Unified Development Ordinance

[SouthEndCLT811]

1 hour ago, a2theb said:

Thinking about this quickly, nothing is really changing for anyone . The city has welcomed du/triplexes in Biddleville/Seversville/Elizabeth/3rd Ward/NoDa/Villa Heights while Dilworth, Wilmore, Wesley Heights, Plaza remain somewhat untouchable outside of the multifamily already built due to the HDC designation. 

 

Obviously just really in town neighborhoods above. Will be interesting to see what could happen somewhere like Madison Park, Starmount, Montclaire. 

Funny enough you specified those neighborhoods.  On Manhasset in Collingwood there is a lot that had a SFH which was demoed and supposedly coming back as a duplex (according to Nextdoor sources  ) which to your point was previously allowed in certain situations.  So the UDO isn't changing too much

[Blue_Devil]

13 hours ago, southernnorthcarolina said:

I'd love to learn more about this.  The Observer hasn't mentioned this, as far as I know, but I might well have missed it.  If the areas with deed restrictions banning duplexes/triplexes in single family zones is extensive, it could be a game-changer.  Someone should publish a map showing the areas where duplexes and triplexes are prohibited by deed restrictions.

I'm in Weddington, Union County, just across the line from Mecklenburg.  Here, single family means single family, and mostly 40,000 sf lot minimums.  I expect a migration from Charlotte.

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, a2theb said:

Thinking about this quickly, nothing is really changing for anyone . The city has welcomed du/triplexes in Biddleville/Seversville/Elizabeth/3rd Ward/NoDa/Villa Heights while Dilworth, Wilmore, Wesley Heights, Plaza remain somewhat untouchable outside of the multifamily already built due to the HDC designation. 

 

Obviously just really in town neighborhoods above. Will be interesting to see what could happen somewhere like Madison Park, Starmount, Montclaire. 

New duplexes were built in Dilworth in the last year. 3 sets actually. They started over a million. This was on Brookside and Lennox. A quad plex was built on Atherton recently too. 

[RANYC]

2 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Yes increased supply is a good thing in the overall housing market.  ADUs are great and always supported that aspect of this plan.  I just think without  any restrictions you will see lots of tear downs in the mostly intown older neighborhoods for new triplexes and so forth and speeding up gentrification in neighborhoods that have more affordable housing.  But most parts of newer Charlotte in the suburbs will be unaffected as they have deed restrictions in place especially in the mixed use communities like Berewick, Ballantyne which have certain areas already of multifamily or attached housing.  It is the older communities and neighborhoods that don't have them. 

As someone who lives and owns in an older in-town neighborhood - Wesley Heights - I am excited for the an acceleration in the intensification of land uses.  It's the only way we make the neighborhood increasingly viable for proximal, WALKING-ACCESSIBLE commercial offerings like retail.  Yes, we could keep things restrictive, and by doing so, perhaps slow down land value appreciation, but I don't want that.  Personally, I'm tired of the old commercial and rental properties keeping their lots looking dumpy and depressing, and then as soon as fresh ideas come along to clean things up and modernize them, everyone complains about gentrification.  I know this is an unpopular viewpoint, but I want new waves of development in my area that bring in new blood and drive out the existing moribund elements.

I hope the Plan's liberalization of property uses acts as its own type of stimulus package for this part of center city.  A spark for redevelopment.  If large tracts of center city only grow as single family homes on big yards, we'll never see the density and pedestrian-accessible mixed uses that enliven the streetscape and create the sense of urban vitality that one expects from a thriving center city.

Edited June 22, 2021 by RANYC

[davidclt]

16 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Most of newer neighborhoods in Charlotte have covenants and restrictions so no change there at all. 

Unpopular opinions: The CCRs imposed in newer developments to "preserve property values" are mostly like the old redlining. Also, for most "gated communities" the security is theater and cursory at best - designed to keep out the honest or those that "don't look like they belong here."

[archiham04]

2 hours ago, a2theb said:

Thinking about this quickly, nothing is really changing for anyone . The city has welcomed du/triplexes in Biddleville/Seversville/Elizabeth/3rd Ward/NoDa/Villa Heights while Dilworth, Wilmore, Wesley Heights, Plaza remain somewhat untouchable outside of the multifamily already built due to the HDC designation. 

 

Obviously just really in town neighborhoods above. Will be interesting to see what could happen somewhere like Madison Park, Starmount, Montclaire. 

Not sure if this is true for the other districts, but The Historic district in Plaza Midwood is pretty small compared to their overall neighborhood ... only about 1/5 id say is designated historic.... so I'm not sure I'd say it is untouchable.  Further, I think there was recently a new duplex built to historic district standards in the PM historic district on a former SFH lot. 

1510 Kensington Dr

Edited June 22, 2021 by archiham04

[videtur quam contuor]

2 minutes ago, davidclt said:

Unpopular opinions: The CCRs imposed in newer developments to "preserve property values" are mostly like the old redlining. Also, for most "gated communities" the security is theater and cursory at best - designed to keep out the honest or those that "don't look like they belong here."

Locks are for honest people. Dishonest people ignore them.

[Blue_Devil]

1 minute ago, davidclt said:

Unpopular opinions: The CCRs imposed in newer developments to "preserve property values" are mostly like the old redlining. Also, for most "gated communities" the security is theater and cursory at best - designed to keep out the honest or those that "don't look like they belong here."

I lived in a gated neighborhood one. I think the best thing it did was keep people from speeding around. I felt better about kids playing on the streets etc. 

Just now, tarhoosier said:

Locks are for honest people. Dishonest people ignore them.

Depends on the lock or the gate. Nowadays, a good amount of property crime is crime of opportunity. Good locks and security deterrents make a lot of people look for an easier target.  

[a2theb]

55 minutes ago, Blue_Devil said:

 

New duplexes were built in Dilworth in the last year. 3 sets actually. They started over a million. This was on Brookside and Lennox. A quad plex was built on Atherton recently too. 

 

52 minutes ago, archiham04 said:

Not sure if this is true for the other districts, but The Historic district in Plaza Midwood is pretty small compared to their overall neighborhood ... only about 1/5 id say is designated historic.... so I'm not sure I'd say it is untouchable.  Further, I think there was recently a new duplex built to historic district standards in the PM historic district on a former SFH lot. 

1510 Kensington Dr

Sorry should have been more clear here. Teardowns of SFH just to build MF (a la 3rd ward) and not because there is an empty lot or a current condemned home in the HDC districts.  Again I think those above are great examples of the UDO changing nothing really.  There has been plenty of infill in these neighborhoods with little pushback from the city or from the neighbors.

Edit: I still think the only there may be some effect in neighborhoods older than 1970 (without protective covenants) and that havent had any type of infill yet i.e. Starmount but for everyone else little is changing.

Edited June 22, 2021 by a2theb

[jthomas]

2 hours ago, KJHburg said:

Yes increased supply is a good thing in the overall housing market.  ADUs are great and always supported that aspect of this plan.  I just think without  any restrictions you will see lots of tear downs in the mostly intown older neighborhoods for new triplexes and so forth and speeding up gentrification in neighborhoods that have more affordable housing.  But most parts of newer Charlotte in the suburbs will be unaffected as they have deed restrictions in place especially in the mixed use communities like Berewick, Ballantyne which have certain areas already of multifamily or attached housing.  It is the older communities and neighborhoods that don't have them. 

Yes, it may result in more teardowns - that is a sign of market demand for more well-located housing units, and it is a natural part of the evolution of a growing city. I understand the concern about losing affordable units, but the sky-high prices of the new, denser housing is just a signal that there is vast unmet demand. This demand is largely unmet because supply is artificially restricted by zoning. I say this as someone who is heavily involved in historic preservation - there comes a time when the development patterns of the past no longer serve the needs of the present. Charlotte is there, and this comp plan and UDO rewrite are the opportunity to make it so that today's new growth becomes tomorrow's treasured places.

When a place is growing as fast as Charlotte is, change is inevitable. It's just a question of what form it takes. The change can be sustainable (leveraging existing infrastructure) and equitable (meaning that the change affects everyone), or the government can pick winners and losers, preserving favored quarters in amber while forcing growth either to the fringes or upon those least able to oppose it. The latter has been the status quo for generations - it's time for a new path forward.

[KJHburg]

1 hour ago, davidclt said:

Unpopular opinions: The CCRs imposed in newer developments to "preserve property values" are mostly like the old redlining. Also, for most "gated communities" the security is theater and cursory at best - designed to keep out the honest or those that "don't look like they belong here."

totally disagree and I am on the front lines of this.  People of all races, national origins ask about protective convenants.  I know this as they have ask me nobody wants someone putting up a chain link fence in their front yard or parking their cars repeatedly on the grass.  I have seen this in all neighborhoods from starter homes to luxury homes.  What people don't like is HOAs enforcing rules sometimes unevenly or with pettiness.  But trust me people of all colors and races and national origin are concerned with their neighborhood values and how their community looks. 

[KJHburg]

Down in Savannah last week and one difference between it and Charleston is that Savannah has a lot more green space and much more attached housing.  Triplexes and duplexes like this are fine with me!  Would love some of these around town and some would fit in well in historic neighborhoods like Dilworth, Elizabeth though they would not be cheap by any means.  

Infill in Charlotte they call these Duets here are some of the first duets in the south! 

[Guest]

 The alternative to missing middle is larger and larger McMansions. I'll take it.

I was in the room and the comp plan passing didn't do much for me. Land values are so high in Belmont / Noda / Elizabeth that it's really time to allow six-plexes to be built and it's not politically feasible. Endless class and generational warfare by those who already managed to get their foot in the housing ladder.

The fact that is driving everyone crazy and not talked about is the easy money policies by the federal reserve. Everyone panicking over housing and accessing cheap money to borrow and stuffing it into any building they can find. Land values and property values skyrocketing at dizzying speeds. All building up risks for a large correction... though I'm not really in the bubble camp anymore. The economy is so unhealthy...

If you really REALLY want to build more affordable housing, parking minimums need to thrown out the window full stop. Then I can build a six-plex on a small lot. If were lucky I can build a small apartment at two bedrooms for sale at 250,000$. I don't entirely know the cost per square foot now, I used to run it on 140$ sq ft. minimum but after all the lumber inflation, oye.

With parking minimums, open space requirements, rear set-backs, tree-save and all the other garbage anti-housing regulations, it's impossible to build affordable missing middle.

[Guest]

I've been in land development for five years, I know how the city runs. It's a racket. Make housing so restricted, force the majority of projects to go through rezoning. Take as many concession as possible from land developers, jacking up costs. Demand affordable units while affording no subsidies, then turn around to their constituents and claim they care about the housing crisis. The remaining developers that can operate in this environment are the most aggressive and border-line sociopathic.

Small infill projects are obliterated before they get to the drawing board. It's not the fact that the planning staff say 'no', it's the expectation. An expectation they have enforced for decades...

So it's rigged against the middle class and working class. The best alternative is if the city starts funding co-op housing projects with shared amenities. Do everything possible to cut-out middle men.

I'm at hair-trigger now. Just waiting for the UDO to go under... give me an excuse to run for mayor.

[kermit]

[KJHburg]

^^ should that not be in the Political discussion thread?  I thought we wanted to keep clear of politics in every thread.  

[kermit]

Wilmington (!) is currently discussing eliminating parking minimums from its zoning code. If Wilmington (arguably the most sprawly city in NC) can eliminate minimums then our UDO could certainly be more aggressive on parking.

https://www.whqr.org/local/2021-06-21/there-may-be-a-lot-less-new-asphalt-in-wilmingtons-future

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by kermit

[jthomas]

53 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

^^ should that not be in the Political discussion thread?  I thought we wanted to keep clear of politics in every thread.  

I think it's fair game for this topic. Changing land use policy is an inherently political process, and the tweet above provides a glimpse into the rhetoric of those opposed to change. I think it would be worthwhile to discuss the merits of the argument of Charlotte's former mayor.

[kermit]

^ Politics aside, the McCrory tweet is getting a ton of national attention in urbanist social media, giving Charlotte an unexpected shot of credibility amongst the folks who follow such news. 

Even before the McCrory tweet, there were quite a few "even Charlotte banned exclusionary zoning!”  [sic] messages floating through twitter yesterday.

[Charlotte has not yet removed any exclusionary zoning]

Edited June 25, 2021 by kermit

[elrodvt]

Random comment.

Does anyone think there isn't some level of redlining to this date? Sure it's reduced and hidden but it's there. After all realtors and developers are not somehow immune to racism.

[KJHburg]

2 minutes ago, elrodvt said:

Random comment.

Does anyone think there isn't some level of redlining to this date? Sure it's reduced and hidden but it's there. After all realtors and developers are not somehow immune to racism.

I don't think so around here.  Not saying it was not done 30-40 years ago but now I see no evidence of it now.  If your client of any race has the money to buy and can win a bid on a resale home they will get it.   New home builders same way.  They just want people to close on their homes.  

[elrodvt]

Majority of time I agree but would bet ya there's a healthy number who do think that way. They may have big confederate flags at their office too. But yeah, probably very unusual in urban areas like Charlotte.

[kermit]

On 6/23/2021 at 6:36 PM, elrodvt said:

Random comment.

Does anyone think there isn't some level of redlining to this date? Sure it's reduced and hidden but it's there. After all realtors and developers are not somehow immune to racism.

Middle aged, middle class white guy speaking here, so keep my perspective in mind…

I was lightly involved with Intown Charlotte residential real estate between 2000-2019. In that time I saw little evidence (from my perspective) of race-based steering in several  dozen deals (leases and sales) during that time, the one exception is noted below. However, in addition to my perspective, most of these transactions were in neighborhoods with either high prices (Dilworth and Sedgefield) or very low prices (Thomasboro). So pricing was the determining factor for the economic class of folks on the other side of the deal. I would think that median-priced properties would be most subject to racial steering.

The exception to my statement above was from back in the early 2000s. At that time it was evident that the publications you choose to list your property greatly influenced who responded to adds (e.g. there was a racial bias in readership between Observer classifieds, criagslist, zillow, mls, yard signs, etc.) Given this, landlords and sellers could influence the pool of buyers/renters by choosing where to (and where not to) advertise. It appeared to me that the post-2010 internet use of mass data aggregation has somewhat eliminated that informational inequity.

Most housing policy research points to pricing being used as the defacto modern steering device. This is why Charlotte (and so many other cities) are pushing to eliminate exclusionary zoning.

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by kermit

[elrodvt]

1 hour ago, kermit said:

Middle aged, middle class white guy speaking here, so keep my perspective in mind…

I have been lightly involved with Intown Charlotte real estate since 2000. In that time I saw no evidence (from my perspective) of any sort of race-based redlining or steering in several  dozen deals (leases and sales) during that time. Having said that, most of these transactions were in neighborhoods with either high prices (Dilworth and Sedgefield) or very low prices (Thomasboro). So pricing was heavily responsible for the economic class of folks on the other side of the deal. In the past, the listing location (mls, classifieds, Craigslist) has been a tool for racial steering, but the internet has changed that to some extent.

Most housing policy research points to pricing as the defacto modern steering device. This is why Charlotte (and so many other cities) are pushing to eliminate SFH exclusive zoning.

 

What about financing? I don't recall a good source but am sure I've read articles about lenders being biased. Perhaps unconscious in many cases but it's there in the numbers. I'm sure my buddy Ted Cruz would love to read this.

[davidclt]

Interesting read from Slate today (could have gone multiple places but I picked here): https://slate.com/business/2021/06/charlotte-single-family-zoning-segregation-housing.html

[urbanlover568]

On 6/22/2021 at 10:55 AM, davidclt said:

Unpopular opinions: The CCRs imposed in newer developments to "preserve property values" are mostly like the old redlining. Also, for most "gated communities" the security is theater and cursory at best - designed to keep out the honest or those that "don't look like they belong here."

Obama's Martha's Vineyard community is gated. Maybe you haven't been to 3rd world countries where people there do not have the privilege of having the police show up to every call, I have. My friend's house in Guadalajara is gated and has bars on the window. Their security has thwarted 2 burglaries. Asheville has already stopped responding to certain crimes. Violent crime is surging in Charlotte. Can you really fault someone for trying to to protect their livelihood and children?! You are free leave your doors unlocked and windows open, but don't force others to compromise their safety. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by urbanlover568