amway stuff. He tried to get me "in on the business" and said I should spend $4,000 on a truckload of Amway stuff and sell it. Now he's moved onto other Amway copycat scams.

yes.  that's how they refer to it..."the business."  I forgot about that.

I'm not gonna toot the Devos horn, but I personally don't believe it's a scam. 

It's a simple equation:  you get in, use their products, get others in, and they do the same thing.  Repeat again and again.   However, if no one uses their products, then no one makes any money; it's as simple as that.  When that happens, people get discouraged, quit, call it a scam, and then people at large hear it and say it's a scam as well.  Which brings us here.  

This is the fairest assessment of that business.  It's about sales volume, like most businesses.

[dcluley98]

The business model is predicated upon exploiting social norms and personal relationship dynamics, included expected reciprocity and generosity of family and friends. 

If not a scam explicitly, it is scammy in nature just by its function and brings about some of the worst of human behavior in the guise of "sales" an d overarching greed. 

[spenser1058]

23 hours ago, jrs2 said:

yes.  that's how they refer to it..."the business."  I forgot about that.

I'm not gonna toot the Devos horn, but I personally don't believe it's a scam. 

It's a simple equation:  you get in, use their products, get others in, and they do the same thing.  Repeat again and again.   However, if no one uses their products, then no one makes any money; it's as simple as that.  When that happens, people get discouraged, quit, call it a scam, and then people at large hear it and say it's a scam as well.  Which brings us here.  

This is the fairest assessment of that business.  It's about sales volume, like most businesses.

Then why, if it’s so respectable, do they go to such great lengths not to tell you who they represent when they try to recruit you? Sorry, jrs2 , you drank the Kool-Aid on this one.

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Then why, if it’s so respectable, do they go to such great lengths not to tell you who they represent when they try to recruit you? Sorry, jrs2 , you drank the Kool-Aid on this one.

they had an answer for that as well.  They didn't want you to know the name "Amway" b/c of the negative moniker it had back in the day (pre-1990's); they wanted you to hear the "plan" first, assess it, then tell you the name of the company so then you would go "ahhhhh" and then join and explain away all of your elders' pre-conceived notions of "Amway.," because the younger people of the day didn't know who they were anyway.  Sometimes I wonder if they bought the Magic just to that the first thing people think of when they see that name is NBA and not soap, i.e., to help their main business with image.

[spenser1058]

36 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

they had an answer for that as well.  They didn't want you to know the name "Amway" b/c of the negative moniker it had back in the day (pre-1990's); they wanted you to hear the "plan" first, assess it, then tell you the name of the company so then you would go "ahhhhh" and then join and explain away all of your elders' pre-conceived notions of "Amway.," because the younger people of the day didn't know who they were anyway.  Sometimes I wonder if they bought the Magic just to that the first thing people think of when they see that name is NBA and not soap, i.e., to help their main business with image.

The name hasn’t gotten any better. Its reputation in the US is so bad they’re mostly concentrating internationally now. More rubes that have no clue what a scam it is. Sort of like saying you’re “tanking” a basketball team for a decade that never gets better. Or being picked to build an entertainment complex thanks to a mayor who’s in your back pocket without the slightest clue how to get it done. At least they get kudos for consistency.

Edited March 26, 2022 by spenser1058

[jrs2]

5 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

The business model is predicated upon exploiting social norms and personal relationship dynamics, included expected reciprocity and generosity of family and friends. 

If not a scam explicitly, it is scammy in nature just by its function and brings about some of the worst of human behavior in the guise of "sales" an d overarching greed. 

I wrote an essay and deleted it.  in short, we talk to people we know about work and money all the time; there's nothing wrong with telling people about a "business" endeavor of yours.  If they're interested, they ask.  If not, you and they move on.  And there's nothing wrong with wanting to make money to pay your bills.  You work, don't you?  To make money, right?  Alright then.

52 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

The name hasn’t gotten any better. Its reputation in the US is so bad they’re mostly concentrating internationally now. More rubes that have no clue what a scam it is. Sort of like saying you’re “tanking” a basketball team for a decade that never gets better. Or being picked to build an entertainment complex thanks to a mayor who’s in your back pocket without the slightest clue how to get it done. At least they get kudos for consistency.

I have to admit I was stunned when the Arena went from TD Ameritrade (right?) to Amway.  I thought...oh boy...how cheesy...fitting for Orlando which is already accused of being hokey on so many levels.

You think City Official Prime is an Amway distributor?  

They need to talk to the Good Ole Boys in Daytona and the Speedway on how to git an entertainment complex built 'rounds these parts.

[dcluley98]

I'm not saying anything is wrong to try to make money.  Exploiting desperate people as a giant corporate entity and preying on their needs and personal relationships is wrong, morally, IMHO. 

[jrs2]

10 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

I'm not saying anything is wrong to try to make money.  Exploiting desperate people as a giant corporate entity and preying on their needs and personal relationships is wrong, morally, IMHO. 

I met a lot of business professionals that joined this thing; far from desperate living situations.  The thing is that unfortunately in this country we’re all conditioned to be an employee; no one takes any risks except when they put their resume out there to get another job.  Scared money don’t make money, right?  Well, that’s why developers make a killing while everyone else sits on the sidelines criticizing and judging them, for example.  I do it.

But the Amway plan doesn’t work if people don’t use their products.  That’s their business plan.  That’s the business plan of 7-Eleven as well.  Just because you paid a franchise fee and opened up shop, well, if noone goes there to shop, you’re gonna end up closing your doors.  There are too many people making a living in Amway for it to be a scam.  If it really was a scam it would have ceased to exist forty years ago.  

The whole exploitation of personal relationships is no different than a lawyer, doctor, accountant, or realtor giving their business card to a family member, friend, or stranger to market their business/ services.  Every time you go out the door you market yourself, to your neighbors, coworkers, the clerk at the gas station, etc., whether you know it or not.   You make friends, look for companions, look for business contacts, look for products.  All Amway does is help you recognize that.  But it is an objective truth and it’s not an exploitation of interpersonal relationships.  And when you’re talking business, imagine telling an accountant that they are prohibited from handing out their card to people they know because it is not a “proper channel” of marketing and the only way they can market themselves is to buy a billboard or ad on Google and market the public at large.  Now that’s a monopolistic philosophy that favors the large corporations who can afford to do that and discriminates against the little guy.  And now what does that force you to do?  It forces you to be an employee of the big corporation.

My thing is to call these guys sheisters for the right reasons.

[jgardnerucf]

Sell this pen!

[jrs2]

6 hours ago, jgardnerucf said:

Sell this pen!

LMAO!  You quoted The Wolf!

OMG, I was thinking of that movie where they were saying ABC, always be closing; sales and marketers love that; that and The Wolf. 

I mean, dcluley98 (Go Gators) is correct in that some people take it too far with people with this stuff.  I've seen that; I've been around that.  I don't like that.  People are all wired differently.  It is what it is.

LOL>  You quoted The Wolf!

[AmIReal]

No porta potty on site yet, but the Magic say they are starting the MEC in early '23 with plans for completion in '25.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/08/31/orlando-magic-sports-entertainment-district-florid.html

[tc01]

4 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

No porta potty on site yet, but the Magic say they are starting the MEC in early '23 with plans for completion in '25.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/08/31/orlando-magic-sports-entertainment-district-florid.html

How many times have we heard this?!! This is ridiculous at this point…… A billion dollar franchise keeps kicking the can down the road on this project. Meanwhile, others cities completed their entertainment complexes…

[Tim3167]

Yeah, opened the article excited for some actual news and was pretty underwhelmed. In related news I hope to win the lottery sometime next year as well.

[tc01]

Orlando Magic and AdventHealth Unveil State-of-the-Art AdventHealth Training Center

https://www.nba.com/magic/news/orlando-magic-and-adventhealth-unveil-state-of-the-art-adventhealth-training-center-20220831

[jrs2]

^^

look at the numbers in that article.  that place is so ClubWalt it's ridiculous.  "...we do!..."

[JFW657]

9 hours ago, AmIReal said:

No porta potty on site yet, but the Magic say they are starting the MEC in early '23 with plans for completion in '25.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/08/31/orlando-magic-sports-entertainment-district-florid.html

 

 

[codypet]

Oh yea right.

https://i.gifer.com/Qjr.gif

Edited September 1, 2022 by codypet

[spenser1058]

4 minutes ago, codypet said:

Oh yea right.

https://i.gifer.com/Qjr.gif

Now that the Training Center has brought together two of Orlando’s most right-leaning organizations, I’m looking forward to an MEC with a Chick-Fil-A, a Hobby Lobby and a Publix..!

[jrs2]

3 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Now that the Training Center has brought together two of Orlando’s most right-leaning organizations, I’m looking forward to an MEC with a Chick-Fil-A, a Hobby Lobby and a Publix..!

I love chips n salsa.  I need chips, though. 

think I can borrow the chips on you shoulder?

thx