Holland Home - Fulton St.

[EastownLeo]

"Many ideas are being considered, including selling a portion of the building for affordable housing for seniors and expanding the organization's PACE program, which currently operates at Fulton Manor."

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2017/11/one_of_grand_rapids_oldest_sen.html

Or can they sell the full property and open it for redevelopment?

Could Aquinas buy the property for expansion?

Would retail area do well here?

Better for mixed use or just apartments?

Row houses/student housing?

map view

Edited November 6, 2017 by EastownLeo

[GR_Urbanist]

This is exciting!

I dont want to see Aquinas exclusively get this because their development style is a bit too E. Beltline-ish for this important corner, They love setbacks too much, and they dont build "tight" enough mainly due to the woodland setting of the college. If they get this, I just see more parking lots,  and buildings with setbacks from the street.

I want to see a project that will complement the other side of Carlton that will form a solid eastern gateway to the E. Fulton district, as well as a nice bookend on the street with Eastown to the south, on the other end of Carlton. I especially hate the elevation differential that exists with the current HH site and Carlton, and would hope that any building will eliminate the grass and wall that exists there now.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9626923,-85.6359971,3a,75y,154.85h,95.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5EJHLA9BSPd_ywo5MD1RJA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Hopefully one day Family Fare will rebuild their store  at the street, and really complete the intersection.

 

A series of really nice apartments + mixed use will be a win for the college and the local businesses.

[EastownLeo]

A flyer has been circulated about the Old Fulton Manor property becoming a "Emergency Shelter" for up to 116 families.

The flyer mentions Family Promise of Grand Rapids asking for a special land use.

Many of the Eastown residents commenting on the announcement seem to be in favor of it.

[GR_Urbanist]

So they were adamantly against a gas station in the same general area because of fear of property values, but they are in favor of what is a homeless shelter, with a nicer name, for 116 families? Family Promise of Grand Rapids seems like a nice enough and professional outfit, and I'm sure people are saying they are in favor of it in public, but when this goes up for public discussion and letters, I dont see that lasting for more than a hot second.

 

People really need to cross-examine this idea, and non-profit, honestly and thoroughly before moving something like this into that neighborhood.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by GR_Urbanist

[GRLaker]

1 hour ago, GR_Urbanist said:

So they were adamantly against a gas station in the same general area because of fear of property values, but they are in favor of what is a homeless shelter, with a nicer name, for 116 families? Family Promise of Grand Rapids seems like a nice enough and professional outfit, and I'm sure people are saying they are in favor of it in public, but when this goes up for public discussion and letters, I dont see that lasting for than a hot second.

 

People really need to cross-examine this idea and non-profit honestly and thoroughly before moving something like this into that neighborhood.

 

 

Yeah...This is going to go over like a lead balloon. I would bet on this not coming to fruition. If it does, I would fully expect surrounding properties to be as tempting to purchase as your average property on Division.

[GRDadof3]

6 hours ago, GR_Urbanist said:

So they were adamantly against a gas station in the same general area because of fear of property values, but they are in favor of what is a homeless shelter, with a nicer name, for 116 families? Family Promise of Grand Rapids seems like a nice enough and professional outfit, and I'm sure people are saying they are in favor of it in public, but when this goes up for public discussion and letters, I dont see that lasting for more than a hot second.

 

People really need to cross-examine this idea, and non-profit, honestly and thoroughly before moving something like this into that neighborhood.

 

 

Agreed, this proposal will go nowhere. 

[twoshort]

The Family Promise proposal was supported by the neighborhood association and was approved today.

https://www.facebook.com/CityofGrandRapids/videos/2003858503026667/

Edited December 13, 2018 by twoshort

[GR_Urbanist]

*facepalm*

Well good luck to you guys in Eastown, and Wilcox Park. Hopefully your altruism wont bite you all in the rear.

[GRLaker]

1 minute ago, GR_Urbanist said:

*facepalm*

Well good luck to you guys in Eastown, and Wilcox Park. Hopefully your altruism wont bite you all in the rear.

They’ll learn when it comes time to sell. No one will actively desire to live by a 100+ family homeless shelter. 

[walker]

I think there is a bit of uncharitable over reaction here.  First; according to the Mlive article, Family Promise only has a one-year lease, after which time Holland Home intends to redevelop or sell the property.  I realize temporary could become permanent but the time to become concerned, if there is a reason to be concerned, is near the end of the lease.  

MLIVE: former-grand-rapids-senior-housing-complex-turning-into-homeless-shelter

Second; my son used to volunteer for them several years ago when they were on Division, the clients are not the type of homeless you see loitering and causing trouble around the missions.  When he volunteered there, they were for the most part women with children with few resources that are having some kind of domestic and/or money problems and had nowhere to live.  I think increasingly there also may be entire families who cannot find housing due to the shortage of affordable low-cost housing that we’ve documented here the last couple of years.

Of course, the way this is being sold is that this is just a temporary surge in demand for housing for these people.  How they expect this problem in supply may be solved in a year isn’t mentioned.

I don’t live in the neighborhood but I do live a few houses down from an adult foster home.  It’s not quite the same but it has never been a problem.  I’ve also lived nearby a home for juvenile delinquents.  OK, that was a bit of an annoyance but not too bad, and this will not be anything like that.         
 

Edited December 14, 2018 by walker

[GRDadof3]

17 hours ago, twoshort said:

The Family Promise proposal was supported by the neighborhood association and was approved today.

https://www.facebook.com/CityofGrandRapids/videos/2003858503026667/

Ha! Well what do I know. 

[GR_Urbanist]

1 hour ago, walker said:

I think there is a bit of uncharitable over reaction here.  First; according to the Mlive article, Family Promise only has a one-year lease, after which time Holland Home intends to redevelop or sell the property.  I realize temporary could become permanent but the time to become concerned, if there is a reason to be concerned, is near the end of the lease.  

MLIVE: former-grand-rapids-senior-housing-complex-turning-into-homeless-shelter

Second; my son used to volunteer for them several years ago when they were on Division, the clients are not the type of homeless you see loitering and causing trouble around the missions.  When he volunteered there, they were for the most part women with children with few resources that are having some kind of domestic and/or money problems and had nowhere to live.  I think increasingly there also may be entire families who cannot find housing due to the shortage of affordable low-cost housing that we’ve documented here the last couple of years.

Of course, the way this is being sold is that this is just a temporary surge in demand for housing for these people.  How they expect this problem in supply may be solved in a year isn’t mentioned.

I don’t live in the neighborhood but I do live a few houses down from an adult foster home.  It’s not quite the same but it has never been a problem.  I’ve also lived nearby a home for juvenile delinquents.  OK, that was a bit of an annoyance but not too bad, and this will not be anything like that.         
 

It's a matter of if this is actually "temporary" or a selling point get it approved while they then work to make it permanent under the table.

 

 Then there are red flags like selling the family aspect of it, while then stating that they are hiring a bunch of security guards. Why do you need security guards? It reminds me of what Stuyvesant Apartments has to contend with.

 

Are people and "guests" going to be coming and going as they please? That is another issue. Are the people that run this operation actually on top of things, or will they slack off and look the other way when problems crop up? Will this overwhelm them?

Also, where are the kids there going to go to school? Are these two-parent intact families or single parents? Are these parents working? If so, are there responsible adults to supervise the kids if necessary? How old are the kids in these units? Are these folks just expected to stay pined-up in apartments made for elderly people when they are there?

 

I was watching the Wood TV report on this, and the lady that spoke against it, lived right next door, and she was right to be concerned that a home she bought next to a quiet senior-living facility, is now for a year, as we are told now, going to be a homeless shelter for at least 80 families in an unfortunate chaotic situation, which will be over 150-200 people eaisly, living in very close quarters, in a place not built for it. Sadly I think that today's" get along, go along" climate makes being in opposition to stuff like this a dicey proposition, so a lot of people are kind of staying mute, and hoping for the best. If this becomes permanent, it will dip their home values significantly. There is just no dancing around that.

 

It will either work out ok, or it's really going to not going to work out ok.

Compassion simply isnt a cover here. This arrangement had better be a tight operation from A to Z, with no lose ends. It isnt fair to the people that have to stay there, and it isnt fair to the people that live in the surrounding area.

[GRLaker]

I guess I don't see how pointing out the folly of this project makes one uncharitable...I donate hundreds every year and support public safety net programs. I consider myself progressive and believe places like this should exist. However...That does not mean that location is the right location. It quite simply is not. East Town has seen a great deal of growth in development and value to the area lately. To stick a homeless shelter into the equation is to do the area's trajectory no justice. It will damage the property values around it, no matter how "family oriented" it may be. Sorry, but that is just the truth. Combined with East Town, you also have Aquinas bordering this facility. The women of that school have historically had enough reasons to fear for their safety on and around their campus, causing the school to increase patrols. Now they're going to add a homeless shelter to the mix? And finally...If I owned one of the million+ dollar homes directly to the southeast of Aquinas, I would not be pleased to learn of 150-200 homeless people now living in a central location only a block from my home. This effects their property values just as much.

If this ends up being a one year only thing, then in the end this argument is pointless. But as Urbanist said, will it actually end up being temporary? The funny thing about unwelcome guests is that they typically don't like to leave once they've made themselves at home. 

At the end of the day, it means nothing to me personally. I don't live there. It doesn't have a negative effect on me. However, I don't see it going well for that area. No good deed goes unpunished.

Edited December 14, 2018 by GRLaker

[joeDowntown]

Part of me is happy they found a nice facility. Part of me worries about the neighborhood and I can empathize with surrounding land owners worries (though as Walker said, a family homeless shelter probably draws a bit of a different crowd/feel than a traditional homeless shelter). 

What I'm most shocked by, is that Aquinas didn't gobble the land up. They've put a lot of money into the Fulton side of campus, and they're land-locked. You'd think it would have been an ideal spot for future expansion.

Joe

[ProtoSapien]

If the economy takes a nose dive in the coming year as some are predicting, this could become a whole lot less temporary.

[EastownLeo]

8 minutes ago, ProtoSapien said:

If the economy takes a nose dive in the coming year as some are predicting, this could become a whole lot less temporary.

Or aquinas waits for the price to come down and buys up much needed land to expand dorms and other spacial needs.

[RegalTDP]

6 hours ago, walker said:

I think there is a bit of uncharitable over reaction here.  First; according to the Mlive article, Family Promise only has a one-year lease, after which time Holland Home intends to redevelop or sell the property.  I realize temporary could become permanent but the time to become concerned, if there is a reason to be concerned, is near the end of the lease.  

MLIVE: former-grand-rapids-senior-housing-complex-turning-into-homeless-shelter

Second; my son used to volunteer for them several years ago when they were on Division, the clients are not the type of homeless you see loitering and causing trouble around the missions.  When he volunteered there, they were for the most part women with children with few resources that are having some kind of domestic and/or money problems and had nowhere to live.  I think increasingly there also may be entire families who cannot find housing due to the shortage of affordable low-cost housing that we’ve documented here the last couple of years.

Of course, the way this is being sold is that this is just a temporary surge in demand for housing for these people.  How they expect this problem in supply may be solved in a year isn’t mentioned.

I don’t live in the neighborhood but I do live a few houses down from an adult foster home.  It’s not quite the same but it has never been a problem.  I’ve also lived nearby a home for juvenile delinquents.  OK, that was a bit of an annoyance but not too bad, and this will not be anything like that.         
 

My family has worked with Family Promise through Interfaith Hospitality Network and our experience with the families in that program align with Walker's.  Quite a few churches in the GR area participate in IHN, and a church near *your* house may already be hosting homeless families periodically.  Bet you didn't even notice.

 

Edited December 14, 2018 by RegalTDP

[organsnyder]

4 hours ago, RegalTDP said:

My family has worked with Family Promise through Interfaith Hospitality Network and our experience with the families in that program align with Walker's.  Quite a few churches in the GR area participate in IHN, and a church near *your* house may already be hosting homeless families periodically.  Bet you didn't even notice.

+1

My church has been hosting families through IHN for almost two decades. Never heard of there being any kind of incident.

[twoshort]

3 hours ago, organsnyder said:

+1

My church has been hosting families through IHN for almost two decades. Never heard of there being any kind of incident.

Ours does too.  In a quiet SE side neighborhood.  And I bet no one knows.  5 families or whatever our church hosts doesn’t equal 100, but I think people (on here) are way over reacting.  There were maybe 4 letters of opposition and 20 or so support.  

[GR_Urbanist]

Maybe what's being missed here is that this isnt 1 or 4 families dispersed throughout a broad area?

 

This is a minimum of 80 (eaisly more) families of 3-4 people each in one building, in the middle of a residential neighborhood. The problem isnt the people, it's the scale and the concentration. I cant find any information if something of this size has been done in GR before.

 

Like I said, I hope this organization can deal with something of this scale, because if they cant, unlike nobody noticing a single family in one home, people will know if it goes off the rails here.

 

 

[uncus]

I'm not sure how many people went to the open house they hosted at Fulton manor last week, but I did and here are the numbers i heard:

 

-While the maximum number of families are 116, they will start with about 40 and expect a maximum of about 80

-  The average stay for a family in this program is about 20 days

- 78% of the family are single female headed households 

-  60% of the people are children, and 65% of those children are under 6 years old

- 70% of the families have income/jobs 

- 20% of families drive their own cars.  Most take public transportation

- There is a curfew, and no-one who doesn't live or work in the building is allowed in or out.  24/7 security is there to ensure that.

- A common scenario for these families is a mother and children escaping domestic violence

-90% of families exit to permanent housing.

Not all the previous resident rooms are going to be used.  The project is only going to use a portion of building

And its not just one organization running this.  Family Promise, ICCF, Salvation Army, Mel Trotter, Degage, City of Grand Rapids, Kent County, GR area coalition  to end homelessness, United way, MI Dhss, and various other community foundation are lending support.

The majority of individual letters to the commission offered support.  Also,  Eastown and Midtown neighborhood associations, Aquinas, Abney academy, and neighborhood churches supported.    

 

I don't live right next to the property, but i live close.  I would be happy to live next door.    I really don't see much difference between this and having several hundred elderly people living here- except less traffic. 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by uncus

[joeDowntown]

Thanks for the details Uncus. Sounds like an interesting project. 

Joe

[wingbert]

This sounds like a caring and generous solution - especially hearing about it at this time of year.  And, since it is really nowhere near my backyard, I fully support this endeavor.

[uncus]

United way has posted an update.  200 families including 400 children served.

https://www.hwmuw.org/blog/2019/8/26/fulton-manor-six-months-in-over-200-families-sheltered

Drove by today.   Looks much more quite than in the past.  Very few cars in the parking lots.

 

 

[walker]

I guess the shelter really did turn out to be temporary:

MLIVE: temporary-family-homeless-shelter-in-grand-rapids-is-closing