Just Wow

[HankStrong]

Someone I know just looked at a  25+ year old 1400sf home that needed a full gutting.  They were asking $400k and got it.  Not from the person I know, but from someone paying cash.

 

Affordable, my butt.

 

[jack]

6 hours ago, HankStrong said:

Someone I know just looked at a  25+ year old 1400sf home that needed a full gutting.  They were asking $400k and got it.  Not from the person I know, but from someone paying cash.

 

Affordable, my butt.

 

They look at metro numbers, not desirable neighborhoods. 

[HankStrong]

1 hour ago, jack said:

They look at metro numbers, not desirable neighborhoods. 

It wasn't that desirable of a neighborhood.  It was also super junky inside.

[AmIReal]

8 hours ago, HankStrong said:

Someone I know just looked at a  25+ year old 1400sf home that needed a full gutting.  They were asking $400k and got it.  Not from the person I know, but from someone paying cash.

 

1 hour ago, jack said:

They look at metro numbers, not desirable neighborhoods. 

Generally speaking, house prices are about the property more than the house. The olde adage location, location, location is true.

[spenser1058]

I’ m going this week to see a presentation of Tony Kushner’s “Angels In America”, an epic, sprawling play (this is just the first part and it has two intermissions) about life during the Reagan era as AIDS first came to the U.S.

As it turns out, the Sentinel’s Matt Palm beat me to Valencia, one of my alma maters, to see it. I’m proud to see VC taking on something so edgy and doing it successfully. Given the parallels to the COVID era, it’s also controversial, and just as I created a good bit of my own in my juco days (that’s another story), I’m glad to see the school not shying away from topics like these 40 years later.

It may sound familiar - there was a new virus spreading rapidly on the scene and a Republican administration doing nothing. Of course, that was OK in the minds of the GOP then because, as far as they knew, it was only homos dying.

A name you might recognize, Dr. Anthony Fauci, was being attacked by both sides. From the right as usual for trying to help the gay boys but also from the left because the government wasn’t moving.

The thing about Dr. Fauci that earned my lifelong gratitude was that, as more and more of my friends began to succumb, he was busy in the wards showing palpable emotion. This was as too many were treating us like pariahs elsewhere.

Anyway, it’s an important play well-performed by a good number of folks who weren’t even alive then. Go see it at East Campus!

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment/arts-and-theater/os-prem-et-angels-in-america-valencia-review-20220220-yop35lwavfdjhj5pp5beberdzy-story.html

Edited February 21, 2022 by spenser1058

[HankStrong]

Interesting.

I'm just never sure how healthcare was allowed to become political.  Much like the blatant disregard for the separation of church & state, the separation of health of the nation & politics is just as frustrating.  Having the people who live, work, and make up the so-called "greatest nation on Earth" dying because they didn't vote for your candidate is about as vulgar as it gets.  I don't have to agree with your thoughts to want to save your life.

[spenser1058]

I had to chuckle when I read this in Marc Daniels’ column:

“Daryl Morey is the president of the Philadelphia 76ers. He is as radical as they come when it comes to using analytics and as bold as they come in making deals. Morey doesn't believe in tanking and he waited and waited before pulling the trigger on the Ben Simmons-James Harden trade.”

The ‘76’ers currently sit atop the Eastern Conference at .603 while the “let’s tank for a decade” Magic are at the bottom at .217.

If you’ve ever read Pat Williams’ and Larry Guest’s book, “Making Magic”, about the founding of the team, you know Williams (who had worked for the Sixers), set the team up as essentially a copy of the Philly organization.

That, of course, was long before the DeVos family came and made a hash of everything (no doubt, too busy with multilevel marketing schemes and destroying public education).

It turns out we started off headed in the right direction until the “gang that couldn’t shoot straight” (or build an entertainment complex) came to town.

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by spenser1058

[AmIReal]

55 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

I had to chuckle when I read this in Marc Daniels’ column:

“Daryl Morey is the president of the Philadelphia 76ers. He is as radical as they come when it comes to using analytics and as bold as they come in making deals. Morey doesn't believe in tanking and he waited and waited before pulling the trigger on the Ben Simmons-James Harden trade.”

The ‘76’ers currently sit atop the Eastern Conference at .603 while the “let’s tank for a decade” Magic are at the bottom at .217.

If you’ve ever read Pat Williams’ and Larry Guest’s book, “Making Magic”, about the founding of the team, you know Williams (who had worked for the Sixers), set the team up as essentially a copy of the Philly organization.

That, of course, was long before the DeVos family came and made a hash of everything (no doubt, too busy with multilevel marketing schemes and destroying public education).

It turns out we started off headed in the right direction until the “gang that couldn’t shoot straight” (or build an entertainment complex) came to town.

 

Shame you don't know what you're talking about, but you insist on talking anyway. The 76ers mastered the tank for a five year period- including a total of 10 wins in 2016 (.122). They intentionally tanked in order to become a better team- and that was in Philly, the city with the most hardcore fans anywhere (outside of soccer).  Those terrible seasons put them in position to draft #1 twice and #3 twice in successive years. One of those #3 picks is the current front runner for MVP. Morey came along after they already had this team in place.

If there is anything else you'd like to learn about basketball, just ask? It may save you from these embarrassing moments.

[spenser1058]

@AndyPok1, do any of THE Ohio State coaches wanna go a few rounds in the ring with the Michigan MBB coach? And here I always thought the B1G was the classy conference…

Maybe he watched Hoosiers?

Edited February 21, 2022 by spenser1058

[prahaboheme]

26 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

Shame you don't know what you're talking about, but you insist on talking anyway. The 76ers mastered the tank for a five year period- including a total of 10 wins in 2016 (.122). They intentionally tanked in order to become a better team- and that was in Philly, the city with the most hardcore fans anywhere (outside of soccer).  Those terrible seasons put them in position to draft #1 twice and #3 twice in successive years. One of those #3 picks is the current front runner for MVP. Morey came along after they already had this team in place.

If there is anything else you'd like to learn about basketball, just ask? It may save you from these embarrassing moments.

I think the only misunderstanding is, well, your rant.
Talk about an embarrassing moment.

[spenser1058]

Wow - boys’ basketball ain’t messing around. The Olympia High Dr Phillips Class 7A Region 2 game sold out in six minutes. And it’s just the semifinal!

35 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

Shame you don't know what you're talking about, but you insist on talking anyway. The 76ers mastered the tank for a five year period- including a total of 10 wins in 2016 (.122). They intentionally tanked in order to become a better team- and that was in Philly, the city with the most hardcore fans anywhere (outside of soccer).  Those terrible seasons put them in position to draft #1 twice and #3 twice in successive years. One of those #3 picks is the current front runner for MVP. Morey came along after they already had this team in place.

If there is anything else you'd like to learn about basketball, just ask? It may save you from these embarrassing moments.

Was Morey the president then? It fascinates me you’ll go to incredible lengths to defend a team and ownership who are horrific on multiple fronts and have been for years now. No doubt you think being in the bottom 20% of NBA attendance and “tanking” downtown success is good, too. Why is that?

Finally, Marc Daniels is one of the highest regarded sports folks in the state. Yes, I’ll go with his thoughts any day.

Edited February 21, 2022 by spenser1058

[AndyPok1]

7 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Was Morey the president then? It fascinates me you’ll go to incredible lengths to defend a team and ownership who are horrific on multiple fronts. Why is that?

No.  Morey was the GM of Houston.  He went to Philadelphia in 2020, well after their tanking and when they were already a Championship contender.

In mid-and small-size markets, tanking is almost exclusively the only way to get become in the championship conversation.  And even then you have to get lucky.

[spenser1058]

9 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

No.  Morey was the GM of Houston.  He went to Philadelphia in 2020, well after their tanking and when they were already a Championship contender.

In mid-and small-size markets, tanking is almost exclusively the only way to get become in the championship conversation.  And even then you have to get lucky.

I’d be happy to just be mediocre at this point. Remember, one of the reasons they gave to push the DeVos family to the front of the line on venues (they were last in polling) was to make downtown prosper.

Being in the bottom 20% of attendance in the league ain’t doing that. 

A question worth asking: if the NBA is so stacked against smaller markets, it suggests a city investing in them is a fool’s errand. So of course the city gave them carte blanche on city property with almost no vetting based on their stellar performance (yep, it’s an empty lot years after the MJC and a parking garage were demolished and OPD built a new building). But this is great, right?

Put another way, as someone whose opinion I very much respect, would you take that deal? It makes an Amway distributorship look like the hottest tech stock by comparison…

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by spenser1058

[AndyPok1]

22 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

I’d be happy to just be mediocre at this point. Remember, one of the reasons they gave to push the DeVos family to the front of the line on venues (they were last in polling) was to make downtown prosper.

Being in the bottom 20% of attendance in the league ain’t doing that. 

A question worth asking: if the NBA is so stacked against smaller markets, it suggests a city investing in them is a fool’s errand. So of course the city gave them carte blanche on city property with almost no vetting based on their stellar performance (yep, it’s an empty lot years after the MJC and a parking garage were demolished and OPD built a new building). But this is great, right?

Put another way, as someone whose opinion I very much respect, would you take that deal? It makes an Amway distributorship look like the hottest tech stock by comparison…

 

So "mediocre" is a loaded question.  Mediocre is largely a death knell in the NBA.  And the Magic HAVE been very good at being mediocre.  They had the McGrady era where they lost in the first round in 3 years... then had a bad year and were able to draft Dwight.  Then had 6 great years (including upsetting my Cavs team that was all but certain to win that year).  After that, they quasi-tanked.... and then then between Vucevic/Gordon/Fournier/etc they were mediocre again making it into the playoffs twice.  Then Isaac broke himself, and the decision was made to rebuild it again.  There's a LOT of fun players on this current team.  But your best player (Isaac) is still rehabbing, the former #1 pick with potential (Fultz) is still rehabbing.  Jalen Suggs and Franz Wagner have show promise.  You just need that all-star and superstar.  The last core never really developed into those players.  Its dumb luck.

Long way of saying.... you can often remain "mediocre" in the NBA for long stretches.  But it often leads to Indiana Pacers/Atlanta Hawks where you have a ceiling of the second round of the playoffs.  That's a goal sometimes.... ESPECIALLY after an extended drought.  But it also often leads to never truly contending for a title.

Edited February 21, 2022 by AndyPok1

[spenser1058]

1 minute ago, AndyPok1 said:

So "mediocre" is a loaded question.  Mediocre is largely a death knell in the NBA.  And the Magic HAVE been very good at being mediocre.  They had the McGrady era where they lost in the first round in 3 years... then had a bad year and were able to draft Dwight.  Then had 6 great years (including upsetting my Cavs team that was all but certain to win that year).  After that, they quasi-tanked.... and then then between Vucevic/Gordon/Fournier/etc they were mediocre again making it into the playoffs twice.  Then Isaac broke himself, and the decision was made to rebuild it again.  There's a LOT of fun players on this current team.  But your best player (Isaac) is still rehabbing, the former #1 pick with potential (Fultz) is still rehabbing.  Jalen Suggs and Franz Wagner have show promise.  You just need that all-star and superstar.  The last core never really developed into those players.  Its dumb luck.

But the last decade only one winning season - and just barely (according to the Sentinel)

So basically the city is investing in a Vegas crap shoot. May I quote you the next time this family who does not represent the city’s stated values asks for anything from the taxpayers? Essentially, we’ve been had. 

And, knowing that, why did we trust this group, with no expertise, with city assets (which they haven’t put to use on the project after years of it lying fallow)? Is it safe to say not another dime should be wasted on this family and their boondoggle? (Knowing they’ll make a fortune when they sell the team and not a penny will go to the taxpayers)
 

[AndyPok1]

7 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

But the last decade only one winning season - and just barely (according to the Sentinel)

So basically the city is investing in a Vegas crap shoot. May I quote you the next time this family who does not represent the city’s stated values asks for anything from the taxpayers? Essentially, we’ve been had. 

And, knowing that, why did we trust this group, with no expertise, with city assets (which they haven’t put to use on the project after years of it lying fallow)? Is it safe to say not another dime should be wasted on this family and their boondoggle? (Knowing they’ll make a fortune when they sell the team and not a penny will go to the taxpayers)
 

To be clear, I'm not a fan of the DeVos.  But using a decade is cherry picking because there's been 2 pandemic seasons mixed in as well as conveniently starts right after the Dwight hey days when they had 5 straight winning seasons.

Moreover, Amway Center is a jewel of our downtown.  I was at a Dua Lipa concert the other night, I've seen Jonas Brothers, Garth Brooks, Backstreet Boys, countless others.  Most touring concerts do one South Florida (Sunrise or Miami), and one Central Florida (Orlando or Tampa).  Without Amway Center, we would get none of these concerts, they would all go to Tampa.  I quite enjoy being able to have Happy Hour dinner at Shakai, a pregame drink (or 3) at Caseys or Harry Buffalo, wander over and see a concert before Ubering home.  If I had to drive home from Tampa, I would not be spending money at restaurants in our downtown.  And I would have to stay sober.  And I'd go to a lot less concerts.  Y'all want things besides drinking to do downtown.  Without the Amway Center, there'd be even less.

Cleveland just hosted NBA All-Star weekend after doing a $185 million dollar renovation to a stadium built in 1994.  You know what one of the two arenas they used as an example when proposing it?  Amway.

[spenser1058]

11 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

To be clear, I'm not a fan of the DeVos.  But using a decade is cherry picking because there's been 2 pandemic seasons mixed in as well as conveniently starts right after the Dwight hey days when they had 5 straight winning seasons.

Moreover, Amway Center is a jewel of our downtown.  I was at a Dua Lipa concert the other night, I've seen Jonas Brothers, Garth Brooks, Backstreet Boys, countless others.  Most touring concerts do one South Florida (Sunrise or Miami), and one Central Florida (Orlando or Tampa).  Without Amway Center, we would get none of these concerts, they would all go to Tampa.  I quite enjoy being able to have Happy Hour dinner at Shakai, a pregame drink (or 3) at Caseys or Harry Buffalo, wander over and see a concert before Ubering home.  If I had to drive home from Tampa, I would not be spending money at restaurants in our downtown.  And I would have to stay sober.  And I'd go to a lot less concerts.  Y'all want things besides drinking to do downtown.  Without the Amway Center, there'd be even less.

Cleveland just hosted NBA All-Star weekend after doing a $185 million dollar renovation to a stadium built in 1994.  You know what one of the two arenas they used as an example when proposing it?  Amway.

Ummm, you’re forgetting many of those shows went to the old arena we tore down when it wasn’t even 20 years old!

And we were told moving it closer to Church St was going to save downtown! Didn’t happen, the DeVos family just got a bigger piece of the pie. The excuses that are made for this whole debacle embarrass even me, and in my political days I had to come up with some whoppers.

We won’t even mention the first arena had a classic look overlooking the lake and this one, built to maximize DeVos family profits, looks like the back side of a Walmart. 

There’s also the shame of having a brand name atop the city which has all but been shown the door by several states about their questionable business dealings. (Question: over the years, I got hornswoggled into listening to presentations about a “business opportunity “ four times. Each time, I had to drag the company name out and didn’t get it until the end. If P&G orDisney were trying to hire me, would they do that)?
 

Edited February 21, 2022 by spenser1058

[AndyPok1]

22 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Ummm, you’re forgetting many of those shows went to the old arena we tore down when it wasn’t even 20 years old!

And we were told moving it closer to Church St was going to save downtown! Didn’t happen, the DeVos family just got a bigger piece of the pie. The excuses that are made for this whole debacle embarrass even me, and in my political days I had to come up with some whoppers.

We won’t even mention the first arena had a classic look overlooking the lake and this one, built to maximize DeVos family profits, looks like the back side of a Walmart. 

There’s also the shame of having a brand name atop the city which has all but been shown the door by several states about their questionable business dealings. (Question: over the years, I got hornswoggled into listening to presentations about a “business opportunity “ four times. Each time, I had to drag the company name out and didn’t get it until the end. If P&G orDisney were trying to hire me, would they do that)?

And you may have continued to get them as it became 25 years old, but very quickly the tide would have shifted.  I loved the old Amway, but it was built at the exact wrong time (late 80s/early 90s).  There's a reason virtually nothing from that time period exists anymore, both basketball and football.  Environments changed rapidly and there are massive design flaws.

You're the first person I've ever heard preferring the old building looks.  As I mentioned, the glass facade and massive entryway on Church St is admired and copied into new arenas for both efficiency and design.

Overlooking the lake was a bad thing because it was in a sea of parking with no downtown connectivity.  Is it unfortunate Church St businesses can't survive for whatever reason?  Absolutely!  But go down during an event and see how packed every restaurant and bar nearby is and watch all those people walk back from the arena and stop places as opposed to walking out into the sea of parking and going home.

Agreed, Amway the company is crap.  Can't control that unfortunately.

[spenser1058]

13 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

And you may have continued to get them as it became 25 years old, but very quickly the tide would have shifted.  I loved the old Amway, but it was built at the exact wrong time (late 80s/early 90s).  There's a reason virtually nothing from that time period exists anymore, both basketball and football.  Environments changed rapidly and there are massive design flaws.

You're the first person I've ever heard preferring the old building looks.  As I mentioned, the glass facade and massive entryway on Church St is admired and copied into new arenas for both efficiency and design.

Overlooking the lake was a bad thing because it was in a sea of parking with no downtown connectivity.  Is it unfortunate Church St businesses can't survive for whatever reason?  Absolutely!  But go down during an event and see how packed every restaurant and bar nearby is and watch all those people walk back from the arena and stop places as opposed to walking out into the sea of parking and going home.

Agreed, Amway the company is crap.  Can't control that unfortunately.

If everything is wonderful on Church St., help me out. Why is everyone from Buddy to Jim Gray to local developers (and yes, business owners) saying otherwise? What did I miss?

Important fact: the original arena was built to NBA specs. I guess if they can count on a free replacement whenever they want, they don’t really care how long it lasts.

Edited February 21, 2022 by spenser1058

[AmIReal]

Save the trees, maybe not... in Japan. This redevelopment plans to cut down approximately 1000 trees, some over 100 years old. "Cutting down the trees is an act that hurts history and culture," said Prof. Mikiko Ishikawa of Chuo University, who serves as a board member of ICOMOS Japan.

https://www.chron.com/news/article/Calls-grow-for-developers-to-spare-100-yr-old-16933721.php

[jack]

18 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

No.  Morey was the GM of Houston.  He went to Philadelphia in 2020, well after their tanking and when they were already a Championship contender.

In mid-and small-size markets, tanking is almost exclusively the only way to get become in the championship conversation.  And even then you have to get lucky.

Unfortunately, you are right. 

18 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

I’d be happy to just be mediocre at this point. Remember, one of the reasons they gave to push the DeVos family to the front of the line on venues (they were last in polling) was to make downtown prosper.

Being in the bottom 20% of attendance in the league ain’t doing that. 

A question worth asking: if the NBA is so stacked against smaller markets, it suggests a city investing in them is a fool’s errand. So of course the city gave them carte blanche on city property with almost no vetting based on their stellar performance (yep, it’s an empty lot years after the MJC and a parking garage were demolished and OPD built a new building). But this is great, right?

Put another way, as someone whose opinion I very much respect, would you take that deal? It makes an Amway distributorship look like the hottest tech stock by comparison…

 

Consider that the team was better when the area was approved. And I am sure attendance was as well. 

Yes, the City of Orlando made a bad real estate deal. But the arena is a different story. 

[HankStrong]

I don't know any of the facts because I don't care about the NBA at all, but I love when someone on the internet tells someone they are going to get it and they get themselves in the process. 

Not to mention that then someone else comes in and out gets the getter and the gettee is left getting the getter because the original getter got gotten by the new getter who is getting the gettee now.  Yeah.  Follow that logic, baby!

[orange87]

My house was built before Florida became a state. 

[spenser1058]

4 hours ago, orange87 said:

My house was built before Florida became a state. 

True enough - but remember St. Augustine was founded half a century before the Pilgrims got to Mass. Had Florida come into the Union as two states (don’t even get me started on the politics), StA would likely have been the capital of East Florida.

[spenser1058]

Unlike Thomas Chatmon’s do-nothing decades in downtown Orlando where we watched retail get worse and worse each year, the City of Daytona Beach is actually going to do something to bring Main Street back. The city also recognizes that one project isn’t the answer - the city is looking to a holistic program to make it work. Finally, the city recognizes the need for someone with actual retail expertise to jumpstart things, instead of hiring someone from the retail hotbed of Albany, GA to find solutions. Ain’t competence in city government and also the willingness to at least TRY just the most amazing thing?

https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/news/local/volusia/2022/03/06/daytona-main-street-building-hoped-to-become-like-chelsea-market-in-ny/9370970002/

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