520 Church St. | 12-Story Residential [Under Construction]

[prahaboheme]

Brick streets are a defining character of downtown Orlando and the environs. 

Boston and Philly aren’t ripping up cobblestone streets in the name of progress. 

I would hate to see yet another element of Orlando eliminated because its “more convenient.”

[Camillo Sitte]

On 12/28/2019 at 6:13 PM, Jvest55 said:

Living in downtown the brick is nice to look at, from afar, but to drive on it just doesn't make any sense. I don't know how many of you have been to real historic cities, such as London, who hardly even have brick anymore and nobody even cares. Time for Orlando to get over our "historic bricks" and move on to modern times. Ever drive on these brick roads in the pouring rain in rush hour? 

I would be happy if the city would just maintain them properly. 

The only reason for the suspension-destroying potholes in the brick streets in downtown and  surrounding neighborhoods is intentional neglect resulting from an unwillingness to spend the money necessary to maintain them.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Camillo Sitte

[spenser1058]

The thing is, they weren’t originally a problem. After the asphalt was removed, the bricks were taken up and the foundation leveled and smoothed and then the bricks replaced. That was ok.

Then, the mania kicked in. A machine was obtained which simply removed the asphalt and the bricks just left as they were. Those are the roads that are a mess now.

Also, Mariposa was redone using a process that made the bricks as smooth as pavement. It was a wonder until it got torn up for construction.

But you’re absolutely right. The problem is maintenance. This administration simply has other priorities. 

[codypet]

7 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

The thing is, they weren’t originally a problem. After the asphalt was removed, the bricks were taken up and the foundation leveled and smoothed and then the bricks replaced. That was ok.

Then, the mania kicked in. A machine was obtained which simply removed the asphalt and the bricks just left as they were. Those are the roads that are a mess now.

Also, Mariposa was redone using a process that made the bricks as smooth as pavement. It was a wonder until it got torn up for construction.

But you’re absolutely right. The problem is maintenance. This administration simply has other priorities. 

What machine did Curry Ford Road west of Bumby?  Those are smooth as silk.

[spenser1058]

8 minutes ago, codypet said:

What machine did Curry Ford Road west of Bumby?  Those are smooth as silk.

I haven’t been on it. It sounds like it may have been the newer process like Mariposa. I’ll check it out.

[jack]

Remember Summerlin was redone by Lake Davis a few years back. And it still has potholes. 

[spenser1058]

3 minutes ago, jack said:

Remember Summerlin was redone by Lake Davis a few years back. And it still has potholes. 

Indeed. Street maintenance is a basic part of the job description for mayors. Unfortunately, such things are too “small potatoes” for this administration.

[nite owℓ]

6 hours ago, codypet said:

What machine did Curry Ford Road west of Bumby?  Those are smooth as silk.

That small stretch is a perfect example that bricks can be installed in high traffic areas AND withstand the daily abuse of trucks, buses and cars:

In 2018, total EB/WB traffic on Curry Ford between Bumby and Fern Creek: 8,700 (9,400 at its highest in 2016).

In 2018, total EB/WB traffic on Marks St between Mills and Highland: 1,600 (3,400 at its highest in 2016).

As JFW mentioned, the drive experience will be determined by the installation method and the type of bricks that are used. There is a science to it... I remember watching a video that explained different types/methods of road brickwork used where even something as little as a rounded edge on bricks will affect drive quality, but I can't find it now. Cities will factor in multiple necessities to be met when using certain bricks in specific areas. I believe the CF bricks are more squared off instead of rounded. I haven't driven on Park Ave in it's entirety in a while, but it has also held up pretty well over the years IMO. Bumpy (arguably to control traffic speed), but I've never noticed any potholes.

 

4 hours ago, jack said:

Remember Summerlin was redone by Lake Davis a few years back. And it still has potholes. 

I'd consider it more of a hodgepodge mixture of both new and old brickwork rather than saying it was completely redone because they only added brick in certain areas while leaving existing problem areas unaddressed. The existing bricks on Summerlin from Woodlawn to Cherokee Dr were not replaced, unfortunately. I guess it was outside of the scope of the project. Once the drainage project was complete, they only replaced the portion previously covered with asphalt from the pedestrian crosswalk near Cherokee Dr down to Briercliff. I haven't noticed any new potholes on that stretch, but I have noticed a few bricks bricks are now missing where mixed materials are joined. More recently, the city replaced curbing and several feet of bricks in the street (on Lake Davis Dr) in proximity to the ROW around the lake due to complaints about crumbling curbs and missing bricks from tree roots etc., but again, the entire street was not redone either.

Advocating for the elimination of brick roads just because they are being neglected seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. IMO the positives of brick roads outweigh the negatives: Traffic calming, potential for increased property values, aesthetically pleasing and they are very durable. "The upside is that brick streets don’t break down as often, and they can last a century. Asphalt roads rarely last more than 20 years before they need a total resurfacing."

Edited December 30, 2019 by nite owℓ

[dcluley98]

As a transplant, the brick roads around the downtown neighborhoods have been one of the more charming features that I experienced when first moving here. 

I thought it was odd at first, but quickly got used to it and I admire them more now that I have been here for  a while. 

[spenser1058]

It’s rather hilarious in that piece that Jessie Garcia says in their preservation program they haven’t seen any bricks that needed replacing in the past 10 years. Jessie is apparently leaving City Hall to hop on Anderson St or head down Orange Ave. every day because it’s clear he hasn’t been on Marks or Summerlin in the last ten years.

This city has gotten like a reading of Voltaire’s Candide: “all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds”. I guess the “ultimate” in the I4 project simply means everything going on right now is simply the “ultimate case of traffic calming”. Look how much we’ve slowed everything down. This is Progress!

The same budget cuts in Parks which cut out the flowers Orlando had been famous for over decades no doubt were an improvement because, after all, some folks are just allergic to flowers!

Animal Farm, indeed.

[smileguy]

58 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

The same budget cuts in Parks which cut out the flowers Orlando had been famous for over decades no doubt were an improvement because, after all, some folks are just allergic to flowers!

As the city pursues aggressive sustainability goals, continued planting and maintenance of annuals has fallen out of fashion as priorities have shifted to native plants and plantings that require less irrigation, fertilizer, etc. 

http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-planning/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2014/03/LandscapeCodeFinal2013-12-09.pdf

[JFW657]

5 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Indeed. Street maintenance is a basic part of the job description for mayors. Unfortunately, such things are too “small potatoes” for this administration.

You certainly do seem to have yourself a hate-on for Buddy Dyer.

As I recall, having been a 15 year resident of Thornton Park myself (pre-Dyer), the old brick streets around here were no better maintained under previous mayors.  

[JFW657]

19 minutes ago, smileguy said:

As the city pursues aggressive sustainability goals, continued planting and maintenance of annuals has fallen out of fashion as priorities have shifted to native plants and plantings that require less irrigation, fertilizer, etc. 

http://www.cityoforlando.net/city-planning/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2014/03/LandscapeCodeFinal2013-12-09.pdf

If haven't already done so, next time you're in the vicinity of the OC Admin Ctr, the native flowering plant garden on the corner of Rosalind and Jackson (right behind the brick wall sign) is worth taking a quick stroll through...

Each plant has a tag with it's common and scientific name as well as other info.

[AmIReal]

1 hour ago, JFW657 said:

If haven't already done so, next time you're in the vicinity of the OC Admin Ctr, the native flowering plant garden on the corner of Rosalind and Jackson (right behind the brick wall sign) is worth taking a quick stroll through...

Each plant has a tag with it's common and scientific name as well as other info.

I used a stroll thru there to select plants for some business properties I was sprucing up a few years ago. Much more helpful then the help I was getting at big box garden center.

[nite owℓ]

On 10/21/2019 at 1:34 PM, gibby said:

Paraphrasing.  It's very disappointing.  They had to get construction plan approval after ARB approval and the construction plans are supposed to match the ARB plans but somehow the construction plans were approved without the brownstones.  I'm going to research it some more although I shouldn't because it just gets me mad.  I wish we could do something to fix this.  These units would have livened up that stretch of Mariposa so it would not have looked just like Mariposa near 420.

Any luck finding out addtl info? It feels like a bait and switch tactic to subvert public objection. Were the changes approved because 520 is not located within the CBD?

[gibby]

No, I gave up.  The City was not being very forthcoming with info so I gave up.

[AmIReal]

27 minutes ago, gibby said:

No, I gave up.  The City was not being very forthcoming with info so I gave up.

Did you ask you commissioner for an answer? I generally find them to be very responsive.

[gibby]

No.  I've tried getting help from her office in the past and was very disappointed.

[Jvest55]

We should send a tip to a local news agency and let their employees do the digging

[bqknight]

[Jvest55]

Appears that the brackets for the HVAC units are going up. Glad I am not facing these as it's gonna be truly ugly to look down at when it's done. Also note, some structure circled in yellow. No idea what that is, but it seems tall and big. 

[bqknight]

6 minutes ago, Jvest55 said:

Appears that the brackets for the HVAC units are going up. Glad I am not facing these as it's gonna be truly ugly to look down at when it's done. Also note, some structure circled in yellow. No idea what that is, but it seems tall and big. 

It's a feature of the building I believe. Just decoration. Have to think that it's the buildings highest point. 

[JFW657]

47 minutes ago, bqknight said:

It's a feature of the building I believe. Just decoration. Have to think that it's the buildings highest point. 

[Jvest55]

Ah thanks. That makes sense. Nice covering for wasps and birds to make their home. 

[gibby]

It filled in the gap a bit.  There's still a few gaps to go though.