805 Lea, 29 stories, 310', 356 residential units, 10,500 sq. ft. retail, 321 car garage

[Nathan_in_DC]

28 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

Can anyone else confirm The Sobro is not doing well? 

It wouldn't really surprise me. I mean, it's about to be eclipsed by 505 as the nicest place in town, so it's rents are suddenly not so appealing.

[NashvilleObserver]

1 hour ago, Nathan_in_DC said:

It wouldn't really surprise me. I mean, it's about to be eclipsed by 505 as the nicest place in town, so it's rents are suddenly not so appealing.

However I’ve heard that the 505 is not very nice inside, more like a mid-level hotel... I’ll be at an event there in two weeks so I’m interested to see the inside.

[henburg]

1 hour ago, NashvilleObserver said:

However I’ve heard that the 505 is not very nice inside, more like a mid-level hotel... I’ll be at an event there in two weeks so I’m interested to see the inside.

If I remember correctly somebody on here toured the SoBro a while back and posted some interiors of the units and they really did not look good. The concrete ceiling just made it look unfinished and I remember there being a lot of other misguided interior design choices as well. Combine that with high rents and no views and I could see why it may not be doing as well. 

[thenorthchannel]

I haven't gathered data on the SoBro since I toured last February but at the time occupancy was very underwhelming.    I do know folks that live in the SoBro that have said some Airbnb's are being run out of there.  IMO, the most telling data point that we are at a peak is that TG signed an agreement to short term lease 1/3 of 505 on Stay Alfred.     If TG, who has many more data points then the rest of us, decides tp make 1/3 of his most prized (to this point) property a party hotel, what data is he seeing that we haven't yet?

[NashRugger]

Which is why the other tower for apartments in the proposal on 2nd Avenue being dropped is not a shocker. Nashville has a full plate of food that needs to be eaten first and then go from there.

[Pdt2f]

Building much more luxury apartment housing in the core doesn’t make sense to me now. I know Nashville is gaining population at a high rate but I just don’t know if there are enough people who either a) can afford to, or b) want to live in apartments averaging $2500 per month for 1 bedroom. Thats banking a lot on enough singles or childless couples that make that high of an income and want to live downtown as opposed to anywhere else in Nashville. The past month or so we’ve seen two huge residential developments in the core that were cancelled or downsized (buckingham gulch and SAP), so I think developers are thinking the same thing. The hope I have is that when a lot of the office projects that are still under construction or are proposed (222, Bridgestone, capitol View, 5+broad, Nashville yards, KVB mainland, 12th and Demonbreun, etc) are finished, that the demand rises again.

[Neigeville2]

This project is described as residential, no indication if for sale or rent.  Can anyone comment on the condo market vs. rental?  Banks have been willing to lend on apartments, it seems, but developers only want to build luxury apartments and the market for that is limited.  Whereas the condo market has not been favored by banks lately it seems to me, but I believe there is demand in Nashville.  Statements from Skyhouse, The Sobro, and others have been very modest in expectation. 

In our extremely unequal society, condos are seen as a way of storing wealth, esp. by the international wealthy.  In countries like Russia and China where property rights are insecure, Western condos are seen as a safe place to store money.  This is a huge factor in London where they say there are are blocks of largely empty condos owned by Russian oligarchs, but I don't know if it has reached the interior of the US yet.  I don't approve, but if Nashville can cash in and collect tax revenues from the idle rich, let's do so and use it to fund transit.  Look at the incredible infrastructure projects in London (Crossrail, etc.).  

[NashvilleObserver]

28 minutes ago, Neigeville2 said:

...condos are seen as a way of storing wealth, esp. by the international wealthy.  In countries like Russia and China where property rights are insecure, Western condos are seen as a safe place to store money.  This is a huge factor in London where they say there are are blocks of largely empty condos owned by Russian oligarchs, but I don't know if it has reached the interior of the US yet.  I don't approve, but if Nashville can cash in and collect tax revenues from the idle rich, let's do so and use it to fund transit.  Look at the incredible infrastructure projects in London (Crossrail, etc.).  

China has had an dramatically increasing interest in developing building in NYC, but I can't say that I've seen too many from Russia. I can't say that I approve also but if China ever wants to invest in a Nashville supertall I will be waiting at the airport for the developer waving a welcome flag. But also, according to the London Crossrail website, over 60%of funding for the Crossrail (which was very much needed) came from London taxpayers and businesses. Heck, If China wants to invest in a Nashville underground transit that could be cool too!

1 hour ago, Pdt2f said:

Building much more luxury apartment housing in the core doesn’t make sense to me now. The past month or so we’ve seen two huge residential developments in the core that were cancelled or downsized... so I think developers are thinking the same thing. The hope I have is... when office projects that are still under construction or are proposed... are finished, that the demand rises again.

I sadly think that is the case. Being involved in interior planning, I know how long it took 1212 to be completely sold, so I can only imagine how long it would take for the 505 condos, let alone this tower, to be completely sold out, which says nothing for apartments of course. But seeing as how the 505 includes them in the same building I know that they have had far more interest in the condos than the apartments, from a friend who is in charge of both, and unfortunately both have had unfortunately low interest; far below what was expected. And also unfortunately downtown offices have nothing to do with downtown residences. I had a job recently for someone who works in the Bridgestone and he told me  that literally every single person on the floor above and below him lives in Williamson County. and he hasn't met a single person in the Bridgestone office who lives downtown. 

2 hours ago, thenorthchannel said:

I do know folks that live in the SoBro that have said some Airbnb's are being run out of there.  IMO, the most telling data point that we are at a peak is that TG signed an agreement to short term lease 1/3 of 505 on Stay Alfred. 

I don't recall the SoBro being touted as any type of "upscale" apartment tower so this doesn't surprise me. I had a friend who lived there over the summer and moved out last week. It was apparently very underwhelming. 

[NashvilleObserver]

On 11/20/2017 at 7:54 PM, fieldmarshaldj said:

Rectangle box + square box + planter base.

*sigh*

An empty parking lot turned into a vibrant high-rise development and yet people are against it...

*sigh*

[titanhog]

So, does this mean residents are paying "luxury" prices for sub-luxury apartments and condos downtown?  If so, I would imagine we're about to see some great deals, similar to what happened in the Adelecia, Icon, Terrazo, etc in the last cycle.  People who purchased have some serious equity built up.  If the prices go down on these new condos,  I bet there will again be some serious equity earned in 5-10 years.

[bigeasy]

7 hours ago, NashvilleObserver said:

 And also unfortunately downtown offices have nothing to do with downtown residences. I had a job recently for someone who works in the Bridgestone and he told me  that literally every single person on the floor above and below him lives in Williamson County. and he hasn't met a single person in the Bridgestone office who lives downtown. 

I am not really sure if Bridgestone would be a good comparison since it just opened downtown like 2 months ago. Many of the people there have probably been with the company for years, have families, and probably the income to live in Williamson county. If anything their commutes are probably shorter now for those people in Williamson County since they don't have to go 440 to get to old building. Hopefully as those people leave the company they will be replaced by a younger workforce that is willing to live/work downtown. I know 3 people that work at Bridgestone, and 2 of those live  within probably 2-3 miles of the building. The other has been with the company for 20-30 years

[jmtunafish]

56 minutes ago, bigeasy said:

I am not really sure if Bridgestone would be a good comparison since it just opened downtown like 2 months ago. Many of the people there have probably been with the company for years, have families, and probably the income to live in Williamson county. If anything their commutes are probably shorter now for those people in Williamson County since they don't have to go 440 to get to old building. Hopefully as those people leave the company they will be replaced by a younger workforce that is willing to live/work downtown. I know 3 people that work at Bridgestone, and 2 of those live  within probably 2-3 miles of the building. The other has been with the company for 20-30 years

I know a few people who work at Bridgestone, and they all live in Mt Juliet.  They were thrilled that Bridgestone went downtown because now they can just take the train to work.

[fieldmarshaldj]

10 hours ago, NashvilleObserver said:

An empty parking lot turned into a vibrant high-rise development and yet people are against it...

*sigh*

I'm not against it. I'm just rather tired of the same banal type design, especially the always-hideous "planter" base. Put that underground and let the tower portion rise from street level.

[markhollin]

MDHA approves the concept for the 35 story apt. bldg:

https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/development/article/20986553/metro-oks-plan-for-35story-sobro-tower

[Tennessine]

Not a breathtaking design for this highrise, but this is a great step toward building up the area between south Broadway and the Gulch. The height of this building is very promising for future development.  We'll be blocking off the Westin from all sides in no time 

[xtianpoop]

My favorite thing about this is how it makes Westin's botched design look less abnormal, like the design wasn't the result of a tight wallet with too many hands in the pot. It helps it to blend in better rather than sticking out like some sort of shiny, lone buttress.

[Pdt2f]

I like this project. I mean, it’s not like the Chrysler building or anything, but it’s adding to an area that is seeing an increasing amount of vertical construction. It raises the eyes upwards, adds density in building and population, and provides retail, bridging the Gulch and Sobro (as someone else pointed out). If this gets built I think it and the mainland KVB project are really going to spark more development in that area. 

[nashvylle]

I still give this project a 7.5% chance of happening. If The Sobro and 505 CST are struggling now...

[Pdt2f]

21 minutes ago, nashvylle said:

I still give this project a 7.5% chance of happening. If The Sobro and 505 CST are struggling now...

I share your scepticism, but keep in mind that if this project starts maybe next fall (it could definitely start later), it would probably be spring of 2020 before it would be open for business. That’s a lot of time for those other buildings to fill. 

[markhollin]

Looking south at the site (square in middle of frame) from 27th floor of Westin Hotel:

 

[Nathan_in_DC]

On 12/20/2017 at 12:15 PM, nashvylle said:

I still give this project a 7.5% chance of happening. If The Sobro and 505 CST are struggling now...

I think demand is definitely there, just not at the price point that 505 and SoBro are asking. It's that weird area where they have have a product in high demand but they have priced them outside of what the majority of the market can afford, let alone is willing to pay. This just goes to show how much Nashville needs more housing stock that isn't so-called luxury apartments or condos, but rather stock priced more to appeal to middle class renters. Unfortunately, it's also a sign of a bubble that if it collapses could scare away builders and developers that would otherwise be willing to invest in something other than super high end properties.

[Pdt2f]

23 minutes ago, Nathan_in_DC said:

I think demand is definitely there, just not at the price point that 505 and SoBro are asking. It's that weird area where they have have a product in high demand but they have priced them outside of what the majority of the market can afford, let alone is willing to pay. This just goes to show how much Nashville needs more housing stock that isn't so-called luxury apartments or condos, but rather stock priced more to appeal to middle class renters. Unfortunately, it's also a sign of a bubble that if it collapses could scare away builders and developers that would otherwise be willing to invest in something other than super high end properties.

Exactly. The issue isn’t that there is too much housing, the issue is that most of the new residential in the core is “luxury apartments/condos.” Middle class, reasonably-priced housing would be snapped up in a heartbeat. 

[MLBrumby]

Not a whole lot about this project. Just additional land acquired by the developers of the residential tower:  https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2018/03/27/new-orleans-group-doubling-sobro-land-featuring.html

Brian Gibbs, a principal in the group, confirmed to the Nashville Business Journal that he and his partners are under contract to buy properties from an entity controlled by Arnie Malham, who founded the firm CJ Advertising. 

On one site, 805 Lea Ave., the Metropolitan Development and Housing Agency has preliminarily approved an apartment tower containing about 375 units. 

No construction start is imminent on the tower, Gibbs wrote in an email.

The two other sites the New Orleans group is buying are at 300 and 308 10th Ave. S., including the building where CJ Advertising had been located. Malham sold that company in January to a group of lawyers based in Baton Rouge, La. The new owners are relocating the company to downtown's L&C Tower. 

[markhollin]

^ ^ ^ A couple of maps to help with this info.

 

[dmillsphoto]

AH,

 

Here it is. Land sold for $31M, they now seek a builder.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/news/2018/07/02/new-orleans-group-spends-31m-on-land-pursues.html?ana=twt