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sunshine

Hourglass District

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1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Maybe it's because my background is political, but it seems to me like this is a good response.

She acknowledges a problem reaching a fever pitch in her district and notes she went out in the district to see the problem first hand.

What she did NOT do was throw staff under the bus. She did NOT say this must end now.

What she did say was "we will get this right." She encouraged folks to come in from the extremes and work together to fix the problem.

Were I on her staff, I could have written this. If I were the commissioner, my response would have been similar.

How she proceeds from here will be important but Patty usually heads in the right direction, imho.

She did make this statement 3 days into the start of the study which was annoying.  She didn't give it a shot before she went off on it.  I noticed the people against it were very vocal.  Being at the event on Saturday there was a number of people there that seemed to just be against bikes or were just spouting out lies about the project.  Ie. one person said no public meetings were held ahead of time and noone contacted the business owners.  Both are false statements.

2 hours ago, aent said:

I agree with your sentiment, this is an awful attempt. The problem is there is no real alternative routes. We need to be realistic, I'm sure there is other measured we can do to improve bike and pedestrain safety without making drivers full of road rage and angry, which is less safe for everyone on the road.

My understanding from talking to the engineers at Saturday's event was that they were limited in what they could experiment with because they had to put everything back in a month.  Curry Ford wasn't their first choice but made sense because it was both jurisdictions city and county and Hourglass and Curry Ford West District requested something be done.  Crystal Lake to Michigan and to South was the alternate free route while SR 408 was supposed to be the alternate for people further away.  However one person at the event said from now on he'd be cutting through the neighborhoods even when the road is reverted back.  I asked him how fast he was driving through the neighborhoods and he admitted he's going faster than 35mph.  The whole point was to slow people down and many are upset they can't go 50 anymore.

5 hours ago, sunshine said:

Is there a place for us to write to the city to ask them to keep the bike lane forever and eventually extend them?

[email protected]  I've already provided my input and got a response within 24hrs thanking me for my input and pointing out individual points that I had made.   So I know they read it.

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One of the things that has most impressed me about living in Orlando over the years is that, even in cases where I didn't have a personal contact, someone responds to inquiries pretty quickly. That has often not been the case in other places I've lived when dealing with the bureaucracy. It's another reason I have often hesitated to move outside the city limits.

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Quote

"

Curry Ford was backed up all the way to Ferncreek. Bumby and Primrose were backed up all the way to the 408. It took us 3 light cycles to get through at Bumby..."

 

Umm, whether it's Bumby, Primrose, or Crystal Lake, that has been the normal state  of things between ~8:00AM - ~9:00AM and 5:00PM - ~7:00PM M-F for the last decade or so.

Edited by Camillo Sitte
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That is why we cant have nice thing, people here are unwilling to give up their driving privelage.  Everything should be giant surface parking with wide roads for cars to get there as quick as they can. I see this as the first step on creating safe street and changing people mindset everything have to be car first. If they want to go from downtown to east Orlando quick, they should take 408.

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14 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Maybe it's because my background is political, but it seems to me like this is a good response.

She acknowledges a problem reaching a fever pitch in her district and notes she went out in the district to see the problem first hand.

What she did NOT do was throw staff under the bus. She did NOT say this must end now.

What she did say was "we will get this right." She encouraged folks to come in from the extremes and work together to fix the problem.

Were I on her staff, I could have written this. If I were the commissioner, my response would have been similar.

How she proceeds from here will be important but Patty usually heads in the right direction, imho.

Good points. I just wish she didn't use words like "starvation" and "local business sales are suffering." Those are big, unsubstantiated claims to make only three days into the study (as @codypet pointed out). I also didn't like her "I prefer common sense solutions" statement. Is she implying that downsizing lanes, adding crosswalks, and adding bike lanes are extreme solutions...? Because those are all Urban Planning 101 strategies she should be advocating.

On the positive side, two responses I've seen in the discussions about this project are that 1) as drivers get used to the new pattern, traffic flow will become smoother and 2) apparently they haven't completely adjusted the timing of the lights yet, but will do so once they get additional traffic pattern data.

For what it's worth, I drove through that stretch Wednesday at 7:00PM and got through at the same speed as usual. This whole backlash looks like a classic case of keeping a giant road for two or three peak hours each day at the expense of supporting people walking or biking.

 

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1 hour ago, sunshine said:

That is why we cant have nice thing, people here are unwilling to give up their driving privelage.  Everything should be giant surface parking with wide roads for cars to get there as quick as they can. I see this as the first step on creating safe street and changing people mindset everything have to be car first. If they want to go from downtown to east Orlando quick, they should take 408.

That would be wonderful if that's what everyone was using it for.  I use it for dinner.  It sucks for that, too.

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1 hour ago, sunshine said:

That is why we cant have nice thing, people here are unwilling to give up their driving privelage.  Everything should be giant surface parking with wide roads for cars to get there as quick as they can. I see this as the first step on creating safe street and changing people mindset everything have to be car first. If they want to go from downtown to east Orlando quick, they should take 408.

Orlando needs more then 1 or 2 ways to get to the east side. We're starved for additional routes there, and then taking one of the few we have and downsizing it is rightfully a show stopper.

 

2 hours ago, alex said:

Good points. I just wish she didn't use words like "starvation" and "local business sales are suffering." Those are big, unsubstantiated claims to make only three days into the study (as @codypet pointed out). I also didn't like her "I prefer common sense solutions" statement. Is she implying that downsizing lanes, adding crosswalks, and adding bike lanes are extreme solutions...? Because those are all Urban Planning 101 strategies she should be advocating.

But its a very real problem if this sort of change destroys our local businesses in that area, which the businesses are complaining of, and posters here even complain that it makes them less likely to go, myself included. Thats a very serious problem in my eyes, and her eyes. There are other alternatives to make it more bike/pedestrian friendly. I don't know what the existing lane widths were, but perhaps reducing their width, making a paved shoulder, and I don't think people are complaining about added crosswalks, or added safety features like pedestrian refuges in the median. The only complaint is about starving the road of its lanes and creating a hazardous issue for drivers along with a disastrous issue for businesses, who assumed the road wouldn't be devastated in this nature.

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37 minutes ago, aent said:

Orlando needs more then 1 or 2 ways to get to the east side. We're starved for additional routes there, and then taking one of the few we have and downsizing it is rightfully a show stopper.

 

But its a very real problem if this sort of change destroys our local businesses in that area, which the businesses are complaining of, and posters here even complain that it makes them less likely to go, myself included. Thats a very serious problem in my eyes, and her eyes. There are other alternatives to make it more bike/pedestrian friendly. I don't know what the existing lane widths were, but perhaps reducing their width, making a paved shoulder, and I don't think people are complaining about added crosswalks, or added safety features like pedestrian refuges in the median. The only complaint is about starving the road of its lanes and creating a hazardous issue for drivers along with a disastrous issue for businesses, who assumed the road wouldn't be devastated in this nature.

1. I agree 100% about the additional routes across town.  It's horrible.

2. I said before that it impacted me, but it's a real thing.  I neglected to share a specific, personal example.  We are meeting a couple from the NW side of town for dinner tonight.  We were supposed to meet in the Hourglass District because they wanted to try Peppino's.  Last week the husband was down there for something else and experienced the road diet.  He texted earlier this week that we need to move dinner to Winter Park because that part of town sucks for traffic.  It would probably be better about 7pm, but he wasn't having coming back to that section. 

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51 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

1. I agree 100% about the additional routes across town.  It's horrible.

2. I said before that it impacted me, but it's a real thing.  I neglected to share a specific, personal example.  We are meeting a couple from the NW side of town for dinner tonight.  We were supposed to meet in the Hourglass District because they wanted to try Peppino's.  Last week the husband was down there for something else and experienced the road diet.  He texted earlier this week that we need to move dinner to Winter Park because that part of town sucks for traffic.  It would probably be better about 7pm, but he wasn't having coming back to that section. 

By 7 pm you could lie down in the middle of Curry Ford Rd and take nap without worrying about getting hit by a car.

Okay, that's an exaggeration. But the traffic has died WAY down by then.

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20 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

By 7 pm you could lie down in the middle of Curry Ford Rd and take nap without worrying about getting hit by a car.

Okay, that's an exaggeration. But the traffic has died WAY down by then.

JFW, are you the Pledge Master for a fraternity? Sounds like a stunt we might have had our pledges pull <evil grin>.

 

 

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51 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

By 7 pm you could lie down in the middle of Curry Ford Rd and take nap without worrying about getting hit by a car.

Okay, that's an exaggeration. But the traffic has died WAY down by then.

Understood and I agree.  He was so annoyed with his 5pm experience the other day that it is out.

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Staff reports in: Transportation Director Billy Hattaway suggests the city dropped the ball on public awareness and notification:

Curry Ford temporary "road diet" provokes praise — and middle finger
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-curry-ford-diet-reaction-20180417-story.html

From the Sentinel

Edited by spenser1058
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There’s plenty of hyperbole (businesses suffering etc) but it went from being a reliable breeze to get through to stop and go with no apparent benefit.  I like the concept but the execution was terrible.   Supporters from outside the district preaching about smart growth and showing up to ride bikes one Saturday morning are not helping their cause.

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I live in the 'hood and haven't found the changes to be any issue. Took a day or two to get used to, that's about it.
I strongly disagree with the project's critics. I'd prefer slightly heavier traffic to excessive speeds down Curry Ford. And while I'm not a business owner in the area, I question the reports that businesses are being devastated. I would like some facts on that, as my observations don't align with that. (Try finding a seat at La Fiesta at 6 on a Friday....hell, even the Sad Winn Dixie is still crowded.)

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On 4/20/2018 at 4:44 PM, Jernigan said:

There’s plenty of hyperbole (businesses suffering etc) but it went from being a reliable breeze to get through to stop and go with no apparent benefit.  I like the concept but the execution was terrible.   Supporters from outside the district preaching about smart growth and showing up to ride bikes one Saturday morning are not helping their cause.

So I have a habit of eating breakfast at Wawa every Saturday morning.  Since this road diet, I've been my bike from my home over by Southern Nights to that Wawa.   I'm one of those one less cars.  Now that Claddgah is open, I have a nice place to bike to from the house.   I really wish Bumby had bike lanes though.

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We did Bosphorus on Friday with little issue.  I do love that place, but I wish the service was better.

Saturday night the wife & I went to Peppino's anyway.  The road diet was causing a bit of traffic even then, but that's kinda what it is supposed to do.  Saw a kid in a car use the bike lane as a turn lane.  It wasn't bad, but the girls inside said it was making a mess of the place.  To be fair, for WHATEVER reason, it was pretty light in there.  Maybe people weren't feeling it that night?  Maybe it was the road?  Who knows?

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I've been in Peppino's a couple of times before the road diet and it was always slow.  The parking lot would always look packed and there'd be 5 people inside.

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Scott Joseph reviewed it in February and was not a fan:
https://www.scottjosephorlando.com/reviews/recent-reviews/61-italian/4233-peppino-s-organic-italian-kitchen-pizzeria

It's Yelp rating currently sits at 3.5 stars with 60 reviews, which isn't stellar.

And this is purely anecdotal, but I live in the neighborhood and the three neighbors I know who have been said it's average but the service is what really sinks the experience.

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