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28 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

Can anyone else confirm The Sobro is not doing well? 

It wouldn't really surprise me. I mean, it's about to be eclipsed by 505 as the nicest place in town, so it's rents are suddenly not so appealing.

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1 hour ago, Nathan_in_DC said:

It wouldn't really surprise me. I mean, it's about to be eclipsed by 505 as the nicest place in town, so it's rents are suddenly not so appealing.

However I’ve heard that the 505 is not very nice inside, more like a mid-level hotel... I’ll be at an event there in two weeks so I’m interested to see the inside.

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1 hour ago, NashvilleObserver said:

However I’ve heard that the 505 is not very nice inside, more like a mid-level hotel... I’ll be at an event there in two weeks so I’m interested to see the inside.

If I remember correctly somebody on here toured the SoBro a while back and posted some interiors of the units and they really did not look good. The concrete ceiling just made it look unfinished and I remember there being a lot of other misguided interior design choices as well. Combine that with high rents and no views and I could see why it may not be doing as well. 

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I haven't gathered data on the SoBro since I toured last February but at the time occupancy was very underwhelming.    I do know folks that live in the SoBro that have said some Airbnb's are being run out of there.  IMO, the most telling data point that we are at a peak is that TG signed an agreement to short term lease 1/3 of 505 on Stay Alfred.     If TG, who has many more data points then the rest of us, decides tp make 1/3 of his most prized (to this point) property a party hotel, what data is he seeing that we haven't yet?

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Which is why the other tower for apartments in the proposal on 2nd Avenue being dropped is not a shocker. Nashville has a full plate of food that needs to be eaten first and then go from there.

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Building much more luxury apartment housing in the core doesn’t make sense to me now. I know Nashville is gaining population at a high rate but I just don’t know if there are enough people who either a) can afford to, or b) want to live in apartments averaging $2500 per month for 1 bedroom. Thats banking a lot on enough singles or childless couples that make that high of an income and want to live downtown as opposed to anywhere else in Nashville. The past month or so we’ve seen two huge residential developments in the core that were cancelled or downsized (buckingham gulch and SAP), so I think developers are thinking the same thing. The hope I have is that when a lot of the office projects that are still under construction or are proposed (222, Bridgestone, capitol View, 5+broad, Nashville yards, KVB mainland, 12th and Demonbreun, etc) are finished, that the demand rises again.

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This project is described as residential, no indication if for sale or rent.  Can anyone comment on the condo market vs. rental?  Banks have been willing to lend on apartments, it seems, but developers only want to build luxury apartments and the market for that is limited.  Whereas the condo market has not been favored by banks lately it seems to me, but I believe there is demand in Nashville.  Statements from Skyhouse, The Sobro, and others have been very modest in expectation. 

In our extremely unequal society, condos are seen as a way of storing wealth, esp. by the international wealthy.  In countries like Russia and China where property rights are insecure, Western condos are seen as a safe place to store money.  This is a huge factor in London where they say there are are blocks of largely empty condos owned by Russian oligarchs, but I don't know if it has reached the interior of the US yet.  I don't approve, but if Nashville can cash in and collect tax revenues from the idle rich, let's do so and use it to fund transit.  Look at the incredible infrastructure projects in London (Crossrail, etc.).  

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28 minutes ago, Neigeville2 said:

...condos are seen as a way of storing wealth, esp. by the international wealthy.  In countries like Russia and China where property rights are insecure, Western condos are seen as a safe place to store money.  This is a huge factor in London where they say there are are blocks of largely empty condos owned by Russian oligarchs, but I don't know if it has reached the interior of the US yet.  I don't approve, but if Nashville can cash in and collect tax revenues from the idle rich, let's do so and use it to fund transit.  Look at the incredible infrastructure projects in London (Crossrail, etc.).  

China has had an dramatically increasing interest in developing building in NYC, but I can't say that I've seen too many from Russia. I can't say that I approve also but if China ever wants to invest in a Nashville supertall I will be waiting at the airport for the developer waving a welcome flag. But also, according to the London Crossrail website, over 60%of funding for the Crossrail (which was very much needed) came from London taxpayers and businesses. Heck, If China wants to invest in a Nashville underground transit that could be cool too!

1 hour ago, Pdt2f said:

Building much more luxury apartment housing in the core doesn’t make sense to me now. The past month or so we’ve seen two huge residential developments in the core that were cancelled or downsized... so I think developers are thinking the same thing. The hope I have is... when office projects that are still under construction or are proposed... are finished, that the demand rises again.

I sadly think that is the case. Being involved in interior planning, I know how long it took 1212 to be completely sold, so I can only imagine how long it would take for the 505 condos, let alone this tower, to be completely sold out, which says nothing for apartments of course. But seeing as how the 505 includes them in the same building I know that they have had far more interest in the condos than the apartments, from a friend who is in charge of both, and unfortunately both have had unfortunately low interest; far below what was expected. And also unfortunately downtown offices have nothing to do with downtown residences. I had a job recently for someone who works in the Bridgestone and he told me  that literally every single person on the floor above and below him lives in Williamson County. and he hasn't met a single person in the Bridgestone office who lives downtown. 

2 hours ago, thenorthchannel said:

I do know folks that live in the SoBro that have said some Airbnb's are being run out of there.  IMO, the most telling data point that we are at a peak is that TG signed an agreement to short term lease 1/3 of 505 on Stay Alfred. 

I don't recall the SoBro being touted as any type of "upscale" apartment tower so this doesn't surprise me. I had a friend who lived there over the summer and moved out last week. It was apparently very underwhelming. 

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My favorite thing about this is how it makes Westin's botched design look less abnormal, like the design wasn't the result of a tight wallet with too many hands in the pot. It helps it to blend in better rather than sticking out like some sort of shiny, lone buttress.

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21 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

I still give this project a 7.5% chance of happening. If The Sobro and 505 CST are struggling now...

I share your scepticism, but keep in mind that if this project starts maybe next fall (it could definitely start later), it would probably be spring of 2020 before it would be open for business. That’s a lot of time for those other buildings to fill. 

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Not a whole lot about this project. Just additional land acquired by the developers of the residential tower:  https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2018/03/27/new-orleans-group-doubling-sobro-land-featuring.html

Brian Gibbs, a principal in the group, confirmed to the Nashville Business Journal that he and his partners are under contract to buy properties from an entity controlled by Arnie Malham, who founded the firm CJ Advertising. 

On one site, 805 Lea Ave., the Metropolitan Development and Housing Agency has preliminarily approved an apartment tower containing about 375 units. 

No construction start is imminent on the tower, Gibbs wrote in an email.

The two other sites the New Orleans group is buying are at 300 and 308 10th Ave. S., including the building where CJ Advertising had been located. Malham sold that company in January to a group of lawyers based in Baton Rouge, La. The new owners are relocating the company to downtown's L&C Tower. 

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