Just Wow

[spenser1058]

Actually, my understanding is that Jax has one of the biggest percentages of lesbians with children of second-tier cities in the country. Which, of course, doesn’t do much for me (thankfully my dating days are long past), but the ladies are usually better organizing LGBTQ+ stuff than the gay boys are so it all works out. There’s an energy in Jax at the grass-roots level that I’ve missed in Orlando for several years so I’m glad to be a part of that again.

[AmIReal]

@spenser1058 it may not be Morrisons or Ronnie's, but Silkie's is in your new hood.

https://miami.eater.com/maps/jacksonville-best-new-restaurants-guide-map

[spenser1058]

Even Bianchi’s over Orlando:

Orlando is jealous of Tampa Bay, center of the sports universe | Commentary
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/mike-bianchi-commentary/os-prem-sp-orlando-tampa-envy-sports-success-0204-20210203-d5omi5mcrre4livdg5nfdzaunm-story.html

From The Sentinel 

[spenser1058]

Some YUGE moments in local prep hoops this weekend: Wadeview Park’s Boone Braves took out College Park Edgewater. Also, #1 ranked Monteverde Academy lost in OT, something that rarely happens.

Charge On!

[spenser1058]

I’m appalled by how little coverage the Sentinel is doing of the AD search at UCF. If this were the Tampa Bay Times and the Bulls they’d be all over it. 

One of the few bright spots in the rapidly declining quality of Sentinel coverage had been of UCF Sports and now one of the most pivotal stories for the school in years (complete with drama provided by a president who is so far completely unimpressive - another gift from the usual idiots in Tallahassee) is not only uncovered in the paper or the website but there’s nothing from the reporters even for stuff they’re working on for their Twitter feeds.

What was once one of Florida’s three best papers has now become one I won’t miss at all.
 

 

[spenser1058]

I’m not sure how I missed this for the past month because I’mreally into branding but it seems GM has updated its corporate logo for the first time since 1964. As Jalopnik points out, since the company’s car brands are more front and center than the corporate identity, it probably doesn’t matter much.

I also often didn’t care for ‘60’s logos (the Chrysler pentastar, for example, was awfully generic), but some worked well (Shell comes to mind) and many got worse in the ‘70’s (Publix). Nevertheless, the 1964 GM logo in capital letters in its very simplicity indicated a company standing astride the corporate landscape.

The new one is mostly just meh. Oh well, I guess to compete with a company like Tesla (of course, GM actually makes money while Tesla mostly entertains the millennials), warm and fuzzy is now the order of the day.And so it goes....

https://jalopnik.com/before-you-trash-gms-new-logo-remember-that-the-old-one-1846021099

 

[spenser1058]

In the above, older buildings saved for facade in the front with new buildings behind. Imagine Woolworth’s or McCrory’s!

[spenser1058]

Secretary Mayor Pete says streets have to be inclusive of everyone, not just cars:

https://twitter.com/samjmintz/status/1358790777472774145?s=12

 

[JFW657]

15 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

In the above, older buildings saved for facade in the front with new buildings behind. Imagine Woolworth’s or McCrory’s!

OK I'll try to imagine the Woolworth and McCrory at Orange and Church, but the only way I'll be able to imagine them as having been worth saving, is to imagine them as having been more on the order of the bottom floors of the building in the above pic.

Imagining them as they actually were, I still can't make myself feel that they were worth saving.

They were just nothing.

[spenser1058]

4 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

OK I'll try to imagine the Woolworth and McCrory at Orange and Church, but the only way I'll be able to imagine them as having been worth saving, is to imagine them as having been more on the order of the bottom floors of the building in the above pic.

Imagining them as they actually were, I still can't make myself feel that they were worth saving.

They were just nothing.

The front facades were all they were trying to keep.

[spenser1058]

My preference would have been to save a bit more and kept a bit more of the structures with access from Orange Ave to the towers, not unlike the way Bob Snow connected Church St. to The Exchange.

The preservationists suggested a number of possibilities- it was Jaymont who was unwilling to reach a compromise. So we ended up with a dead zone with horrible occupancy at what Buddy insists is “Main & Main”.

The plaza itself is dull and lifeless and leads to a black hole of a utility area along Court St. It could have been so much more user- and pedestrian-friendly with the original structures maintained.

Of course, it’s too late to do anything now(which was Jaymont and later Tavistock’s and Buddy’s goals), but it provides a cautionary tale for the rest of the core

[elefants]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Secretary Mayor Pete

Lol are you going to call him President Mayor Pete one day?

[spenser1058]

5 minutes ago, elefants said:

Lol are you going to call him President Mayor Pete one day?

Here’s hoping! And Fabulous First Gentleman Chasten!

[prahaboheme]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

My preference would have been to save a bit more and kept a bit more of the structures with access from Orange Ave to the towers, not unlike the way Bob Snow connected Church St. to The Exchange.

The preservationists suggested a number of possibilities- it was Jaymont who was unwilling to reach a compromise. So we ended up with a dead zone with horrible occupancy at what Buddy insists is “Main & Main”.

The plaza itself is dull and lifeless and leads to a black hole of a utility area along Court St. It could have been so much more user- and pedestrian-friendly with the original structures maintained.

Of course, it’s too late to do anything now(which was Jaymont and later Tavistock’s and Buddy’s goals), but it provides a cautionary tale for the rest of the core

Perhaps my memory is failing me but there was a proposal in the 90s that incorporated the facades right? It stalled over the years and when Buddy became Mayor he green-lighted the demolition of the facades. 

[spenser1058]

38 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Perhaps my memory is failing me but there was a proposal in the 90s that incorporated the facades right? It stalled over the years and when Buddy became Mayor he green-lighted the demolition of the facades. 

Yes, it started out trying to save the block and over time it became apparent Jaymont (later Tavistoock) wasn’t going to give an inch. The preservationists kept trying to reach a compromise but no go. Finally, Mayor Glenda came up with a proclamation saying the facades would be saved. As Glenda got wrapped up in light rail and NTC, the situation downtown was stuck in stasis because the developers wouldn’t bend. There it sat until Buddy came along, ignored the proclamation and had Cameron run the bulldozers. And so it goes...

A lot of the folks who had supported Buddy lost interest after that, along with the attempt to take apart OUC and a number of other missteps he and his consigliere tried that were contrary to the “Orlando way”. OC Mayor Rich Crotty used that to teach Buddy a little lesson but it all came at a cost, not least of which was it killed any chance Buddy had at higher office. Orlando lost many of the grassroots folks who have been so important in bringing back places like St. Pete. It’s left us with a downtown less like Bedford Falls and more like Pottersville where any changes are now to line the pockets of out of town developers instead of a community effort for pride of place.  Will we ever get it back? I hope so, but there will need to be a new cast of players for it to happen. 

The good news is that a lot of the energy that once was directed downtown found new outlets in the Main Street Districts and places like downtowns in Winter Garden and Sanford. The only challenge is that, just as award-winning organizations like Riverside Avondale Preservation found out in Jacksonville, no matter how good a job you do in adjacent communities, you’re always judged by your downtown.
 

 

Edited February 8, 2021 by spenser1058

[JFW657]

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

The front facades were all they were trying to keep.

And they were crap. 

[spenser1058]

1 minute ago, JFW657 said:

And they were crap. 

Thank you for your opinion. 

[JFW657]

42 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Perhaps my memory is failing me but there was a proposal in the 90s that incorporated the facades right? It stalled over the years and when Buddy became Mayor he green-lighted the demolition of the facades. 

And be thankful he did, otherwise those buildings would still be sitting there empty, unused and growing more and more dilapidated with each passing year. 

Just now, spenser1058 said:

Thank you for your opinion. 

You're welcome.

Always glad to oblige.  

[spenser1058]

8 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

And be thankful he did, otherwise those buildings would still be sitting there empty, unused and growing more and more dilapidated with each passing year. 

You're welcome.

Always glad to oblige.  

You have no way to know that. Historic  buildings in Tampa, Jacksonville and St. Pete that were empty for decades are now being returned to new life and making those downtowns have a pride of place while we turn into a vertical version of Maitland Center. The thing is, if you like the bland sameness of the suburbs, there are an ample number of them for you to revel in that genericness. I was raised with that because my parents never did get it.

My mother was as happy as a clam and, as long as she had the mall, she was good. For others, like me, who wanted to be a part of everything Orlando had ever been, I couldn’t get out of the ‘burbs fast enough. Why do those of you in the ‘burbs have to make others conform to the same sterile boredom? No one is trying to make you come downtown, and from what you’ve told us, you haven’t in ages. 

[JFW657]

5 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

You have no way to know that. Historic  buildings in Tampa, Jacksonville and St. Pete that were empty for decades are now being returned to new life and making those downtowns have a pride of place while we turn into a vertical version of Maitland Center. The thing is, if you like the bland sameness of the suburbs, there are an ample number of them for you to revel in that genericness. I was raised with that because my parents never did get it.

My mother was as happy as a clam and, as long as she had the mall, she was good. For others, like me, who wanted to be a part of everything Orlando had ever been, I couldn’t get out of the ‘burbs fast enough. Why do those of you in the ‘burbs have to make others conform to the same sterile boredom? No one is trying to make you come downtown, and from what you’ve told us, you haven’t in ages. 

Baloney.

First of all, I do not live in the burbs. You've made that false assertion before and like before, it falls flat once again.

I live in Hourglass/Curry Ford West. I can walk to downtown.

Also, you're the one who's trying to force everyone to conform to what your idea of what desirable is.

I've said to you so many times I can't count them all, that if those two facades had been more historic, more attractive and of some higher degree of overall significance, I'd have been all for saving them. 

But they were just a couple of crappy, rinky-dink, kind of ugly little storefronts.

Good riddance to them.

Sorry if that doesn't sit well with you.

BTW, I've been going downtown almost every weekend since last November. 

[prahaboheme]

28 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

And be thankful he did, otherwise those buildings would still be sitting there empty, unused and growing more and more dilapidated with each passing year. 

You're welcome.

Always glad to oblige.  

I really thought we ended this last week (at your request) to not engage anymore. 

Show an ounce of self control and maybe you’ll get an ounce of respect in return. And please, this time, no private messages (as much as you enjoy my company).

[JFW657]

7 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

I really thought we ended this last week (at your request) to not engage anymore. 

Show an ounce of self control and maybe you’ll get an ounce of respect in return. And please, this time, no private messages (as much as you enjoy my company).

I never said I wouldn't reply to any on-topic post by you or anyone else.

What I said was I wasn't going to respond in kind to your snotty put downs anymore.

I understand how some people just lack the mettle to handle being disagreed with on a discussion topic, so I'll just consider the source.

[AmIReal]

3 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

Perhaps my memory is failing me but there was a proposal in the 90s that incorporated the facades right? It stalled over the years and when Buddy became Mayor he green-lighted the demolition of the facades. 

Technically, not a proposal. There was a concept floated by the group trying to save the downtown block, but the owners of the property never submitted a proposal including that concept therefore it was never gonna happen. While I do appreciate the efforts of people trying to save aspects of history, there has to be some understanding of the rights property owners have and these owners were entitled to develop the lot. While Mayor Hood may have been open to the idea of saving the facades and did issue a proclamation, it was without consent or agreement of the council and it never had any legal authority.

In retrospect, it would seem Mayor Dyer made the right call. For nearly 2 decades that corner has been developed and is a highly producing stream of tax revenue. For nearly 2 decades it has been home to many residents, served as the only movie theater in the downtown, housed numerous successful and not so successful businesses while providing a major intersection at "Main and Main" with an open courtyard that has housed choirs, bands, performance arts, protests, Wine Downs, Creative City events, SNAP event and housed the homeless... everything a City Center should be and do. And it doesn't seem to have diminished Mayor Dyer's standing among the voters as he continues to get a larger share of the vote with each successive election. This is the type of tough call leaders have to make- establish a vison and execute on it (even if you lose some "grassroots supporters"). If the electorate doesn't appreciate your vision they can vote you out in subsequent elections. 

[prahaboheme]

44 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

Technically, not a proposal. There was a concept floated by the group trying to save the downtown block, but the owners of the property never submitted a proposal including that concept therefore it was never gonna happen. While I do appreciate the efforts of people trying to save aspects of history, there has to be some understanding of the rights property owners have and these owners were entitled to develop the lot. While Mayor Hood may have been open to the idea of saving the facades and did issue a proclamation, it was without consent or agreement of the council and it never had any legal authority.

In retrospect, it would seem Mayor Dyer made the right call. For nearly 2 decades that corner has been developed and is a highly producing stream of tax revenue. For nearly 2 decades it has been home to many residents, served as the only movie theater in the downtown, housed numerous successful and not so successful businesses while providing a major intersection at "Main and Main" with an open courtyard that has housed choirs, bands, performance arts, protests, Wine Downs, Creative City events, SNAP event and housed the homeless... everything a City Center should be and do. And it doesn't seem to have diminished Mayor Dyer's standing among the voters as he continues to get a larger share of the vote with each successive election. This is the type of tough call leaders have to make- establish a vison and execute on it (even if you lose some "grassroots supporters"). If the electorate doesn't appreciate your vision they can vote you out in subsequent elections. 

Don’t have a disagreement with anything you present here other than that Orlando can preserve its history and it’s not happening now.

[spenser1058]

Buddy, like any politician, loves to go on (and on) about everything he’s doing. Heck, he made a mediocre apartment complex at Orange and Amelia sound like the next Empire State Bulding!

In eighteen years, though, I’ve been waiting for him to address in a speech his detailed plan for preserving, improving and marketing the historic downtown core as the asset it has been regarded as since 1980. I’m still waiting.