Orlando's Hometown National Champions

[jrs2]

On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 1:52 PM, aent said:

Except if you go back one year, UCF had the same number of games vs top 25 opponents as those who made the CFP invitational, last year UCF's SOS was just as good, it was only the "conference label" that wasn't. And the argument last year because of that was its a fluke, lets see if UCF could repeat it this year, if they win 25 straight games, obviously they'll get in. Yeah, this year UCF's SOS is a bit weaker, thats something beyond UCF's control, but last year it was as strong (hence them ending up #1 in a national championship selector poll).

 

The P5 no doubt's goal is to promote itself, and keep everyone else down, thats on purpose. I think few doubt that. The argument from those like the Herbstreits is that that goal of the P5 is successful, regardless of on the field performance. The same thing happens in the car industry, the car manufacturers claim that having a dealer network owned by third parties is better so thats all that should be allowed, because thats how they're setup, they don't want to change it, even though Tesla is sitting there demonstrating they have their own model which appears better to a whole lot of people. And the "thats the way its always done" and "it makes buying cars a local thing" argument hasn't worked as justification to fight against Tesla doing what they're doing. And its ridiculous when the government won't let them try their own manufacturer owned service and sales center model.

Yeah, errm, about that, I guess you aren't too aware about Tesla and its history... they picked their colors and logos in the mid-2000s as well. They've only had a couple of good quarters as far as making a profit. And even there sales numbers have only been good for a short little while, very recent.

 

Oooh, oooh, I know the answer to that one!!! I KNOW!!! EVERY SINGLE TEAM IN THE P5!!! I guess just like you were not have been aware that Tesla picked their logo and colors in the 2000s, you might not be aware, but UCF was literally the ONLY undefeated team in the entire country in all of NCAA Division I Football last year, outperforming every single P5 and G5 and Independent team on the field! No other team did that! And this year, again no team has showed they're better then UCF, they've won versus every single one. AGAIN, 25 straight games. This year, so far, there are still 4 undefeated teams (of which, again, UCF is one), so we don't know who is the best yet for sure, but if UCF wins their next game, they'll show that they've outperformed everyone in the country for the second consecutive year, this time with one other team being undefeated sharing that title (but no one with it being 26 in a row).

 

On your USF taking the 2-for-1 point, USF is in a very different situation. They haven't won any national championships or even conference championships, they aren't ranked, they don't have their own stadium, etc. UCF already is at a disadvantage getting much less guaranteed money from the conference and media rights deal, they depend on stadium revenue for their success. USF, without a stadium, has to give up that money in rental fees, so unlike UCF, USF isn't actually giving up $2 million per game to play UF in a 2-for-1. Infact, as they make more money from ticket sales, and there stadium is typically half empty, USF stands to make more then normal on their home game as it really will be a neutral site game for UF, half full of Gator fans (just as it was when they played UCF, it was half Knights), they also avoid having to pay rental to the stadium for a game, so they aren't losing millions by taking that deal. And just about everyone agrees UCF is a better team, better facilities, better all around then USF.

Also, why do the P5 teams need an extra home game, often vs literally worst of the division teams like the Citadel and Georgia Southern? Why can't they play an equal number of home and away games? Why do they need an extra advantage? Why does every single OOC that isn't forced upon them have to be vs a bottom dweller played at home for all of the "top" schools? 

You UCF'ers have a justification for everything.  Why did I get fired? It was his fault, not mine, no, no, no!  That mentality permeates the UCF athletic department.  and I really wish you would read my prior posts before posting misinformation; it really gets tiring.

I don't know where you're getting your information from on 2017 UCF in comparing them with the Playoff teams. "Same number of games versus the Top 25?  UCF's SOS was just as good; it was only the conference label that wasn't?" 

Here were UCF's numbers followed by the other Playoff teams (and TOSU) in the categories that mattered: 

Top 25 wins, Top 50 wins, SOS rank:

UCF: 3, 5, 49

OU: 4, 6, 32

Bama: 4, 7, 16

Clemson: 4, 9, 11

UGA: 5, 6, 5

TOSU:  4, 6, 4

So, UCF loses in every one of these categories of Top 25 wins, Top 50 wins, and SOS, compared to every team ranked ahead of them in the final Playoff Poll.  But these numbers are taken by UCF's friend, the Colley Matrix Poll in Week 16 before the Playoff occurred, but after the conference championships were played.

There is no plot to keep everyone down.  Seriously? Go to any major football school and you'll see that in between the tough games on their schedule, they schedule patsy games for cush wins.  These schools are smaller non-conference football schools.  This has always been the case.  UCF historically is one of those schools.  They've tried to evolve away from that, but that's their bloodline, and always has been.  Going 12-0 or 13-0 against a weak schedule means nothing to the AP or Coaches Polls or to The Playoff or to the BCS or any other selector historically, except the Colley Bias Free Matrix Poll which values non-losses much more than tougher schedules.  That's UCF's bone that was thrown to it.  But now, what started with curiosity (by non-UCF fans and the media), has evolved into the butt of a joke and references to the "kids table" by some commentators and pundits, as in, UCF belongs at the...

Why? Because UCF fans ignore facts.

[spenser1058]

And we’re STILL Florida’s highest ranked team.

[HankStrong]

I've mostly stayed out of this recently, but it does boil down to some basic items.

 

• UCF isn't a big name nor is it a legacy school and they aren't in a P5 conference.
• The P5 conferences have a stranglehold on the "official" (I know, it's not 100% official, thus the quotes) national champion via the playoffs.
• That's not quite fair because the best teams in the nation aren't always a P5 school.
• The P5 stronghold actually means the rich will get richer.
• The SOS model is stacked against any non-P5 team before the season even begins because most P5 teams aren't going to schedule 1-1 games like they will always do to add to their SOS.
• Most, but not all, teams count on home games every other year against strong-ish teams meaning they have a solid shot every other year.
• Spenser loves this team.

It's certainly not fair, but I think people without team loyalty can see both sides.  The American needs stronger teams.  If these teams start winning games over decades, they will speak for themselves.  The P5 needs to realize they aren't gods.

 

[spenser1058]

Pat Dooley, longtime sports columnist for the Gainesville Sun and one of the deans of Florida sports columnists (especially the Gators), notes this week that there are 5 most important Bowl games this time around. LSU-UCF is one of them.

Most importantly, Dooley notes this game matters more to the SEC than it does to LSU. Why is that and why are the SEC fanboys and media types more exorcised about UCF than just about anyone else? (The Big 10 and PAC 12 except Wash. State all but ignore us). It seems to be that, once ‘Bama is out of it, the whole cloak of invincibility of the SEC is more than a little tattered and upstart UCF is demonstrating that.

Because I’m old enough to remember when Florida ignored FSU and Miami (the governor and Legislature had to get involved to make the Gators play FSU), I’m having a splendid time watching the faithful (including jrs) try and ignore that the landscape has already irrevocably changed.

It literally makes no sense to act as though schools like Ole Miss and Wake Forest should be forever left inside the tent while schools ten times their size are left out.

Further, it’s funny to hear such traditions are immutable when, just five years ago, UCF played Baylor in the BCS Fiesta Bowl because of our ties to the Big East, which became the AAC in football.

Another pundit made clear that things change as soon as the incentives line up for enough teams and UCF has made it possible to cloak those incentives in fairness so folks like the president of THE Ohio State University can support an 8-team playoff.

The truth is, we’re already well on our way and Hank, I think you’re right that the key to success is for the AAC to play better football and also to recruit the teams like Fresno State that will make us even better..

If we do that, we keep building attendance, attract more eyeballs, get bigger TV contracts and hence more resources. The New York Times published an article this week about how the future of the US economy is urban not rural. There’s no reason to think the future of our universities isn’t similar. We’re on the right side of history and I’m loving every minute of it.

Charge On!

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

And we’re STILL Florida’s highest ranked team.

Yes!  Sir Spencer, you are indeed!

 

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Pat Dooley, longtime sports columnist for the Gainesville Sun and one of the deans of Florida sports columnists (especially the Gators), notes this week that there are 5 most important Bowl games this time around. LSU-UCF is one of them.

Most importantly, Dooley notes this game matters more to the SEC than it does to LSU. Why is that and why are the SEC fanboys and media types more exorcised about UCF than just about anyone else? (The Big 10 and PAC 12 except Wash. State all but ignore us). It seems to be that, once ‘Bama is out of it, the whole cloak of invincibility of the SEC is more than a little tattered and upstart UCF is demonstrating that.

Because I’m old enough to remember when Florida ignored FSU and Miami (the governor and Legislature had to get involved to make the Gators play FSU), I’m having a splendid time watching the faithful (including jrs) try and ignore that the landscape has already irrevocably changed.

It literally makes no sense to act as though schools like Ole Miss and Wake Forest should be forever left inside the tent while schools ten times their size are left out.

Further, it’s funny to hear such traditions are immutable when, just five years ago, UCF played Baylor in the BCS Fiesta Bowl because of our ties to the Big East, which became the AAC in football.

Another pundit made clear that things change as soon as the incentives line up for enough teams and UCF has made it possible to cloak those incentives in fairness so folks like the president of THE Ohio State University can support an 8-team playoff.

The truth is, we’re already well on our way and Hank, I think you’re right that the key to success is for the AAC to play better football and also to recruit the teams like Fresno State that will make us even better..

If we do that, we keep building attendance, attract more eyeballs, get bigger TV contracts and hence more resources. The New York Times published an article this week about how the future of the US economy is urban not rural. There’s no reason to think the future of our universities isn’t similar. We’re on the right side of history and I’m loving every minute of it.

Charge On!

Lots of points here:

1.  The SEC cares more than the other conferences because the SEC is the nation's toughest conference.  Not gonna waste time proving it; just look at the recent history.

2.  Bama won't be out of it until Saban retires and Bama goes on probation.  

3.  You mentioned Ole Miss.  Here's how much Ole Miss' football program is worth according to this Forbes Most Valuable Programs List/ Revenue & Profit.  Where does UCF fall on that list?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2018/09/11/college-footballs-most-valuable-teams/#484f3fbd6c64

And, where does "ten times their size" get you anyway?  These are big money schools.  Ole Miss can build a BHN Stadium free and clear every 18 months without batting an eye.  Can UCF?  That's why I hate that 60k number...it means nothing; no substance when it comes to football.  How does that brand-less 60k translate into dollars?  It doesn't.

Here, I want everyone to see this:

 

[spenser1058]

JRS, you remind me of someone at Sears in 1995 saying, “no need to worry about that Amazon thing, they’re just shipping books out of a tiny room in Seattle.”

(A business column I recently read noted if Walmart had done the same things it’s done the past 2-3 years to stop Amazon 10-15 years ago, there’d be no Amazon to stop.)

Or if Xerox had taken its PARC facility seriously at the dawn of the PC era, Xerox would be the leading tech company today, not a footnote.

What matters is the trend. Let’s meet in 5 years or10 and see if everything is as it is now or, more likely, if the world has changed.

Just for comparison sake: imagine if I told anyone in Florida in 2008 that by 2017 UCF would be the highest ranked program in the state and FSU wouldn’t be in the top 3. But that’s exactly where we are.

Charge On into the Future, not the Past.

Edited December 17, 2018 by spenser1058

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

JRS, you remind me of someone at Sears in 1995 saying, “no need to worry about that Amazon thing, they’re just shipping books out of a tiny room in Seattle.”

(A business column I recently read noted if Walmart had done the same things it’s done the past 2-3 years to stop Amazon 10-15 years ago, there’d be no Amazon to stop.)

Or if Xerox had taken its PARC facility seriously at the dawn of the PC era, Xerox would be the leading tech company today, not a footnote.

What matters is the trend. Let’s meet in 5 years or10 and see if everything is as it is now or, more likely, if the world has changed.

Just for comparison sake: imagine if I told anyone in Florida in 2008 that by 2017 UCF would be the highest ranked program in the state and FSU wouldn’t be in the top 3. But that’s exactly where we are.

Charge On into the Future, not the Past.

Fair enough.

But Oregon seemed like they were a major trend with their high flying offenses and chrome duck wing helmets back in the late 2000's.  But look at them today... less traction  than they had in 2013, and they are a PAC-12 team in the P5 that plays a respectable schedule, and No.12 in that Forbes list.  UCF isn't anywhere near that list and isn't even in a P5 conference like Oregon is and was, so how would they do anything remotely close to that by going 13-0 against inferior opponents?

The Amazon example denotes that UCF is doing things differently than all these other P5 schools.  They recruit, they play a schedule, they play in a football stadium, they're on TV, the media writes articles about their games.  What are they doing that so Amazon?

 

[spenser1058]

2 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Fair enough.

But Oregon seemed like they were a major trend with their high flying offenses and chrome duck wing helmets back in the late 2000's.  But look at them today... less traction  than they had in 2013, and they are a PAC-12 team in the P5 that plays a respectable schedule, and No.12 in that Forbes list.  UCF isn't anywhere near that list and isn't even in a P5 conference like Oregon is and was, so how would they do anything remotely close to that by going 13-0 against inferior opponents?

The Amazon example denotes that UCF is doing things differently than all these other P5 schools.  They recruit, they play a schedule, they play in a football stadium, they're on TV, the media writes articles about their games.  What are they doing that so Amazon?

 

I think mostly it’s the fact that Danny isn’t kowtowing to the idea that he needs to run around the country begging and scraping for the legacy programs to throw UCF their scraps like some have suggested Boise State did.

Instead, he’s proudly announcing we’ve earned at least a chance to sit at the big boy table and if they choose to refuse us, recognizing there’s a third way.

Why try to grovel our way into the Big 12 or whatever when our program is already building attendance and being televised on prime time and Game Day?

We can be the prime movers in building an AAC that can’t be ignored rather than waiting on the Grumpy Old Men of the P5 to allow us our spot. That’s the new paradigm to me (and it’s kinder, gentler too!)

[jrs2]

16 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

I think mostly it’s the fact that Danny isn’t kowtowing to the idea that he needs to run around the country begging and scraping for the legacy programs to throw UCF their scraps like some have suggested Boise State did.

Instead, he’s proudly announcing we’ve earned at least a chance to sit at the big boy table and if they choose to refuse us, recognizing there’s a third way.

Why try to grovel our way into the Big 12 or whatever when our program is already building attendance and being televised on prime time and Game Day?

We can be the prime movers in building an AAC that can’t be ignored rather than waiting on the Grumpy Old Men of the P5 to allow us our spot. That’s the new paradigm to me (and it’s kinder, gentler too!)

That GameDay event was because there were no other good games on in the rest of the country.  Not my opinion; it's a fact; that was scrub week.  Don't let that fool you into thinking it will create a trend. 

Ok.  So that's White's strategy.  I personally think it's the wrong strategy.  I would grovel to the Big 12 and get into the P5 than toil with the AAC.  Serve in Heaven or rule in Hell, as they say, but at the end, Satan gets thrown into the lake of fire, as it is written. 

Which scenario do you think is best for UCF?  Actually, you can't say UCF rules in Hell because they never played Boise State or Fresno State or BYU or App State or Ga Southern, so, they only rule in their small corner of Hell, not all of it.  Besting your corner doesn't mean you are the best in class; White isn't scheduling even those schools to settle who's best of the G5.

It goes like this:  UCF has the stance that because they go 13-0 or 12-0, that they are better than a P5 school with at least 1 or 2 losses or even 3 losses.  Ok.  The criticism is that they don't have any marquee games and wins versus P5 schools.  Now that I think about it, that's a flawed criticism, because UCF hasn't even beaten the other marquee G5 schools yet in either of those two undefeated seasons, to be considered the best of the bunch, and those two seasons are paramount for this example, because without them, UCF is just a bug splatter on a football team bus windshield driving through Orlando to the Miami, UF, or FSU game. 

Going undefeated on a weak schedule doesn't make you the spokesperson or representative for the G5 when you don't even play those other marquee teams.  That's like Deion declaring himself "Prime Time," which made him douchy at first.  But, to Deion's credit, he backed it up on the field. 

UCF has crowned itself not only "king" of the G5, but also last year's national champs over the P5 based on the Colley Bias Free Matrix computer poll.  They even game themselves a parade or two. That's like declaring yourself the Heisman winner just because you had the best stats, which really is arrogant, because even in the Heisman voting, they look at the level of competition and performance against top teams, and performance in road games against good competition.  In a way, the Heisman is no different than the AP or Coaches polls.

The rest of college football respects that system, except UCF doesn't.  That's why no one respects UCF and their 13-0 and 12-0 seasons.  Respect is freely given, not self proclaimed and forced upon others like some Central American dictatorial propaganda machine. 

That's not a good place to be for a program trying to make or have good PR for itself.

[HankStrong]

 

 

[spenser1058]

This column about what a dinosaur the bowls have become is right in sync with the UCF kerfuffle. An antiquated system falling apart at the seams that a bunch of folks (especially in one or two conferences) keep squawking about as “tradition” but which in fact looks totally out of place in the 21st century.

https://thebiglead.com/2018/12/10/bowl-games-are-the-cigarette-lighters-in-cars-of-the-sports-world/

From the Big Lead

 

[jrs2]

19 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

This column about what a dinosaur the bowls have become is right in sync with the UCF kerfuffle. An antiquated system falling apart at the seams that a bunch of folks (especially in one or two conferences) keep squawking about as “tradition” but which in fact looks totally out of place in the 21st century.

https://thebiglead.com/2018/12/10/bowl-games-are-the-cigarette-lighters-in-cars-of-the-sports-world/

From the Big Lead

 

"If you’re going to ask me to play in a football game, I’m going to need something real to be at stake for my team, and there’s going to have to be something real in it for me. Call it hazard pay. "

Hmmm.  Interesting choice of article, in that, it totally kills your argument that Auburn had anything left to play for and that "not giving it their best" against UCF was no excuse.  This guy seems to think it is...

Look, the greatest bowl game ever is what they call "The Granddaddy of them All" in LA between the Big 10 and Pac 10 champs.  All the other bowls more or less were between conference champs and usually independents or non-conference champs.  There is a long history of AP and Coaches No. 1's.  Some of TOSU and Bama's national titles are split, among other teams like Ga Tech, CO, Miami, Washington, etc.  The Bowl Alliance in 1995 tried to pit Nos. 1 & 2 together (Nebraska beat Florida).  In 1996, TOSU felt their 1 loss Buckeyes should get a share of 1-loss Florida's national championship b/c they upset undefeated ASU, but they didn't.  In 1997, you actually had yet another split title (Nebraska & Michigan).  So in 1998, the BCS was born.  But, in 2003, the AP defected because of Pete Carroll's crying, which cast doubt again on a consensus No.1. Ten years passed, then, in 2014, The Playoff began, with the Top 4.

So, with the BCS, No.3 will be complaining about No.2, and with The Playoff, No.5 will be complaining about No.4.  Expand to 8 teams and No.9 will be complaining, and so on.

I do agree that if you're not in the Final 4, that even an NY6 seems meaningless and loses luster when 4 teams are in the actual Playoff.  But, bowl games are also good for recruiting and the teams make $$$ as do their respective conferences and they give positive momentum for the following season.

If they incorporate the conference championships into it, that may work, but I'm not sure I would give equal footing to the AAC and other conferences (for obvious reasons).  So they would either do it by taking the standings, like so, or, via the AP and Coaches polls instead like they do now for a 4-team playoff. 

College just does not translate well to the NFL way of doing things.  UCF would like for this to happen because it would allow them to bypass everything that P5 schools have worked so hard to get over the years.  The P5 will simply not allow that to happen, and I don't think they should. There have been talks for a playoff for decades, and they've had one for 5 years now.  UCF finally waking up and beating a G5 schedule has about as much weight in expanding the playoffs yet again as does a motorboat trying to stop a cruise ship. It's not like it's TOSU pressuring the NCAA because of missing the Playoff the past two seasons.  I'd hate to say that UCF is a "nothing" in the eyes of the NCAA, but...I'll let you guys be the judge of that.  You guys figured UCF deserved to march down Main St. last year; maybe you can analyze this last point about their program in the eyes of the NCAA.

[spenser1058]

35 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

"If you’re going to ask me to play in a football game, I’m going to need something real to be at stake for my team, and there’s going to have to be something real in it for me. Call it hazard pay. "

Hmmm.  Interesting choice of article, in that, it totally kills your argument that Auburn had anything left to play for and that "not giving it their best" against UCF was no excuse.  This guy seems to think it is...

Look, the greatest bowl game ever is what they call "The Granddaddy of them All" in LA between the Big 10 and Pac 10 champs.  All the other bowls more or less were between conference champs and usually independents or non-conference champs.  There is a long history of AP and Coaches No. 1's.  Some of TOSU and Bama's national titles are split, among other teams like Ga Tech, CO, Miami, Washington, etc.  The Bowl Alliance in 1995 tried to pit Nos. 1 & 2 together (Nebraska beat Florida).  In 1996, TOSU felt their 1 loss Buckeyes should get a share of 1-loss Florida's national championship b/c they upset undefeated ASU, but they didn't.  In 1997, you actually had yet another split title (Nebraska & Michigan).  So in 1998, the BCS was born.  But, in 2003, the AP defected because of Pete Carroll's crying, which cast doubt again on a consensus No.1. Ten years passed, then, in 2014, The Playoff began, with the Top 4.

So, with the BCS, No.3 will be complaining about No.2, and with The Playoff, No.5 will be complaining about No.4.  Expand to 8 teams and No.9 will be complaining, and so on.

I do agree that if you're not in the Final 4, that even an NY6 seems meaningless and loses luster when 4 teams are in the actual Playoff.  But, bowl games are also good for recruiting and the teams make $$$ as do their respective conferences and they give positive momentum for the following season.

If they incorporate the conference championships into it, that may work, but I'm not sure I would give equal footing to the AAC and other conferences (for obvious reasons).  So they would either do it by taking the standings, like so, or, via the AP and Coaches polls instead like they do now for a 4-team playoff. 

College just does not translate well to the NFL way of doing things.  UCF would like for this to happen because it would allow them to bypass everything that P5 schools have worked so hard to get over the years.  The P5 will simply not allow that to happen, and I don't think they should. There have been talks for a playoff for decades, and they've had one for 5 years now.  UCF finally waking up and beating a G5 schedule has about as much weight in expanding the playoffs yet again as does a motorboat trying to stop a cruise ship. It's not like it's TOSU pressuring the NCAA because of missing the Playoff the past two seasons.  I'd hate to say that UCF is a "nothing" in the eyes of the NCAA, but...I'll let you guys be the judge of that.  You guys figured UCF deserved to march down Main St. last year; maybe you can analyze this last point about their program in the eyes of the NCAA.

Actually, the president of THE OSU is on record as saying we should look to expanding the playoffs. But, nevertheless, just keep trying to resist change and we’ll see what happens in five years (remember, five years ago you would have thought it ridiculous that UCF would be Florida’s highest ranked program and with an excellent shot at taking down LSU in two weeks (they said there was no way we’d beat Auburn,either and then changed it after the game to “they really didn’t care.”)

Embrace change, jrs. It’s the only thing that’s inevitable.

[spenser1058]

And now, even Herbie is a believer!

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-football/news/kirk-herbstreit-ucf-college-football-playoff-national-championship-fiesta-bowl-lsu-sec/wlwr7ncqjqrs13i7wgyiziroz

From the Sporting News

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by spenser1058

[jrs2]

58 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Actually, the president of THE OSU is on record as saying we should look to expanding the playoffs. But, nevertheless, just keep trying to resist change and we’ll see what happens in five years (remember, five years ago you would have thought it ridiculous that UCF would be Florida’s highest ranked program and with an excellent shot at taking down LSU in two weeks (they said there was no way we’d beat Auburn,either and then changed it after the game to “they really didn’t care.”)

Embrace change, jrs. It’s the only thing that’s inevitable.

These people aren't jumping on UCF's bandwagon, my lil' fren' (think Scarface).

It's not about embracing change; it's about what benefits the different players.

Herbie's team has gotten shut out of The Playoff the past two years, so, what benefits UCF also  benefits TOSU, otherwise, he'd be against it.  And it benefits UCF to have a power player in a similar yet different predicament.  TOSU's recent past is one where they won one NC based on a bad call and Miami fans are still fuming.  Two other national title berths ended in blowout losses, which supported the fallacy that the Big Ten was a weaker conference.  That lasted for a few years and it took Urban some time to win big games post probation and beat Saban in a rematch to shake off that stigma, until Clemson blanked TOSU 31-0 one year and TOSU missed the Playoff the next two, and now Urban retires.  The truth is, that Saban and perhaps Dabo are the two other best coaches in the NCAA, and great coaches are not easy to come by.  I believe Mullen is part of that ilk and Kirby Smart probably is too, and we'll see over the next couple of years about Mullen.

So, TOSU is on it's way down maybe a notch, and an 8 team playoff would really help them a lot.  It would help The Gators a lot too, since UGA looks to not be going anywhere anytime soon.  But, UF has a 2017 Bama shot at getting in at No.4 if they lose to UGA and beat everybody else, but so does UGA and/or the SECW Champ if they lose to UGA in the SECCG.  And either one of these scenarios doesn't help TOSU.  Add to this the resurgence of Notre Dame and potentially Michigan getting great finally with Harbaugh.  Michigan is in TOSU's division.  Add to this the Scott Frost effect.  If he's as good as they say he is, then Nebraska may be a contender in the Big Ten next year.  Michigan State is usually tough and so is Penn State with Franklin.  TOSU need the 8 team playoff, badly.

Add to all this Jimbo at A&M.  Personally, I think this spells doom for Auburn, but they always seem to have a fantastic team every few years anyway.  LSU isn't going anywhere either, but they need a great coach.  Orgeron isn't enough to get them back I don't think.

FSU may make it back with their new coach, but they won't keep UF from a Playoff berth next year; MO might and Auburn and LSU and UGA and Miami or a combo of 2 of those teams might.  Maybe UK on the road, but they lose Snell.

Expanding The Playoff another level means at least another game.  The more you play, the greater the risk you'll get key injuries.  On the injury front, aside from questionable coaching, between injuries and transfers from player mismanagement, look no further as to why UF sucked ever since 2011 (Brantley in 2011; Driskell in 2013; Driskell after 2013; Del Rio in 2016; Grier in 2015; Harris after 2015; Murphy after 2013; Brissette after 2011-- did I miss one? (as if that wasn't enough)).  UCF felt the "bern" in it's final two games, but if that QB played an SEC schedule, they would've lost those two games.

UCF may not have the horses to play meaningful depth football when injuries occur.  Late this year, UF was down 8 players in the secondary due to injuries.  That's why Fromm exploited it in the second half; he and Lock.  Mullen did as good job as one could do in keeping it together in spite of all that.  UCF would need to withstand this type of attrition in the lineup for talk of a playoff expansion to even matter to them.

If LSU beats UCF and UF beats Michigan, UF will jump UCF in the polls easily.  But I don't think UF will beat Michigan, so more than likely, a 12-1 or 13-0 UCF team stays ranked ahead of UF in 2018.  UF will land a stellar recruiting class regardless of UCF's rank, and now with Mullen, they will be developed properly.  I'm not going to say that UCF's days are numbered, because I don't know what USF and Memphis or even Stanford next year will be capable of, and it looks like the backup to KZ may be pretty good, coupled with a decent job Huepel is doing, so...we'll see... 

Just hope that OU doesn't start sucking with the coach they currently have.  Also, when you have a talent like Milton, you can call bad plays but nobody notices because of the heroics.  It's the Tebow effect.  But once that exceptional talent is gone, that places more pressure on the coach- that's when you know whether it's a good coach or not.  The verdict is still out on Huepel.

[jrs2]

Y'all know the specialty license plates in Florida, right?  There's a whole lot of them, like over a hundred... 

UCF plates are ranked 26th is numbers in 2017 with roughly 18k of them on the roads.  That's pretty good and Charge On!

UF plates are ranked No.1 in the state with approximately 95k of them on the roads (FSU has 72k, and Miami has 25k)

Doesn't UCF have 60k students enrollment? 

What happened to al that alumni and current student support?  I mean, you'd think, with all those students...  (to their defense, they jumped from 36th in 2015 to 30th in 2016 to 26th in 2017, so we'll see how next year's stats change after back to back undefeated regular seasons)

This doesn't really match the pro-UCF rhetoric on these boards, and attitude of Danny White.  Up and coming is one thing, but if they really were up and coming, it would show in school spirit and support; plates are a big indicator of that.

https://www.flhsmv.gov/specialtytags/tagsales.pdf

Remember how I talked about brand?

Do all you UCF'ers have UCF plates?  I've got my Gator plates...

[spenser1058]

I have my UCF plate AND a KnightPass for tolls, thank you very much.

[spenser1058]

Ohana continues! Hawaiian QB Dillon Gabriel picks UCF over USC and UGA.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/hawaiin-qb-target-picks-ucf/

From CBS Sports 

Charge On!

Edited December 19, 2018 by spenser1058

[aent]

On 12/17/2018 at 2:58 PM, jrs2 said:

1.  The SEC cares more than the other conferences because the SEC is the nation's toughest conference.  Not gonna waste time proving it; just look at the recent history.

 

I think thats the problem so many outside the SEC have: the point of the playoff was supposed to make the top team prove themselves worthy, but the SEC doesn't want to waste time proving it. It may be true, but thats why CFB is plagued with multiple national champs in the same year. Teams failed to prove, in all likelihood, they're better then others.

 

On 12/17/2018 at 2:58 PM, jrs2 said:

And, where does "ten times their size" get you anyway?  These are big money schools.  Ole Miss can build a BHN Stadium free and clear every 18 months without batting an eye.  Can UCF?  That's why I hate that 60k number...it means nothing; no substance when it comes to football.  How does that brand-less 60k translate into dollars?  It doesn't.

 

Again, this is literally the argument made against Tesla. They aren't selling many, then when they get on that list, they aren't making a profit, etc.... 

 

On 12/18/2018 at 11:38 AM, jrs2 said:

UCF has crowned itself not only "king" of the G5, but also last year's national champs over the P5 based on the Colley Bias Free Matrix computer poll.

Why do you keep failing to mention the NCAA crowned them national champs last year as well? The NCAA setup a system of determine in, using a combination of selectors, and UCF met the requirements.

 

On 12/18/2018 at 11:38 AM, jrs2 said:

The rest of college football respects that system, except UCF doesn't.  That's why no one respects UCF and their 13-0 and 12-0 seasons.  Respect is freely given, not self proclaimed and forced upon others like some Central American dictatorial propaganda machine. 

 

Except Alabama, who is still claiming past national championships that the NCAA doesn't recognize, along with a handful of other teams that do that. UCF hasn't done that (yet). Why do you keep ignoring that fact? Because its history, and history only matters about tradition and to choose the best teams, but not on the actual awards of the title?

 

On 12/18/2018 at 1:57 PM, jrs2 said:

So, with the BCS, No.3 will be complaining about No.2, and with The Playoff, No.5 will be complaining about No.4.  Expand to 8 teams and No.9 will be complaining, and so on.

 

Except we pretty much never hear that whining in pretty much every other sport. If you expand to 8 (or my preferred 10) and give every P5 conference a slot, the G5 a slot, and 2 or 4 at larges, every team had a fair shot opportunity to get in. They lost it by losing their conference. The only exception would be the G5, but I'd say one of the at large spots (of the 2 or 4) should be guaranteed to any undefeated team who hasn't got in gets one of those slots,, but that should be extremely rare (basically requiring 2 undefeated G5 teams, I don't know if thats ever happened?)

 

4 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Y'all know the specialty license plates in Florida, right?  There's a whole lot of them, like over a hundred... 

[...]

Yup, just like when we look at the total number of registered Tesla's, they're doing really poorly. Even looking at the raw number growth, Tesla isn't doing amazing when you compare them to some SUVs and trucks from Ford and the like... but its pretty freakin clear what the trend is doing.

Microsoft in the 90s and early 2000s had 95% marketshare with IE, Firefox came out, they dropped 5%, no big deal, its only the geeks, lost another 10%, not a huge deal, they're stilll gonna be dominant forever because it ships on every computer. Fast forward and they've recently announced no further development of their browser, they're going to start shipping a Chromium skin. Newcomers don't start with dominant numbers, even in the years they're performing well, that's how the up and coming process works.

Lets look at those numbers another way, net increase or decrease in plates in the 5 years your own document lists:

UCF GAINED 4,952 plates (does not include post-National Championship sales)

UF LOST 2,016 plates

FSU gained 7,279 (includes FSU national championship in 2013)

Miami gained 1,695 plates.

What were you saying about brand again?

[spenser1058]

Even Finebaum now says expansion is coming. If the human incarnation of the SEC says it, the earth has indeed shifted.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/why-paul-finebaum-believes-the-time-is-now-for-cfp-expansion/amp/

From Saturday Down South

Time to Charge On, jrs! Maybe you can borrow Lee Corso’s Knightro suit...

[jrs2]

15 hours ago, aent said:

I think thats the problem so many outside the SEC have: the point of the playoff was supposed to make the top team prove themselves worthy, but the SEC doesn't want to waste time proving it. It may be true, but thats why CFB is plagued with multiple national champs in the same year. Teams failed to prove, in all likelihood, they're better then others.

 

Again, this is literally the argument made against Tesla. They aren't selling many, then when they get on that list, they aren't making a profit, etc.... 

 

Why do you keep failing to mention the NCAA crowned them national champs last year as well? The NCAA setup a system of determine in, using a combination of selectors, and UCF met the requirements.

 

Except Alabama, who is still claiming past national championships that the NCAA doesn't recognize, along with a handful of other teams that do that. UCF hasn't done that (yet). Why do you keep ignoring that fact? Because its history, and history only matters about tradition and to choose the best teams, but not on the actual awards of the title?

 

Except we pretty much never hear that whining in pretty much every other sport. If you expand to 8 (or my preferred 10) and give every P5 conference a slot, the G5 a slot, and 2 or 4 at larges, every team had a fair shot opportunity to get in. They lost it by losing their conference. The only exception would be the G5, but I'd say one of the at large spots (of the 2 or 4) should be guaranteed to any undefeated team who hasn't got in gets one of those slots,, but that should be extremely rare (basically requiring 2 undefeated G5 teams, I don't know if thats ever happened?)

 

Yup, just like when we look at the total number of registered Tesla's, they're doing really poorly. Even looking at the raw number growth, Tesla isn't doing amazing when you compare them to some SUVs and trucks from Ford and the like... but its pretty freakin clear what the trend is doing.

Microsoft in the 90s and early 2000s had 95% marketshare with IE, Firefox came out, they dropped 5%, no big deal, its only the geeks, lost another 10%, not a huge deal, they're stilll gonna be dominant forever because it ships on every computer. Fast forward and they've recently announced no further development of their browser, they're going to start shipping a Chromium skin. Newcomers don't start with dominant numbers, even in the years they're performing well, that's how the up and coming process works.

Lets look at those numbers another way, net increase or decrease in plates in the 5 years your own document lists:

UCF GAINED 4,952 plates (does not include post-National Championship sales)

UF LOST 2,016 plates

FSU gained 7,279 (includes FSU national championship in 2013)

Miami gained 1,695 plates.

What were you saying about brand again?

The NCAA Records Book shows the following for 2017 on page 115:

Alabama: College Football Playoff, AP, FW-NFF, USA Today

UCF:  Colley

And what have I said that was any different?  I have posted several times that UCF was ranked No.1 by the Colley Bias Free Matrix computer poll, more times than I can shake a stick at, and this is how the NCAA lists the teams ranked No.1 by the selectors.  In this case it lists a No.1 rankings for both 'Bama and UCF because of the selector results. 

Was there language of a "crown" being placed on UCF's head anywhere on that page? Stating that the NCAA recognized UCF's "national championship" and "crowned" them as such when they merely recognize that one of their selectors, Colley, ranked them No. 1 is really pushing it.  There is no denying that Colley ranked them No.1.  It is a fact.  But it doesn't mean that by printing it that the NCAA is stating that UCF is national champ in spite of the fact that they didn't even make the Playoff, which has been the system in place since 2014.  Those are two completely different things.

Colley isn't the AP nor the USA Today.  It is a computer poll which puts more clout on a non loss against a weak opponent than a loss against a very strong opponent.  That's an illegitimate formula because it allows teams to play cream puff schedules in an attempt to jump teams that play tougher schedules.  But, the NCAA has it in there to throw lesser programs a bone.

On the plates issue, UF has 95k plates out there to UCF's 18k- that's what I was saying about brand.

I don't recognize any of Bama's pre-1931 or 1933 national titles, or anyone's for that matter, and I've already stated as much.

In two years, if they do an 8 team playoff, and you have three undefeated P5 teams and five 1-loss P5 teams to round out the top 8, and UCF is sitting at No. 9 with an undefeated record and an SOS of 95, they'll be beotching again that they were wronged and that the system is flawed.  Go play the 2 for 1, or use your ego to reject it and keep playing a weak schedule so that you can continue with this paradigm.  Nobody in college football (the P5) respects The UCF for doing that (maybe Auburn fans do because they are still trying to save face for that loss last year).

Right now UF's recruiting class is ranked No.16, FSU's is around No.15.  and UCF's is ranked No.54 coming off of consecutive undefeated seasons.  Where's the Tesla trend or momentum here?  There is none.  

[spenser1058]

USF managed to attract 14,135 souls to a  bowl in their own hometown. And then....

At the half, Marshall’s Thundering Herd is obliterating USF 28-10 in the Gasparilla Bowl. Someone needs to put the Bulls out of their misery. 

It got worse from there. Poor Bulls....

The poor thangs are now the first team in college football history to go 7-6 after starting 7-0.

Saaaaaaalute!

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/usf-bulls/2018/12/20/usf-goes-out-with-a-whimper-in-38-20-gasparilla-bowl-loss/

From the St. Pete Times 

Edited December 21, 2018 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

The Gators and Knights have moved on and won’t be playing each other any time soon.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/florida-football/watch-ucf-ad-says-hes-moved-on-from-trying-to-schedule-game-with-florida/amp/

From Saturday Down South

[spenser1058]

Chris Hays at the Sentinel ranks the results of the Early Signing Day classes for the 7 major Florida teams. The Gators score an A+, the Knights an A and it goes down the list from there.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/florida-recruiting/blog/os-sp-florida-recruiting-grades-1220-story,amp.html

Edited December 21, 2018 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

This comparison of USF and UCF from the view in Tampa offers some contrast as to how the Knights seem to be moving to another level while the Bulls stall in neutral:

• USF has yet to win a conference championship- UCF has several;

• UCF’s bench strength seems to be deeper as when they beat USF even after losing KZ;

• UCF has been spending more quickly on facility investments like an indoor training field (we even beat the Gators on that)and our on-campus stadium.

Those differences, btw, are a big reason why USF felt it needed the 2-and-1 with UF and UCF seems to believe it doesn’t (I’ll post more about what I’m guessing Danny White is thinking a little later).

It’s impossible to know what will happen once the program stumbles and *egad* loses a game. Will the fan base stick and the boosters keep opening their wallets? It does appear, however, that UCF’s foundation to support continued growth is more solid at this point than USF’s. Is it enough to make the default assumption regarding football in Florida a “Big 4” instead of a “Big 3”? 

From all the back and forth here, I believe the answer is yes. JRS2 is seemingly unconvinced.

It’s gonna be fun to see who’s right.

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/usf-bulls/2018/12/21/after-usfs-historic-collapse-is-a-turnaround-even-in-sight/?template=amp

From the St. Pete Times

Edited December 22, 2018 by spenser1058