Orlando's Hometown National Champions

[Jernigan]

UCF has launched a Heisman campaign for Milton 

[spenser1058]

UCF Athletics sets a new fund-raising record this week even as the SEC is still grumbling about the Undefeated National Champions at their annual powwow in Birmingham. 

CHARGE ON!

UCF Athletics sets $13.4 million fundraising record
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/sports-editor-blog/os-sp-ucf-athletics-fundraising-record-20180720-story.html

From the Sentinel

 

[jrs2]

On ‎7‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 10:12 AM, spenser1058 said:

UCF Athletics sets a new fund-raising record this week even as the SEC is still grumbling about the Undefeated National Champions at their annual powwow in Birmingham. 

CHARGE ON!

UCF Athletics sets $13.4 million fundraising record
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/sports-editor-blog/os-sp-ucf-athletics-fundraising-record-20180720-story.html

From the Sentinel

 

This is a long one...I won't lie to you...not aimed at you, oh Great One, rather, a commentary on this national champion business for all Knights to read:

I'm a Gator and I ain't gonna talk trash 'bout the Knights, namely because, my team sucked last year and I'm pretty sure UCF would've cleaned our clocks had we played each other. 

UCF was impressive last year, but the NCAA used to declare the NC based on the AP Poll and Coaches Poll, with the NYT having their strength of schedule-based computer poll in tow, which I think started in the '80's.  The AP and Coaches Polls began in the 1930's.  The BCS started in 1998.  A prior matchup agreement began in 1996 with No.1 vs No. 3 & No. 2 vs No.4, but no playoff, rather, only a chance at a split.  UF at No.3 beat No.1 FSU 52-20, and No.2 ASU was upset by No.4 TOSU (Tosser U).  Tosser U didn't have enough juice to grab a share, and UF was unanimous National Champs.  Nebraska & Michigan split the poll the following year (1990 also saw a split poll; as did 1991). 

Then the NCAA got fed up even after the 1996, 1997 experiment, and created the BCS, where the Harris Poll would kick in midway through the season and pit No.1 vs No.2., and the AP and Coaches polls would vote for the winner of that game. 

In the '90's continuing the trend of the '80's, you had a situation where conferences were locked into a particular bowl game.  Big 8 in the Orange, SEC in the Sugar.  Big 10 in the Rose. SWC in the Cotton...etc...  Miami, ND, FSU, Penn St., Syracuse, etc., were all independents and had no conferences.  But if they were ranked high enough, they would get an invite to the big bowls.  Miami played Nebraska and OU in the Orange Bowl several times.  FSU would lose to Miami and would get shut out of the big game.  Miami took advantage of favorable football talent climate and pushed team speed and throttled the NCAA for so many years.

But then UF got a real coach in 1990, and Alabama got a good one in Stallings.  So, UF became a perennial, and Bama dispatched Miami easily in '92.  Osborne learned his lesson and made his teams faster and was able to throttle UF in '95, while beating Miami in '94, and throttling Tenn in '97.  He missed out in '96 b/c the Big 8 and SWC merged and created the Big 12 and they had to play a conference championship, much like UF and Bama had to, starting in '92;  Osborne was upset by Texas.

So, conferences created the conference championships starting in 1992 with the SEC as the first.  Then the Big 12 in 1997.  Then some time after the ACC scooped up teams and the Big Ten did too and the Pac 10 did as well and they all created a divisional playoff. 

Then, the NCAA was getting fed up that the SEC was dominating the 2000's.  Meyer's UF machine was full steam ahead in 2006 and 2008.  LSU with Saban won it in 2003.  LSU with  Miles won in in 2007.  Auburn was undefeated in 2004 but was snubbed b/c the AP had a hard on for USC and Reggie Bush.  Saban went to Bama in 2007, and Bama won it in 2009, 2011, 2012.  Auburn with Cam won it in 2010.  FSU upset Auburn in 2013.

Then the Playoff came in 2014.  Meyer got revenge against Saban for the 2009 SECCG loss in 2014.  Bama won it in 2015.  Clemson won it in 2016.  Then, Bama beat UGA in 2017.

So.  in 2017.  Bama lost a game in the regular season to Auburn.  Auburn had beaten UGA earlier that year.  Auburn was the new hotness-right up until UGA clobbered them in the SECCG.  So UGA was the SEC Champ, not Auburn.  Bama may have lost to Auburn in the regular season, but Bama didn't even play in the SECG.  So, the NCAA and Harris and whatever polls looked at the conference champs, conference runners up, and one-loss teams that were still highly ranked.  Before the selection was even done, the polls ranked the teams based on all the above plus schedule strength. 

UCF was not in the Top 4.  Why?  Look at their conference.  It was supposed to be the Big East, but by the time they invited UCF in, the following teams split: Louisville, Syracuse, BC, Rutgers, WVU, Pitt.  So the Big East might as well have been renamed the "Nothing" conference.  UCF did a bad job of negotiating the invite into the Big East; they got screwed.  So, USF got a good coach as did Memphis and both ran great offenses like UCF ended up doing last year.  Is there a long conference history?  No.  In a good conference? No.  Are they in a good conference now? No.  Which conferences are better?  SEC, ACC, Big 12, Big Ten, Pac12.  Those are the Power Five.  So, why would a non-Power Five school get a Top 4 nod, in a field that included 1-loss Bama, Clemson, Power OU with Heisman winner QB, and SECC UGA?  Throw in Tosser U as well.

So, back  to UCF.  UCF was matched up with a 2-loss Auburn team that got hammered by UGA in the SECCG, and lost it's ranking to get a playoff berth.  That's the team UCF beat; a 2-loss Auburn team that would've been the third best team in the SEC in 2017 had it not been disheveled.   Texas A&M may have been better in the end.   Just like in 2008 when Bama lost to Tebow in the SECCG and had to settle for playing Utah, who beat them, b/c their hearts were not in it.  Just like in 1993 when WVU got shut out of the NC and UF beat them bad.  Or in 1991, when UF got snubbed by Miami and settled for lowly ranked ND who beat them.

UCF was undefeated, did not play in the playoffs, and beat a 2-loss Auburn team, who's claim to fame were regular season wins against Bama and UGA.  Well, FSU beat UF in '96, but in the rematch, UF throttled FSU 52-20, similar to how UGA manhandled Auburn in their rematch game.  And the key here is that Bama faced off against UGA for the championship game.  UCF didn't play either of these two teams or Clemson or Tosser U.  

But,  Frost went to Nebraska for a reason.  I don't want to rag on UCF, but Nebraska is an established major football school in a major conference.   Now, if Frost decided to stay, then the NCAA would take closer notice for next year, 2018.  But he ditched, which sends a bad message, that UCF is not a destination or dream job school.  2007 was the first year of UCF's on-campus stadium; barely any tradition.  Frost could've created a legacy there and upped the program to be able to make a bid to enter a Power Five conference in a future expansion.  But now, there's a good chance of a downward spiral.

Anyway, UCF is not the national champion for all the reasons listed above.  They are grasping at straws with this Auburn beating Bama business.

This is coming from an SEC guy to show all UCF fans the logic of why they are not national champs per the NCAA and fans from around the country.  You can't self proclaim yourself national champion.  UCF didn't even get the ranking to get into the 4th year in a row established Playoff by the media and computer polls to play the teams that played in the Playoff for a chance to win the national championship.  This is analogous to two teams from the same division in MLB back in the 1980's, when both would have stellar records, but the team with the tiebreaker would win the division, and only division winners could play in the playoffs (no wildcard game).  That's UCF at best.  You can't win the Pennant if you didn't win the Playoff or even play in it.

Now, am I glad they were undefeated?  Yes.  Do I root for them?  Yes.  Did I root for them against Auburn? Yes.  

And one more thing:  biased voters.  Bias is created by tradition and current roster, schedule and coach.  They look at recruiting rankings over a period of years; the size and tradition of major stadiums; major rivalries; win-loss; rivalries that matter; etc.  UCF vs USF doesn't mean anything.  UCF vs Memphis doesn't mean anything either in the grand scheme of the NCAA.  That's the problem.  UCF needs to get into a real conference or revisit how they ended up with the remnants of the Big East as their conference.  Those are important business decisions and the NCAA shouldn't have to bail a school out for making a bad one.  UCF will have to beat every big team that they play from now on.  They need to do what Bobby Bowden did, and what Howard Schnellenberger did, to establish a name for those schools.  What UCF did in 2017 is nothing more than a good start to achieving that end.

PS, I almost forgot, in 1994, Penn St was undefeated.  They were snubbed b/c of their lack of strength of schedule and instead Nebraska played Miami and beat them.  Of course, the same thing happened to Auburn in 2004.  I believe the same think happened to Syracuse in 1988.  So UCF isn't alone and needs to put this in perspective.

Edited July 27, 2018 by jrs2

[spenser1058]

The funny part of all this is that UCF isn't the one who has kept the issue alive. Where is it coming from? The snowflakes in the SEC. Most recently, it was brought up many more times at the preseason SEC powwow than it ever was at the AAC confab. What in the world is the SEC, who has everything, so worried about?

The funny part is that genius AD Danny White did this mostly to bring attention to a Rising program. And who is it that's keeping it alive longer than anyone else? The SEC and their henchman Paul Fineman.

The problem is that there is no longer a way for up and coming programs to work their way up like FSU did when Saint Bobby arrived in 1976. 

The CFP folks say it's all about strength of schedule but how do you get that when Alabama refuses to play you? Of course, variations of this have been around before. The Florida Legislature had to threaten UF to get them to play FSU every year way back when. Maybe they need to make noise again.

The truth is, there's going to have to be a solution sooner than later. It's really easy to ignore Boise State when they were doing well. It's going to get harder and harder to ignore schools with 50000+ students like UCF, USF and Houston.

And, let's be honest. Should schools like Vandy and Wake Forest that couldn't beat any of the top  AAC programs even if they tried automatically be CFP eligible while the AAC schools are shut out?

Why is college football the only sport that doesn't simply allow the best teams to rise to the top?Would UCF have beaten Georgia or Alabama? Who knows? (Did you know we've defeated both in the past?) Why, if the AAC is so weak, does the P5 keep poaching our coaches and now our players.

Bottom line, it's a good ol boy system that makes college football look bad. Let's do the right thing.

Two other notes: UCF's claim is perfectly legitimate because one of the indexes that rates the team did list UCF at the top. Who else has claimed championship status in the past that way? Why, Alabama! Hypocrisy never looks good on a school.

I was raised a Gator from the first game I went to at age 3. I watched Vandy home games in person whenever I could while I lived in Nashville. I was steeped in SEC lore for decades as a Southerner.  I was one of those who thought SEC football was all that mattered. After The Head Ball Coach left, though, Florida football was never the same (don't get me started on Urban Meyer.) The intensity we're seeing in the AAC still amazes me and the fact that the conference has won 3 New Year's bowls in the last 5 years explains why the mighty SEC is frightened of little old UCF.

Bottom line: show your stuff on the field, not in a rigged, smoke-filled room. We didn't accept it in politics - why accept in something as noble as college football?

 

[aent]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

UCF was not in the Top 4.  Why?  Look at their conference. 

UCF played exactly the same number of top 25 ranked teams as Auburn, Alabama, and others in the playoff during the regular season, so maybe if you look at conference, but if you look at SOS, UCF was right up there.

 

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

So, the NCAA and Harris and whatever polls looked at the conference champs, conference runners up, and one-loss teams that were still highly ranked.  Before the selection was even done, the polls ranked the teams based on all the above plus schedule strength. 

The NCAA doesn't do polls. Incidentally, the NCAA also doesn't sanction a playoff in football. UCF performed poorly in the human polls. If you actually look at the computer/algorithm polls prior to the playoffs, some had UCF as #1 in the country then, and most had UCF in the top 4. The problem is under this playoff system, its not like the BCS with computer polls helping to determine the national championship. The playoff is an invitational series that has nothing to do with any algorithm, there is a small board made up of P5 school representatives who vote for who they feel should be in the invitational playoff. There is no criteria or anything of that sort.

 

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

to show all UCF fans the logic of why they are not national champs per the NCAA and fans from around the country

The NCAA doesn't sanction any national championships at all. The NCAA simply recognizes national champions done by other selectors, of which the NCAA has a list of them. At least 1 of the selectors of the national championships last year selected UCF as the #1 ranked school in the nation after the post season, and per NCAA rules, that means they recognize UCF as having a share of the national title. NCAA rules have the title being split between Alabama and UCF, that is the simple fact of it.

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

But,  Frost went to Nebraska for a reason.  I don't want to rag on UCF, but Nebraska is an established major football school in a major conference.   Now, if Frost decided to stay, then the NCAA would take closer notice for next year, 2018.  But he ditched, which sends a bad message, that UCF is not a destination or dream job school. 

A coach leaving a school happens for a variety of reasons. If we're going by this logic, then UF is clearly not desirable either, because after Urban Mayer won his national championships at UF, he also left, to move over to the historically better Ohio State University. Frost played at Nebraska, made it clear his dream was to coach for that team, and he was invited to do so, and seemingly struggled a lot with that choice. It was literally his dream job and it was a tough decision for him. People make decision for a bunch of different reasons, many coaches made it clear UCF is a very desirable position.

Honestly, I went on a vacation along the west coast  (of the nation, California, Nevada, etc) earlier this year, and whenever I wore a UCF shirt, people were congratulating me that my team won, and not a single negative comment or "fake" comment. The only time I get that is from big SEC fans, mainly UF/Alabama fans, which Orlando does have a fair amount of. But the reason you're hearing its not recognized is simply you're around people who support the schools who feel most hurt by it. UF is VERY sore now that they aren't even in the top 3 in the state. Hell, ranking the football schools within the state of Florida, UF likely was #5 or 6 last year, which with the resources and conference UF is in, that is downright embarassing. Admitting the #1 school in the state and especially nation isn't the traditional power 3 of the state is very difficult for them.

[Jernigan]

Everything aent said.  

At the end of the day, it’s not UCFs job to fix the system.   If the playoff included UCF, and UCF wasn’t a top team, then the chips would have fallen where they should. 

The saddest part of the anti-UCFNC sentiment is sports is supposed to be an arena that we say “man up and settle it on the field.”  And instead we have people that would rather relish in a completely subjective formula because it favors their brand.  

Drain the swamp, indeed.

[jrs2]

Oooh, I really stirred up a hornet’s nest.

I know the NCAA doesn’t actually vote.  Also, if one of the selectors voted UCF No.1, then they need to qualify their “national title” as the “Whatever Poll National Champs.”

What do fans in California have to do with recognition of UCF’s 2017 achievements?  Fans in CA are the worst college football fans.  Do they even know the history of their own football teams?  Most don’t and most are fair weather.  Go to Ohio and see if you get the same response.  I have.  And you won’t get the same response.

UF was the NYTimes National Champ in 1984 as a 9-1-1 team that finished No.3 in the AP Poll.  BYU is the recognized champ from 1984.  UF was also ranked No.1 in 1985 by another poll when the AP had them at No.5, but OU was the national champ that year.  UF doesn’t claim those years as national titles.  They used to talk about the 1984 team right up until SOS came to town, then it was a moot point.

That’s my point. 2017 is a starting point for UCF.

UCF’s game against GaTech was canceled.  Had they played it and won, they might have gotten into the Playoff.

All I know is that UF is a charter member of the SEC since the 1930’s and has played football for over 112 years.  UCF is a commuter school that finally started trying to make it into a real traditional university within the past 20 years and has only had an on campus stadium since 2007.  Why should any fan of Bama or UF have respect for a program like that no matter how good their record is?  I mean, I would argue with Tennessee fans over whether the Gator Walk was a better tradition than the Vol Walk, and UCF didn’t even have a stadium at the time.  Give me a break.  If there’s bias, it is well deserved and backed up.

So UCF beats a lowly UGA team in a bowl and Bama when they flat out sucked.  They also blew it in a home game against Mack Brown’s Longhorns because they couldn’t take the pressure of playing a Power Five school that just won the national title only two years before.  Seriously?  Play any Power Five upper division school when they are good on national tv, then come talk to me.

So Meyer left UF.  So what?  Jimbo just dumped on FSU and got hired by A&M.  What does that prove?  Meyer retired and became a commentator at ESPN and then went to Ohio State.  Spurrier quit and went to the NFL and then went to SoCar.  So what?

UCF is also a program that historically can’t make up it’s mind on it’s logo.   And that is a big deal.  I know all about UCF’s recent marketing campaigns and changes to their logo the past decade.  I’m not a teenager who just started watching the sport.  I’ve been around for a while.

Bama, although douchebags, have won the most national titles (real) than any other team in the NCAA.  More than OU; More than Notre Dame.  You won’t get any love loss from them.  And you won’t get any from UF, a team that has to play them whenever we win our division.

The bottom line is that UCF was a 1-AA team up until the past 20 years.  Well, don’t expect such a warm welcome to 1-A with long established schools and teams already there for a hundred years.

Don’t hate the player...hate the game.

[spenser1058]

You mean like FSU and Miami went from afterthoughts to national champions in less than a decade?

Just for the record, UCF has been playing football for almost 40 years now. FSU had been playing for just over 25 when Saint Bobby arrived and transformed the program. UCF has been paying its dues right along.

BTW, I use FSU for the benchmark because Gene McDowell essentially imprinted their program on UCF as the Knights' first serious head coach. 

Edited July 28, 2018 by spenser1058

[Jernigan]

We do hate the “game” and we are doing a pretty brilliant job of stirring the pot.

The funny thing to me is that while UCF and it’s fans have a well deserved chip on the shoulder...it’s obviously not the little school that could.   Once UCF is in a Tier 1 conference, no one outside Orlando is goin to have warm fuzzies that a Florida school with 60k students is getting it done 

[spenser1058]

3 minutes ago, Jernigan said:

We do hate the “game” and we are doing a pretty brilliant job of stirring the pot.

The funny thing to me is that while UCF and it’s fans have a well deserved chip on the shoulder...it’s obviously not the little school that could.   Once UCF is in a Tier 1 conference, no one outside Orlando is goin to have warm fuzzies that a Florida school with 60k students is getting it done 

I like that... a lot.

[spenser1058]

I should mention that I'd rather see UCF be a prime building block in elevating the AAC to a "Power 6" conference than waiting for legacy groups like the Big 10 to decide to welcome us to their elitist fraternity. If Lane Kiffin is being honest that he'd like to play a Bobby Bowden role in bringing FAU to the top level (and then FIU if they become viable), imagine 4 growing Florida schools in an expanded AAC. 

Speaking of Kiffin, I know Coach Frost decided to follow the wishes of his dad and the entreaties of folks like Tom Osborne in going back to Nebraska (the irony is that Scott was often treated like dirt by Huskers fans after transferring back from Stanford.) I have to wonder, though. Even if he does well in Lincoln, he's just the latest in a long line of great coaches at the school.

At UCF, he could have been poised as our Bobby Bowden or Steve Spurrier, the one that transformed the program. Lane(of all people, wow) seems to get that (at least for the moment.)

Oddly enough, some think Coach Heup may eclipse Scott this year. If that happens, the statue may need to go to Danny White. His picks border on amazing and if he goes two in a row, Jeremy Foley is gonna scream!

 

Edited July 28, 2018 by spenser1058

[Jernigan]

15 hours ago, jrs2 said:

But,  Frost went to Nebraska for a reason.  I don't want to rag on UCF, but Nebraska is an established major football school in a major conference.   Now, if Frost decided to stay, then the NCAA would take closer notice for next year, 2018.  But he ditched, which sends a bad message, that UCF is not a destination or dream job school.

 

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

So Meyer left UF.  So what?  Jimbo just dumped on FSU and got hired by A&M.  What does that prove?  Meyer retired and became a commentator at ESPN and then went to Ohio State.  Spurrier quit and went to the NFL and then went to SoCar.  So what?

Sorry, re-reading all of these.

Did this really happen?

Edited July 28, 2018 by Jernigan

[jrs2]

22 minutes ago, Jernigan said:

 

Sorry, re-reading all of these.

Did this really happen?

Yes, it did happen that way...those coaches...

I respect all of your guys' collective fire!  I love it.  I just hope my team doesn't suck...again.

If Josh Heuple (sp) continues where Frost left off, i wouldn't be surprise if the Big 12 doesn't invite them to get Florida exposure for recruiting.

[spenser1058]

I think the Gators pretty much have to be better than last year but Coach Mullen really needs to get his bad boys under control quickly. Florida has turned into a rogues' gallery too often since the days of Urban Meyer and that's a shame. Spurrier went to great lengths to build not only a winning program but a clean one - that legacy needs to be restored.

Meanwhile, how 'bout Coach Boom tearing things up with the 'Cocks - who knew!?!

[Jernigan]

Jrs2 - I know the coaching changes happened I just am taken aback at the hypocrisy in the two posts back to back.   At the end of the day, UCF should feel better about Frost going to return his Alma Mater than FSU should for Jimbo leaving.   Id say they should even feel better than UF fans - Ohio State is a “dream job” but isn’t Florida?

 

[aent]

7 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Oooh, I really stirred up a hornet’s nest.

I know the NCAA doesn’t actually vote.  Also, if one of the selectors voted UCF No.1, then they need to qualify their “national title” as the “Whatever Poll National Champs.”

Yes, the NCAA doesn't vote, it doesn't award national championships. All it does is recognize anything chosen by an NCAA sanctioned list of 12 current "major selectors" of the national championship.  If all the schools want to stop claiming to be NCAA National Champions then thats fine, but as it is, UF still claims they won a few, and Alabama has a ton of questionable claims that they were it as well over the years.

There is no doubt the system is controversial, and remember, UCF is far from the first to do so, and even not the first to do so since systems have been created to prevent "multiple" national champions. The BCS was supposed to do that when it was created in 1998. In 2003 pretty much everyone now regards both LSU and USC as national champions of that year, and USC doesn't asterisk it with (did not play in BCS title game or clarify anything else). At the time, people whined and moaned that USC couldn't be national champs because they didn't play in the BCS game, but they got over it. The CFP had a similiar goal as the BCS, and just like the BCS, it failed to achieve it as clearly there was no consensus last year because the committee of 13 individuals who are not bound to pick by any on field performance, records, or anything else happened to pick the wrong 4 teams last year.  Again, pretty much all the computer polls had UCF in the top 4.

 

Quote

What do fans in California have to do with recognition of UCF’s 2017 achievements?  Fans in CA are the worst college football fans.  Do they even know the history of their own football teams?  Most don’t and most are fair weather.  Go to Ohio and see if you get the same response.  I have.  And you won’t get the same response.

I do know a few Ohio State fans, and the response was the same. For the most part, only SEC member teams are offended by it because it hurts the SEC. UCF claiming it when the other conferences don't feel they had any legit claim 

Quote

UF was the NYTimes National Champ in 1984 as a 9-1-1 team that finished No.3 in the AP Poll.  BYU is the recognized champ from 1984.  UF was also ranked No.1 in 1985 by another poll when the AP had them at No.5, but OU was the national champ that year.  UF doesn’t claim those years as national titles.  They used to talk about the 1984 team right up until SOS came to town, then it was a moot point.

And Alabama claims 16, but only 14 of them were even awarded by NCAA recognized selectors. Obviously we'll have to go back in history a bit, but in 1941 Alabama finished third in the SEC, and was ranked #20 by the Associated Press. They claim a national championship in that year. Sound familiar? ... And they didn't even get picked by ANY NCAA SELECTORS. They got a non-NCAA recognized poll ranking them number 1 and they still went with it. Alabama is literally the most fitting team to have to share their title.

Quote

UCF’s game against GaTech was canceled.  Had they played it and won, they might have gotten into the Playoff.

Maybe, but probably not. The invitational playoff system now with a team of 13 people voting, and those 13 people are affiliated with a certain set of conferences and have a financial incentive to make sure all 4 slots are taken up by members of their own conferences. Why would they select someone outside of their conferences? They know they don't need to pick the best teams in the country, thats not even the goal, its to pick games that given them the highest ratings.

Quote

So Meyer left UF.  So what?  Jimbo just dumped on FSU and got hired by A&M.  What does that prove?  Meyer retired and became a commentator at ESPN and then went to Ohio State.  Spurrier quit and went to the NFL and then went to SoCar.  So what?

I guess I'm glad you agree that Frost leaving UCF meant absolutely nothing, and that your previous comments were entirely wrong...

Quote

UCF is also a program that historically can’t make up it’s mind on it’s logo.   And that is a big deal.  I know all about UCF’s recent marketing campaigns and changes to their logo the past decade.  I’m not a teenager who just started watching the sport.  I’ve been around for a while.

UF's logo until 1994 (and not its first one):

Why did UF not stick with this? It seems like a BIG DEAL they switched their logo a few times.

Quote

Bama, although douchebags, have won the most national titles (real) than any other team in the NCAA.  More than OU; More than Notre Dame.

I think your love for the SEC is showing a little too much. If you go with NCAA recognized national championships, Princeton has 28, Yale has 27, both more then any claims Alabama even makes, let alone the ones the NCAA recognizes.

https://www.si.com/college-football/alabama-crimson-title-football-national-title-dispute

The bottom line is UCF has a NCAA recognized National Championship under its belt even though its only been in 1-A for 20 years, which is super impressive. Obviously the traditional big ole boys never like to recognize the successful newcomers, and thats not unique to sports. IBM didn't want to recognize Microsoft, Microsoft didn't want to recognize Apple with no iPhone marketshare before it was launched, and Tesla is nothing to worry about for the auto makers as well. Thats why the game is played on the field, the results aren't determined in some board room. It took UF 90 years to get that, UCF did it in 39 years after its first football game was played.

Its not too complicated if the NCAA and others want to make it undisputed every year: add a single game to the playoff system for the P5 teams and make it so every P5 conference champion as a slot in the 8 round playoff. Slot 6 goes to the winner of a play in game between the top 2 G5 conference champions. Slots 7 and 8 also have play-in games to the best 4 remaining teams who did not lose a conference championship game. You've now made a 16 team playoff by adding a single game. for almost every school (except the G5 schools who had no way in before add 2 games, if you want to avoid that, just pick the top G5 school for slot 6). With this, it'd be played on the field to determine it, and you could finally eliminate the selector and invitational systems we have now and all the arguments it makes, every time it would be undisputed.

Until there is a clear path for every team who ends up undefeated to play in a game vs each other, there is going to be multiple national titles in the same year floating around. Thats the way its always been, and the way it always will be.

Edited July 28, 2018 by aent

[Jernigan]

In good company 

[HankStrong]

As someone strongly associated with the Buckeyes and who knows more OSU grads than any other college in the country, I'm going to tell you that I've never heard of anyone in any of my circles who cared even a little about UCF's title claim.  That seems to be a SEC problem.

[jrs2]

^^

Lots of great points by all. 

To Aent's points:  About logo:  I mean the helmet.  Forget the Nike promo stuff; I mean the helmet logo.  Also as to Aent's other point about a "clear path", well, this is Div 1-A, not 1-AA.  UCF had their clear path but they wanted to enter 1-A.  Well, you don't just enter 1-A and expect voters to roll over on established programs just because a "start up" in that league just got good.  Wasn't Wisconsin also undefeated until they lost to TOSU in the Big Ten CG?  I would've never chosen UCF over Wisconsin (if that was a choice last year).  That's my and most everyone else's bias.

As for it being an SEC problem:  could be.  But why wouldn't it be?  TOSU lost to UF, LSU, and UF again in bowls since 2006, and Meyer tanked in the big game so many times sans 2014 when he got revenge against Saban.  Don't get me wrong, I'd rather UF to be 11-3 vs 4-7.  Unless you're at the top of the heap almost every year, you're not going to care so much.  Meyer loves it b/c it gets under Saban's skin.  I'm indifferent b/c UF can't beat Bama anyway.

^^

But that's not it at all.  FSU has been good for years.  Miami is Miami.  They're both in the south and both in a "real" conference-now.  FSU would get hammered for being in the cream puff ACC in the 1990's because nobody else was any good in the ACC after 1990 sans UVA one year.  That's what it's about more so.  Even when Miami was in the Big East it was the same thing.  Also, in 2003 LSU won the BCS national title but because Carrol from USC did so much crying the year before, when it was Miami vs TOSU, the AP did an unprecedented flip and voted USC co-national champs.  Everyone in the SEC thought that was BS, and it was.

It's a pride and recruiting issue.

On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 8:55 AM, Jernigan said:

We do hate the “game” and we are doing a pretty brilliant job of stirring the pot.

The funny thing to me is that while UCF and it’s fans have a well deserved chip on the shoulder...it’s obviously not the little school that could.   Once UCF is in a Tier 1 conference, no one outside Orlando is goin to have warm fuzzies that a Florida school with 60k students is getting it done 

You made the same point I made, and I was not being hypocritical.  "When UCF is in a Tier 1 conference"- and that is my main point.  

[spenser1058]

An on campus stadium for the Bulls? Maybe, but they're not impressed by the Bounce House:

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/usf-bulls/2018/07/30/usf-releases-findings-of-on-campus-stadium-feasibility-study/?template=amp

From the St Pete Times

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

An on campus stadium for the Bulls? Maybe, but they're not impressed by the Bounce House:

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/usf-bulls/2018/07/30/usf-releases-findings-of-on-campus-stadium-feasibility-study/?template=amp

From the St Pete Times

Oooh...the “value engineered BHN Stadium.”  Wow.  Well, next year, they can get their asses kicked in BHN Value Engineered Stadium.

USF Bulls...with their “standards” they’ll never get an on-campus stadium.  At least UCF made a plan and executed it and they’ve had their stadium for 12 years now, with a major sponsor, BHN. As far as 18yo recruits are concerned, 12 years is a lifetime.  Shoot, they had an indoor practice facility for several years before UF opened theirs last year.  UCF has been doing the right things.  I think that’s another element I forgot about...namely...a larger stadium and average game attendance.  USF’s hypocrisy is like the guy that isn’t getting laid b/c noone’s good enough, i.e., they’re not Playboy material.  The only bad thing for UCF now is that Strong is a good recruiter in Florida.

[HankStrong]

Most people will admit the bounce house sucks as an actual stadium, though.  I don't agree with the rest of the criticism, but the actual stadium is horrible. 

[Jernigan]

JRS - let’s give UCF credit for being one of the few teams in the modern era to earn their way up.  They played D3, D2, D1AA and then D1A from Indy, MAC, CUSA to American.   We had a BCS affiliation for one season and went ahead and won the thing.   And then we’ve been back to the party and won again.

Compare that to the slew of startups that go from inception to FBS.  No program to 6-6 bowl team in less than 5 years.   I remember being frustrated when UAB and USF got that quick move up due to other sports but now that’s nothing compared to teams like Charlotte and UTSA and Ga Stare that barely played FCS if at all.   

 

[AndyPok1]

On 7/27/2018 at 6:59 PM, jrs2 said:

This is a long one...I won't lie to you...not aimed at you, oh Great One, rather, a commentary on this national champion business for all Knights to read:

I'm a Gator and I ain't gonna talk trash 'bout the Knights, namely because, my team sucked last year and I'm pretty sure UCF would've cleaned our clocks had we played each other. 

[...]

UF at No.3 beat No.1 FSU 52-20, and No.2 ASU was upset by No.4 TOSU (Tosser U).  Tosser U didn't have enough juice to grab a share, and UF was unanimous National Champs.  Nebraska & Michigan split the poll the following year (1990 also saw a split poll; as did 1991). 

 

You make a ton of good points, but you lose all credibility when you resort to bad puns/insults/name-calling when trying to educate/teach/debate.  Rivalries are one of the biggest things that are fun about college football, but using them in this context diminishes the argument.

[jrs2]

40 minutes ago, AndyPok1 said:

You make a ton of good points, but you lose all credibility when you resort to bad puns/insults/name-calling when trying to educate/teach/debate.  Rivalries are one of the biggest things that are fun about college football, but using them in this context diminishes the argument.

Oh, you don't like my Ohio State references.  Okay.  Point taken.  The "T" irritates me.  But I'll behave.

 

56 minutes ago, Jernigan said:

JRS - let’s give UCF credit for being one of the few teams in the modern era to earn their way up.  They played D3, D2, D1AA and then D1A from Indy, MAC, CUSA to American.   We had a BCS affiliation for one season and went ahead and won the thing.   And then we’ve been back to the party and won again.

Compare that to the slew of startups that go from inception to FBS.  No program to 6-6 bowl team in less than 5 years.   I remember being frustrated when UAB and USF got that quick move up due to other sports but now that’s nothing compared to teams like Charlotte and UTSA and Ga Stare that barely played FCS if at all.   

 

Absolutely.  They have earned their way up. 

I think they got the shaft from the Big East and my one Gator buddy thinks they should've sued them for misrepresentation.  I kind of agree.  I know USF did not want them in the Big East for several years which kept them from getting the invite.  But I think that ended up hurting USF in the end because had UCF been an in-conference rival, then that game would've become even bigger and maybe, just maybe, it would have elevated the Big East enough (with yet another major rivalry) to prevent the mass exodus of those major schools and preserve the conference as it was. 

There is one thing, though.  The Big 12  did expand with WVU, who made a splash with OUR quarterback.  Anyway, if UCF can get into the Big 12 that would be huge.  I think if the SEC tried any expansion again, they would go for a team like Texas because of the money, but that won't happen.

6 hours ago, HankStrong said:

Most people will admit the bounce house sucks as an actual stadium, though.  I don't agree with the rest of the criticism, but the actual stadium is horrible. 

I had mixed feelings about it.  Even more so after the City upgraded the Citrus Bowl.  But they needed an on-campus dig.  They may alter it in phases by building east stands structure and then west stands structure out of concrete.  Every school has done that, expanded in phases, that is.  Doak was an iron girder stadium for years and may still be behind the bricks.