Orlando's Hometown National Champions

[spenser1058]

Speaking of P5 teams, how 'bout Virginia Tech (who beat FSU a couple of weeks ago) losing to Conference USA weakling (1-3) ODU 49-35 this weekend? But, say it with me now, P5 TEAMS ARE ALWAYS BEST! Yep, the CFP is just fine the way it is. Received wisdom always trumps empirical evidence in the red states of the SEC! (Speaking of evidence, how 'bout #5 Oklahoma squeaking past G5 Army by 7 in OT?)

While we're on the SEC, a shoutout to undefeated Kentucky. Along with Duke, two hoops powerhouses have finally decided to let their gridiron gangs in on the fun. Salute!

Back in the American, the Bulls had a tough night at RayJ. They managed to beat the ECU Pirates 20-13 and snag a conference win, but it wasn't pretty and by no means a sure thing. The result is probably little pressure on UCF's rankings today from below in the quest for the token New Year's slot (Boise State apparently had a bye week, so quiet there.)

Edited September 23, 2018 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

Why the SEC is scared to death of UCF (hint: it's not the first CFP bid they're likely to get, it's the second:)

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/supremacy-chatter-why-rooting-against-ucf-makes-sense-sec-fans-2018/amp/

From Saturday Down South

The thing is, all this would be moot if they'd just expand the playoffs (like the FCS and EVERY other NCAA sport.) Let's face it, they're just used to hoarding all the marbles.

[spenser1058]

Your Hometown National Champions move up this week's Coaches' Poll 4 spots to #14.

https://www.dawgnation.com/football/coaches-poll-top-25-week-5-georgia-football/amp

From Dawg Nation

Charge On!

[spenser1058]

And we're movin' on up to #13 in the AP poll!

From YouTube

Edited September 23, 2018 by spenser1058

[bqknight]

On 9/22/2018 at 9:28 AM, spenser1058 said:

Oh, one more thing: I love the blackout Pegasus on the uniform sleeves. That is a totally sick look.

So glad they went back to those over the Knight head. Danny White is good about listening to his constituents and people weren't digging the Knight head. They also made improvements to concessions from Game 1 to 2. They still have issues but they took quick action. 

Danny White is the best thing to happen to UCF Athletics. Rumors are we've already signed him to a longer and better contract but they're sitting on it until the PR time is right. 

The only way we lose the rest of the season is if Milton gets hurt or we have a REALLY off game. Our D is meh but the talent at our skill positions on offense is just sick. We have players who can't even get reps who would be starters on almost any other school. Need to keep recruiting well and I think we will given the image our program has now. 

[spenser1058]

1 hour ago, bqknight said:

So glad they went back to those over the Knight head. Danny White is good about listening to his constituents and people weren't digging the Knight head. They also made improvements to concessions from Game 1 to 2. They still have issues but they took quick action. 

Danny White is the best thing to happen to UCF Athletics. Rumors are we've already signed him to a longer and better contract but they're sitting on it until the PR time is right. 

The only way we lose the rest of the season is if Milton gets hurt or we have a REALLY off game. Our D is meh but the talent at our skill positions on offense is just sick. We have players who can't even get reps who would be starters on almost any other school. Need to keep recruiting well and I think we will given the image our program has now. 

The one sure way to solve the strength of schedule problem is to schedule the tougher teams. I know that gets increasingly difficult the better we are because teams are afraid of us, but that's where we'll find out if Danny White really is the Caped Crusader or simply a really great AD. USF, among others, seems to have had some success on this front. I'm really looking forward to see what tools Danny has to fix this on his Bat Belt.

[AmIReal]

On ‎8‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 8:22 PM, spenser1058 said:

The St. Pete Times takes a look at why schools like UCF and USF can't easily bulk up their strength of schedule like SEC homie Paul Finebaum and other Power 5 gatekeepers suggest:

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/usf-bulls/2018/08/31/strength-of-schedule-that-comes-with-a-whole-lot-of-stress/?template=amp

I know you presented this article previously, but I think it is worth bringing up again. It is hard to improve the strength of schedule and it seems lately some of the "better" teams may not want to play us. This, btw, is why it matters if you are in a major conference or not

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/usf-bulls/2018/08/31/strength-of-schedule-that-comes-with-a-whole-lot-of-stress/?template=amp

[spenser1058]

My other task for Danny (since Dr. Whittaker seems to be busy with Accounting 101 at the moment I'll send the memo) is to find a coach who sticks. Josh Heupel and Scott Frost (though he may not feel that way at the moment) were both superstar hires but if we are doomed to run through coaches every couple of years we'll never have continuity.

Ironically, FAU may win on this score with perhaps the most peripatetic coach in NCAA history, Lane Kiffin. He seems to understand what a great gig he has by the beach and may finally be ready to settle down. Not everyone can put up with Lane, but FAU seems laid-back enough to appreciate what they've got. Further, FAU, like USF and UCF before it, seems destined to grow the program . We need to find someone willing to take that role here. If it's Coach Heup, all the better.

Edited September 24, 2018 by spenser1058

[aent]

9 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

My other task for Danny (since Dr. Whittaker seems to be busy with Accounting 101 at the moment I'll send the memo) is to find a coach who sticks. Josh Heupel and Scott Frost (though he may not feel that way at the moment) were both superstar hires but if we are doomed to run through coaches every couple of years we'll never have continuity.

Ironically, FAU may win on this score with perhaps the most peripatetic coach in NCAA history, Lane Kiffin. He seems to understand what a great gig he has by the beach and may finally be ready to settle down. Not everyone can put up with Lane, but FAU seems laid-back enough to appreciate what they've got. Further, FAU, like USF and UCF before it, seems destined to grow the program . We need to find someone willing to take that role here. If it's Coach Heup, all the better.

Wasn't that gol? and fans didn't like that?

[spenser1058]

20 minutes ago, aent said:

Wasn't that gol? and fans didn't like that?

Well, yes, but hopefully a coach from this century this time around, please.

[bqknight]

14 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

My other task for Danny (since Dr. Whittaker seems to be busy with Accounting 101 at the moment I'll send the memo) is to find a coach who sticks. Josh Heupel and Scott Frost (though he may not feel that way at the moment) were both superstar hires but if we are doomed to run through coaches every couple of years we'll never have continuity.

Ironically, FAU may win on this score with perhaps the most peripatetic coach in NCAA history, Lane Kiffin. He seems to understand what a great gig he has by the beach and may finally be ready to settle down. Not everyone can put up with Lane, but FAU seems laid-back enough to appreciate what they've got. Further, FAU, like USF and UCF before it, seems destined to grow the program . We need to find someone willing to take that role here. If it's Coach Heup, all the better.

Until we are in a P5 (if that ever happens) - I'm not sure you will find a coach that sticks. That's just not the name of the game anymore. Coaches don't even stick around at major schools anymore. Lane Kiffin won't have the opportunity to coach at another P5 school again most likely. He comes with WAY too much baggage and risk. Given all the scandals that happen nowadays, you're not going to find a board that approves his hire. He's got the best he's going to get as a head coach right now. 

14 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

The one sure way to solve the strength of schedule problem is to schedule the tougher teams. I know that gets increasingly difficult the better we are because teams are afraid of us, but that's where we'll find out if Danny White really is the Caped Crusader or simply a really great AD. USF, among others, seems to have had some success on this front. I'm really looking forward to see what tools Danny has to fix this on his Bat Belt.

Danny White's strengths seem to be in fundraising. Like you said, it's not going to be easy to find teams to do straight home and homes with us. USF is still allowing 2 for 1's, which UCF said they will no longer do. They want 7 home games a year (more $$ for the school). There has been rumbles that we may get a kickoff game...eventually...if it's right. Unfortunately, even though the head of Florida Citrus Sports is a UCF alum, he doesn't throw his alma mater anything. We were close to another home and home with UM - and he stuck his nose in it and now Miami will only play us here if we play at Camping World. 

[jrs2]

16 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

The one sure way to solve the strength of schedule problem is to schedule the tougher teams. I know that gets increasingly difficult the better we are because teams are afraid of us, but that's where we'll find out if Danny White really is the Caped Crusader or simply a really great AD. USF, among others, seems to have had some success on this front. I'm really looking forward to see what tools Danny has to fix this on his Bat Belt.

Spenser1058, I salute your college football fervor.  I really do.  It's refreshing after months and months of bleh...

Those P5 teams aren't  "afraid" to play UCF.  Rather, it's an analysis of whether they NEED to schedule them to improve their strength of schedule for their respective roads to the Playoff.  It's the Miami fallacy all over again:  UF isn't scared to play Miami year in and year out, rather, UF's strength of schedule is firm year in and year out and they don't need Miami to get to the Playoffs, rather, they just need to take care of business of their own schedule.  The SEC, Big Ten, etc., it's the same situation with each of those teams too.

You're not going to make money playing UCF.  You are going to make money if you get to a major bowl game.  You don't need to play UCF for better recruiting.  There is absolutely no advantage for any P5 team to schedule UCF.

I did not know Danny White is on the staff.  Since when?

[spenser1058]

5 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Spenser1058, I salute your college football fervor.  I really do.  It's refreshing after months and months of bleh...

Those P5 teams aren't  "afraid" to play UCF.  Rather, it's an analysis of whether they NEED to schedule them to improve their strength of schedule for their respective roads to the Playoff.  It's the Miami fallacy all over again:  UF isn't scared to play Miami year in and year out, rather, UF's strength of schedule is firm year in and year out and they don't need Miami to get to the Playoffs, rather, they just need to take care of business of their own schedule.  The SEC, Big Ten, etc., it's the same situation with each of those teams too.

You're not going to make money playing UCF.  You are going to make money if you get to a major bowl game.  You don't need to play UCF for better recruiting.  There is absolutely no advantage for any P5 team to schedule UCF.

I did not know Danny White is on the staff.  Since when?

Oh, I agree with you. But the problem is the SEC (more so than anyone else) insists that to be eligible for the CFP we have to improve strength of schedule. But if they won't schedule you and they do schedule UT-Martin because they know they'll win, that doesn't happen. The problem is the system is broken and the SEC is probably the conference most resistant to fixing it.

[bqknight]

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Spenser1058, I salute your college football fervor.  I really do.  It's refreshing after months and months of bleh...

Those P5 teams aren't  "afraid" to play UCF.  Rather, it's an analysis of whether they NEED to schedule them to improve their strength of schedule for their respective roads to the Playoff.  It's the Miami fallacy all over again:  UF isn't scared to play Miami year in and year out, rather, UF's strength of schedule is firm year in and year out and they don't need Miami to get to the Playoffs, rather, they just need to take care of business of their own schedule.  The SEC, Big Ten, etc., it's the same situation with each of those teams too.

You're not going to make money playing UCF.  You are going to make money if you get to a major bowl game.  You don't need to play UCF for better recruiting.  There is absolutely no advantage for any P5 team to schedule UCF.

I did not know Danny White is on the staff.  Since when?

Danny White has been UCF's AD since 2015. 

[Jernigan]

Sports appeal to us because it's real.  The subjectivity and talk gets checked at the door.  Either you win or you don't.   In these current times of everyone being fed up with "talk" in our political and social worlds, things like sports and music still offer the ultimate put up or shut up validation.  You can't just say "I'm a great team, lots of people know I'm a great team and the teams we play are great too because that's what a lot of people tell me." ...

Unless you are the FBS division of college football.  It's the only sport where echo chambers, hype and bias outweigh what is done on the field.  

UCF will ultimately be on the better side.  We're not a the little school that could.  The enrollment, TV market, recruiting ground - it's all there.  We'll just about certainly be the next team to get an invitation to a P5 league that currently has 5 conferences with 14, 14, 14, 12 and 10 teams.  There will be room for 2-4 more or even 16 more to bring them all to 16.

But when that happens...the problem won't be fixed.  Not only because you will still have great MAC or SunBelt teams that deserve a spot and won't have the means to prove it.  But you'll also have elite teams that are left out because the subjective opinion is that the SEC or Pac 12 are somehow better that year based on "schedule" but when everyone's OOC schedule includes 3 cupcakes what they really mean is it's based on preseason hype that is usually unwarranted.

It's really a shame.  And I think what frustrates me the most isn't that the fans and stakeholder of P5 schools aren't going to bat for UCF...but rather than that they aren't going to bat for an objective system that settles it on the field.

Edited September 24, 2018 by Jernigan

[spenser1058]

Exactly. Right now it's us but it could be Boise State or Western Michigan . That's what the Final Four is all about. The Gonzagas of the world or FGCU wouldn't have a prayer in the FBS and yet we have had our own Cinderella teams.

Back when Bear Bryant was coaching Alabama I once asked if it didn't get boring just automatically knowing you'd be #1 every year. In those days before the Fun&Gun, the Gators were interesting because you always wondered when they might break through.

Of course, the Head Ball Coach ditched Gainesville when Florida fans went rabid any year he didn't deliver a perfect season.

Somehow or other, there's got to be a place for the little miracles that bubble up (yay ODU!) and reinvigorate the system.

[Jernigan]

True - and I'd add to that I don't think a little miracle is enough to get you in the playoff.  UCF shouldn't have gotten in for beating any particular team on our schedule last year.   We should have gotten in because we couldn't have done anything more.   Likewise, our title wasn't a claim that we would have won the playoff. It's a claim that the system didn't allow any other team to prove that we wouldn't. 

At the end of the day, we're all in one "Division."  There is definitely disparity despite a G5 wins over P5 teams.  I think a split is part of the solution as long as that split is objective and handled by the NCAA using the right criteria.  It's hard to stand up for entire conferences of teams that don't have any ambition to compete at the same level that UCF and Florida and Florida State all strive to compete at.   The MAC playing all of their games on Tuesdays may as well be a stunt that is pulled at the Division FCS level.    

[jrs2]

8 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Oh, I agree with you. But the problem is the SEC (more so than anyone else) insists that to be eligible for the CFP we have to improve strength of schedule. But if they won't schedule you and they do schedule UT-Martin because they know they'll win, that doesn't happen. The problem is the system is broken and the SEC is probably the conference most resistant to fixing it.

Maybe vocally, but the SEC is on CBS.  Most all the other major conferences are on ABC and ESPN.  How much marketing pull does CBS have compared to ABC and ESPN, ESPN2, ESPN(3, U, etc.)?  Not that much.  It's about  ratings and markets.  Mike Slive may talk big, but the networks control.  That's why when a team sucks, they play at noon on Saturdays, and not at 3:30pm or Prime Time.  Now add this major element into the formula with the P5 and the Playoffs.  Ratings.  Wasn't UCF's bread and butter ESPN on Thursday nights for years on end? Yeah.  So, TV ratings based on AP Poll rankings.  No one cares what the SEC thinks when it comes to this subject.  If the networks see a benefit in exploiting a specific program, they'll exploit them for $$$.  This governs bowl matchups too b/c the bowls want fans to show up.  How does UCF change this formula based on money?

Strength of schedule:  1994 Penn St.  Undefeated but shut out of the Nebraska vs Miami game.  2004 Auburn.  Undefeated and shut out of the USC vs OU game.  It's happened more times than that.  In 1984, a 9-1-1 UF team was NYT NC b/c BYU beat a lowly ranked Michigan team for the national title.  There's a lot of polls, but the theme here is that strength of schedule controlled in all of these examples, so it is very relevant.  If UCF, a newbie to 1-A (1996) is complaining about strength of schedule, then, I suggest to get in line behind programs that have existed for more than a hundred years in Division 1-A.

[jrs2]

6 hours ago, Jernigan said:

Sports appeal to us because it's real.  The subjectivity and talk gets checked at the door.  Either you win or you don't.   In these current times of everyone being fed up with "talk" in our political and social worlds, things like sports and music still offer the ultimate put up or shut up validation.  You can't just say "I'm a great team, lots of people know I'm a great team and the teams we play are great too because that's what a lot of people tell me." ...

Unless you are the FBS division of college football.  It's the only sport where echo chambers, hype and bias outweigh what is done on the field.  

UCF will ultimately be on the better side.  We're not a the little school that could.  The enrollment, TV market, recruiting ground - it's all there.  We'll just about certainly be the next team to get an invitation to a P5 league that currently has 5 conferences with 14, 14, 14, 12 and 10 teams.  There will be room for 2-4 more or even 16 more to bring them all to 16.

But when that happens...the problem won't be fixed.  Not only because you will still have great MAC or SunBelt teams that deserve a spot and won't have the means to prove it.  But you'll also have elite teams that are left out because the subjective opinion is that the SEC or Pac 12 are somehow better that year based on "schedule" but when everyone's OOC schedule includes 3 cupcakes what they really mean is it's based on preseason hype that is usually unwarranted.

It's really a shame.  And I think what frustrates me the most isn't that the fans and stakeholder of P5 schools aren't going to bat for UCF...but rather than that they aren't going to bat for an objective system that settles it on the field.

It's about money. 

Big names; traditions; ability to draw large crowds; traditions; superstar players- all of these factors come into play.  TOSU, Penn St., Michigan, UT, Texas A&M, Bama, maybe Auburn, LSU, USC- each of these schools plays in 100,000 seat stadiums.  UF seats 90k.  The weakest programs have the smallest stadiums.  UCF holds 45k.  It's existed since only 2007.  Vandy holds 40k and they're the weakest team in the SEC historically. 

The recruiting ground: I also do not see a top recruits consistently going to UCF over UF, FSU, or Miami.  Recruiting class rankings are a big deal too that carry over into the AP Poll.  

https://247sports.com/college/central-florida/Season/2015-Football/Commits/

Go to this website.  The highest ranked recruiting class UCF has mustered was in the mid 50's or mid 60's the past several years.  You are not a top program if you can't muster even a Top 20 recruiting class.  And most of the talent UCF plays against are from schools with similarly ranked recruiting classes.  Pollsters know and track this.  

Money:  UF pays Dan Mullen $6.1M/year, which makes him the 5th highest paid coach in the NCAA, for example.  Heupel gets paid $1.7M- this was similar to Spurrier's salary back in the mid-nineties.  It's 2018.  Chip Kelly, a new hire at UCLA, is getting $5-6M/yr.  UCF has an 11 year old  small stadium, lowly ranked recruiting classes, limited funds to hire great coaches (was it Frost, or was it Milton?), and only a 22 year history in Div. 1-A,  UCF for the most part IS the little school that could.  The TV market of Orlando isn't UCF's TV market.  That's not how that works.  Auburn is in a small town with maybe two traffic lights and they have a huge TV market.  So does FSU which is only in small Tallahassee.  Same with UF.  The enrollment doesn't mean anything either.  It doesn't make the school better or more relevant- but it's a start.  If enrollment meant something, then where's all the money?

Competing in Florida:  Well, when you say "ultimately" then you may be correct- but when?   USF got some good momentum several years back but because they're a newer team, they crashed and burned when Leavitt left and are struggling.  The Big East dismantling was devastating to their program momentum- but it allowed UCF to move into a conference better than the one it was in- but not by much.  UCF got to the "Big East" but the ACC, Big 12, and Big Ten had other ideas, and neither UCF nor USF were part of those plans.  Why weren't they then, why not now, and will they be in the future?  

Again, it's about money, and UCF doesn't have enough of it.  

And, fans or supporters of a system that settles it on the field did go to bat for a change, which is why you had a change in 1995, the formation of the BCS in 1998, and the Playoff in 2014.  It's been an ongoing thing.  Let's not crucify everyone just b/c pollsters don't put more clout in UCF in the polls.  If UCF wants a more objective system, then transfer back down to Div. 1-AA and go to the playoff like it used to.  But you can't crash a party and then demand that the host give you a drink.  That ain't how it works.

[spenser1058]

Meanwhile, our poor little program has sent 41 players so far to the NFL draft and we are the highest ranked team in Florida for several weeks running. Charge on!

Edited September 25, 2018 by spenser1058

[Jernigan]

Those numbers really showcase what UCF is doing with lesser recruits and money.   Pretty crazy to think of the playing field were even - maybe we would BE the next Alabama

[spenser1058]

Another interesting thought comes from an argument made when Scott Frost was debating the jump to Nebraska. It was suggested that a school like Nebraska was going to be largely irrelevant going forward as a slow growth, snowy  state like that would have a harder and harder time attracting recruits from fast-growing Sunbelt areas (like Florida.) It will be interesting to see how much  a charismatic coach like Frost can overcome the geography .

It also got me to thinking about our legacy schools. FSU and UF are in the slowest-growing part of the state, where the culture is much different than the one so many prized recruits from our urban areas are used to. If the primary goal for these guys is to go on to the NFL and a school like UCF has demonstrated we can get them there, will the north Florida schools have more trouble recruiting the best players going forward?

It seems like at least a valid question. As UCF, USF and now even FAU become more successful, is it mere coincidence that UF and FSU are sliding? Since the newer schools will only gain more resources over time, how does that affect not only football but also higher education in Florida?

One micro example to show the change: once upon a time, if you had political aspirations in Florida, you pretty much had to be a member of Florida Blue Key at UF. Not only is that no longer the case, no one even really noticed when it happened. Such are the things we miss in a rapidly-growing dynamic state.

Edited September 25, 2018 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

Bianchi on Scott Frost's move to 'Husker Country:

Does he regret it: Yep.

If he had a do-over, would he still do it? Yep.

Let's just hope KZ or Blake feel the same way one day.

http://bit.ly/2DruNmw

From the Sentinel 

Edited September 25, 2018 by spenser1058

[jrs2]

On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 7:46 AM, Jernigan said:

Those numbers really showcase what UCF is doing with lesser recruits and money.   Pretty crazy to think of the playing field were even - maybe we would BE the next Alabama

true... I think they do a much better job of player development than, for instance, UF has, the past several years.  I salute them for that.  

On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 7:25 AM, spenser1058 said:

Meanwhile, our poor little program has sent 41 players so far to the NFL draft and we are the highest ranked team in Florida for several weeks running. Charge on!

well, you saw what happened to Miami when they played LSU... that being said, Old Dom did beat Va Tech... so...

[AndyPok1]

Many many things since I last opened this topic, and I don't feel like multi-quoting so here comes rambling thoughts.

As someone that went to Ohio State, I have my biases, but I'm a strange sports fan in that I'm able to be very objective.  With that said, the first time I stepped onto UCF's campus for a game back in 2012, I was in.  I *LOVE* the fact that there *AREN'T* traditions yet.  It's so cool that everyone is getting to develop these that are gonna be passed down.  Is it the experience I would have wanted as a college student?  No.  But is it super cool to see?  Yes.

UCF has quickly become my Number 2 school.  I try to go to at least one game a year when it doesn't overlap with travels or a Buckeye game, and of course I go to as many tailgates as possible (gotta keep my reputation on these boards, right?).  Last Friday was my one for the year, and it was so heartening to see such a filled stadium.  When I started going years ago, seat and section didn't matter.  A group I know all has seats "around" each other, but everyone was just standing together.  Not anymore.  Now after TDs, to celebrate, they have to go up and down the row because all the seats are filled.

I'm a bit of a purist.  To me, the original BCS that got changed after the undefeated Auburn season in 04 was the best.  40% human judgement, 40% objectivity, 20% "quality" wins.  College Football is meant to be hard.  I don't like playoffs.  They introduce too much "luck".  I was a history major, I don't really like the concept of "Any Given Sunday".  To me, the Patriots are the 07 champions.  18-1 > 13-7.

Bashing on UF for UT-Martin is silly.  There's PLENTY of P5 teams to rag on for SoS, but UF and FSU aren't in that group.  They have a premiere OOC game every year.  You shouldn't be expected to have 2 when playing in a P5 conference.  In fact, that's basically asking to lose games.  People may not like the "cupcake" games, but remember.  There is no preseason in College Football.  Playing a premiere game in week one is downright stupid in my mind.

Yeah, it isn't UCF's fault they have a hard time scheduling.  It's a stupid argument to make.

The biggest thing that screwed UCF was the NCAA granting a waiver to allow the Big 12 to have a Conf Champ game with only 10 teams.  Had that waiver not been issued, the Big 12 would HAVE to expand to remain competitive... and the short list is basically UCF / USF / Memphis / Cinci / Boise.

It's unfortunate things went the way they did, but keep being awesome and eventually the glass ceiling will break.